This is my brother's SC deer he shot this morning at 20 yards with a 300 SAUM and Nosler ballistic tips that I loaded for him. I guess the only thing the bullet failed to do was lift the deer up into his carrier. Because it sure killed the %$&* out of the deer. Passed through. Didn't blow up on the onside shoulder. Again, range was only 20 yards. It is a nice looking little buck with a double white throat patch. He reminded me on the phone awhile ago that every deer he has killed with a rifle since the late 80's except one has been with ballistic tips. Our results have always been a recovered deer.

Great Post!

You don't see very many Whitetails w/ a Double Patch. That would make an interesting mount.

Good Luck!

Reloader

I'm ABSOLUTELY NOT trying to be a wise ass here but......Tell me that normally your brother has shots at ranges longer than 20 yds. Just trying to wonder why the bullet make or model would even be a factor at 20 yds. OR why you would need ANY magnum cartridge other than maybe a .222 Magnum.

FN

Last year I took a SC doe with a 300 RSAUM and 165 gr factory ammo. The range was 40 yds. The exit hole was as large as a soft ball. The guys I was with gave me a lot of grief, said That I should have shot it in the belly, that way no one would have had to gut it.
This year I went back with a 5X57. Killed them just as dead with much less damage.

Hey Doc, I am right with you there. We have way to many does in Ga. anyway, and I'd rather kill another doe than worrying about meat damage in the shoulder area, or neck or ribs for that matter. A clean kill is my only goal, meat damage isn't a factor for me at all either. As I have stated before, I have had tremendous success with BT's on Ga., Texas, and Canadian whitetails--(from medium size to pretty big ones)It is good to know your real world experience dispells the statements about high velocity impacts at short range not providing good performance with BT's!
Regards--Don.

Well, quite frankly, when I spend money on hunting clubs, nonres. licenses, etc., and deer tags out the wazzoo, I hunt to kill. In fact, I get a bit frustrated after a few days of hard hunting, rain or shine, and I haven't pulled a trigger or released and arrow. It's fun to play sports but it's better to win now and then. I realize there are plenty of hunters out there that 'meat hunt' but I'm not one of them (meat only). The meat to me is a nice bonus, and I always make sure it is utilized. My family consumes about 4-6 deer per year. We donate to needy families here, I pay for the processing. I've never had a family call me up and bitch about a lack of shoulder or rib meat or neck meat.

That is what the grocery store is for. I'll go buy a rib-eye if I want shoulder meat.

I killed a 150 class whitetail a few years ago. Hit him right where I was aiming, IN THE SHOULDER. Dropped him where he stood. Another hunter at the check station teased a bit about what a waste of good meat. The teasing went on while Game and Fish checked my tag. Then he acted a bit ticked and wouldn't shut up about it.

After about 4-5 minutes I told him that it was getting old. He said I needed a lesson on bullet placement. At that point I almost told him to FUCK OFF. (I usually don't put that in writing). I told him that I made a perfect hit at over 300 yards and the half a pound of meat damage was worth a trophy on the wall, worth the 10 hour drive, worth the $350 hotel bill, worth the $250 in gas, worth the $125 nonres tag, etc.

Then I looked at his small 6 point buck, told him he needed a lesson on how to field judge a buck, needed to learn how to shoot since both the entry and exit hole were in the paunch, needed to learn that if you want a bigger buck, you need to let the little ones walk, etc.

He said, "I'm a meat hunter." I replied, "then shoot a doe, dumbass. They're a dime a dozen here and the DNR issued special tags since there are so many. You just shot a buck that could have been a real trophy for someone in a couple of years."
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Meat hunting is fine, but I do both. Trophy hunting is my priority, and when a buck I want to shoot presents a kill shot from any angle, he's going down. I don't care if the exit hole looks like you could throw a frickin football through it.

Doc, all I can say is Amen Brother. Others might slam but I am absolutely right there with you!

Hi Doc!

Nice buck. Glad that the BT worked well.

Canuck posted our photos of the Accubonds that we recovered from our deer on the ACCUBOND FAILED thread. Should make for more concrete evidence.

Doc
Just where on the shoulder do you find rib/eye
That must be a strange deer & I sure wish we had some here in Texas

My butcher told me that the rib-eye steak comes from the meat between the shoulder and ribs. Anatomically speaking, it may be the subscapularis muscle. I'm not sure.

Correct, we used Win. Factory ammo (the two in the photos), my other friend used Federal Factory ammo.

Nosler mentioned that they will run a test on the lot number for our ammo- I assume to see if there might be any QC or defect issues. They did mention that the bullet on the left should not have performed like it did, even though it hit major bone.

Cheers,

CL

the accubond bond worked perfect for me the last 2 days.

doc i liked what you said about meat hunting. next wee ill be out a few times to wack'em and stack'em.

Hey Sask, let us know how you do.

OMG Doc I cant believe thiers someone else out there like me. Dont get me wrong I use every bit of meat from the game I take but am pretty tired about hearing dumba$$ comments about meat damage because of the bullet I use. Id rather have a little damaged shoulder meat than a lost animal and in the past 20+ years that hasnt happened once. Dont wanna damage any meat shoot it in the head because regardless of the bullet used youre bound to damage some meat.

Maybe should post some HP Failures too!

Well, it appears there are a few of us that belive the quicker the kill, the less pain is inflicted on the animals we hunt. When I go out (just my opinion) I want the critter dead, period. And if it happens to drop in it's tracks from the massive damage the BT's do, then I (fat, and lazy) don't run the risk of losing a fine animal to the yotes out here. Why in the world would any one be upset over the loss of a little rib meat?
And that is a slick double patch, congrats!

UltraMag and acsteele:

Thanks for the replies. I've had a few private messages regarding the whole 'meat wasted' post I did and seems to me that there are more people that share my views than I thought. Regardless there is always someone out there that will cause a fuss because our bullets actually took about 4-7 ounces of good meat with them. Woopee fuckin doo.

I can see my next discussion with a sarcastic asshole at the next check station when he sees what my 300 Ultra Mag with a 200 Accubond does to a deer at 80 yards. And BTW, I will be in Missouri on the 19th! Probably something like:

"Hey, good deer, too bad you blood shot out his shoulder and wasted all that good meat. You need to put your bullet behind the shoulder. What are you shootin? A cannon?" (I say this is a likely scenario because I hear it every year).

"Yea dickhead, in fact I am. I tell you what else I need to do, I need to plant my fuckin foot in your crotch and and make you sing, sweet Jesus, show me mercy. Keep telling me how to hunt and where to put bullets and bitchin about a half a pound of wasted meat and I might just demonstrate how good a shot I am on your fuckin tires, got it bitch?!!"

I still stand by my position on meat, if you are a self proclaimed "meat hunter" then you should shoot does especially where available. And keep your fuckin mouth shut if someone brings a real trophy to a check station and half his body is missing. It AIN'T YOUR BUSINESS. That prick at the check station in Missouri that I brought up also said, "I won't shoot a doe, it's just not right." I failed to mention that.

I spend quite a bit of money to go on my hunts and I don't do it because I want to go to Lowe's a buy 3 more chest freezers and stock up with meat. I'm not rich either so all the gas, flights, hotels, etc. add up...so I won't beg the hunting Gods for forgiveness when I do my best to put a game animal down on the spot.

I do it because I want my taxidermist to be my BUDDY! I like looking around my house and my dad's house at my trophies because it really brings back the memory of that hunt...every aspect of it, and that is something I really enjoy.

OH, and if anyone has noticed my bad bad potty mouth lately and you are a bit offended, I apologize. My liberal mother in law just moved in to my basement 4 days before Nov. 2, and I've not heard any plans of her leaving anytime soon, in fact, my wife carpeted the basement while I was in WY and CO . NUFF SAID.

Mother-in law in the basement? Dear god, if you need place to hide, I can put you up for a while! It's too late for out of state buck tags, but I could put you on "trophy does"

Or, you could bring mom in law along, I have a buddy building a pond. Ah, not that I'm suggesting anything but.......

To everybody else:

I have never responded to posts when they appear to get out of hand--but there is always a first time.

To Doc:

First you write that you have killed a 100+ deer.

Then you speculate the ribeye is on the shoulder--sorry, wrong end of the deer (the deer is the big furry thing wearing them antlers).

Then you engage in inflammatory/vulgar language in several posts.

Doc, you've got no credibility with me.

As an occasional guide for several outfitters here in the Southern Rockies, Doc is precisely the kind of client that makes us guides roll our eyes and wish we hadn't hired on for the season.

Casey Chipman--Western Slope of Colorado

You can kill a deer a day in Alabama and I lived there for 27 years. The number is probably more like 150 or 200, get over it. Sorry to have offended you. I've also been fortunate enough to take deer in Iowa and Missouri for 5 years, South Carolina, where the season opens August 15th, Ohio, Kansas, and AZ. Sorry you find it so hard to believe that I hunt very hard and try to fill my tags. Please tell me you do not believe me just because you haven't killed that many.



And if you had read the thread, I stated that a butcher told me where the rib-eye was, I clearly stated I wasn't sure.



Inflammatory language, you are right, and I apologized then too for being offensive.



In terms of you rolling your eyes and wishing you hadn't hired on as a guide because of clients like me, well, you don't know me. All you know is what I've written on a few threads discussing a particular subject that really ticks me off. I'll call up a few of the guides I've used in the past and see if they were heartbroken when I gave them those $700-$1000 dollar tips even when I didn't kill anything. I'll also ask them why they continue to call me 4-7 times per year asking if I plan on coming back.



As far as me having any credibility with you, I do not care. Perhaps your abilities as a guide are subpar and that is why you only do it on occasion.



Oh, and finally, let me guess, you are probably one of those guys that complains when some meat is ruined, right?

Oh, and I forgot, Colorado and Wyoming.

Doc,goobers come in all shapes and sizes.
But the offer sill stands, I mean who knows whats UNDER a pond?

I think we ought to plan an Elk hunt sometime, after all, my hunting buddy is an attourny, and two divorces are as cheap as one!

yea, OK...where do you want to elk hunt? Just to let you know, I will be putting in for limited entry in WY, over the counter for CO, limited entry for the San Juan unit in southern UTAH, and anything after that is fine with me.



Any suggestions, or do you have a favorite place?



I'd really like to hunt in Montana sometime.



By the way, I'll be in Kansas near Garnett to hunt whitetails in December, wanna get a beer?

I hunt for meat and horns. Mostly meat because that is what ends up in my crosshairs most often. In case you figure I have no selectivity on my part, I let a basket racked 8 point walk 3 weeks ago and let a nice 10 point walk last weekend.(We have a gentlemans agreement to only take one buck a year and I killed a really nice 8 point on opening day). I will however take what shots are given. I prefer to hit bone. I prefer to tear up some running gear in some fashion. They don't make as many tracks before expiring. I prefer to send as many secondary projectiles, ie bone fragments, riddling the heart/lung area as is possible. How much meat do I lose? How much meat did I lose if I didn't shoot. Or didn't recover the deer. Where I hunt it is thick and swampy. Lung shot deer sometimes make a surprising number of tracks. In the water the blood trail is tough to track. There are thickets that will litterally tear the clothes off of you. Lost deer are not uncommon even with good shot placement. I will make a swap and lose a double handful of tough shoulder meat for 40-50 pounds of good steak and backstrap any time. Does beware!

10-4 Doc anytime. Good hunting and I hope you make some venison every time you go out.