I have a Savage 99F in .308 and have considered, for a long time, having it rebarreled to .358 Win. I will be using it to hunt Whitetail and Black Bear in the thick woods of the Adirondack Mtns of NY and for Elk in the timber out in CO. My question is should I leave it alone or will the .358 Win give me a lot more performance for the bigger animals? Keep in mind that shots will not be longer than 250 yards, mostly 100 yards or less. Also, I am looking for your experiences with the .358 Win; up to what size animals has it been use on; with what bullets/velocities. Thank you....RW

I don't have any experience with the .308, it's not one of my favorite cartridges; however,the .358 is a different story. I have had great success with the .358, taking coyotes, mule deer, wild pig, and black bear. I use 225 gr Sierra boattials exclusively. None never took more than a few steps, most dropped like the rug was pulled out from under them. Most shots between 25-150 yds. I don't know if the 308 would have worked just as well, but I do know that the .358 drops them like they were hit with Thor's hammer. The .358 is just a great all-purpose round that is really underated.

[ 01-18-2003, 04:40: Message edited by: DOCTOR LOU ]

I have shot a 99F in .358 Win since 1966. About then I learned how to hunt deer. Before that I had got them but only because they walked in front of me. So that rifle is my sentimental favorite.

I think that that cartridge has more effect on deer up to at least 200 yards than the common standard ones. I have experiance with the 7MM Rem Mag, 30/06 and other similar cartridges and I lump them together. They are good enough.

So having more effect may not be necessary but it satisfies me.

This is a exact story of how much confidence I have it it over the run of the mill rounds. I was standing in a snow covered forest with a view at best of 75 yards. I was leaning against a tree and waiting it out as it was the best spot that I knew on that hill in VT. After a while I put the rifle (Pre64 M70 Featherweight-150 Corelokts-3X9 Leu) against the tree as it was getting heavy. All of a sudden a buck was walking up the steep hill right at me. We spotted each other at the same time as he was about 40 yards away. He stepped behind a very large double trunked oak before I could mount the 308 and his rump was sticking out one side and his head the other. He had the biggest rack that I have ever seen in 40 years so I was a little worked up to say the least. All I could think of was that if I had the .358 I would have shot him in the ass. It would have been over! The head shot was almost impossible as he kept moving his head.

Finally he ran for it and I made five bad shots. I hit that deer everywhere and it went down.

That's why I carry the .358 when I am thinking.

If I rebarreled a 99 I would get a 20" and not a 22" bbl and put a little more meat on it than the Featherweight has.

DocLou and Savage99, thanks for your replies. Savage99, how much difference is there in preceived recoil between the .308 and .358? With the slip on recoil pad that my 99F has, even my 15 year old daughter has no problem with it using 165 grain Lt Mag .308 Loads. I know recoil differs for everyone, but I'm just looking for a general thought. Thanks...RW

Will the 358 feed, or even go in to a rotary mag designed for the 308?

The 250 gr bullet in the .358 Win seems to kick like heck. I have been shooting the 180 gr now at 2700 fps for about 20 years and it's about the same as a 308 or 30/06 as far as recoil goes.

There are recoil calculators on the net where you could calculate recoil energy and velocity.

Don't kid yourself. If you shoot the heavier bullets this cartridge is going to kick hard.

I keep telling everyone not to pull a good barrel on a rifle just to change the caliber. So I have to repeat that advice here. Of course it's only money and hundreds of dollars and not thousands like cars cost.

I fell into the three 358's that I have one at a time. I saw a BLR for sale here in CT last fall in .358Win for $450 and a M88 for about $1100.

I read that Browning is running some more BLRs right now in .358 Win. I don't buy jap rifles but many do.

I bought a Savage M99 in .358 a few years ago with the intent of using it for CA pig hunting with 225-grain Nosler Partitions. This particular gun never shot better than about 2.5" groups at 100 yards with several loads I tried, so I eventually sold it off (the buyer had more patience with load development and is very happy with it as his Florida pig gun).

I recently stumbled across a Win M88 that was originally in .308 and rebored to .358. It's accurate for a few shots, but because the barrel walls are rather thin after the reboring, it starts to wander with extended shooting strings. That's not a factor in hunting, of course, so it should full the role I originally envisioned for the Savage M99. The M88 also handles better for me.

Ravenwolf, to my mind the recoil from my Sako 358 with a 23" bbl., is similar to that of my 280; it's not bad at all, even from the bench. I can't speak about the 99, but I don't think it's much worse than the 308. If there is a slight increase with the 358, it's worth itIMHO. I think you will be happy with the 358 over the 308.

I've owned a 99 in .358. I currently own and use two .308's.
There won't be much difference. If you need more penetration, go with the premium bullets. If you were using a 165 gr. premium bullet, I guarantee that rump shot one of the other posters spoke of would have been no problem. I've used the Nosler Partition alot. Excellent choice. I'm currently using the 168 gr. Barnes XLC or the Federal factory loaded 165 gr. Throphy Bonded ammo. Both as good as it gets. Even for the elk class stuff.
BTW, don't use the High Energy, or Lt. Magnum ammo in the 99. They really aren't needed anyway. E

Great responses everyone. Keep them coming. I know the .308 will work for Elk but would the .358 do better? Or is the difference between the two not enough to justify the change? Good Shooting....RW

The 358 is the prefect savage 99 round. I love the 358, and have a 99, a mex mauser, and a 1903 that I've built into 358. NOTHING walks away from it, and a 225 at 2500 is perfect for anything in NA.

jeffe

LE270
The rotary configuration appears to be less forgiving than a clip, I wonder if anyone has both chamberings, and could try it?

There is a website that deals with the 99's. The topic of rechambering to 358 win has come up seceral times. It is not as easy as switching a barrel. The rotary follower is very precise. You will either have to machine the one that is for the 308 to acepyt the 358 (Very difficult) or find a follower that is for a 358 and switch it out.(not much easier!) The best bet is toi use the rifle as is.

The 358 and 308, as said earlier, are the same case. Why would one feed but not the other???

Both are about equal in killing power..Having used both I think I prefer the .308 with 180 or 200 gr. bullets.

I had a lot of bullet problems years ago with the 358 but I suspect the monlithics and the 225 gr. Nosler have solved that problem...Most bullets in the 60's and 70's were for 35 Rem and were just too soft back then...

Both are fine calibers any way you cut it. the 308 ranges better.

I'm getting into this discussion a little late, but my last project is right on this topic. I wanted a dedicated cast bullet shooter, that would give me a little more power than a 30-30 in a handy bush gun. I decided the caliber was to be .358Win. I didn't want the 12" twist in the Model 99 as I felt it would stress the lead & raise pressures needlessly & a 16" twist will stabilize anything up to & including 250grs. I had a Savage 99E in .308 that I didn't really need, & decided it would be the basis of the project. The guy who did the rebore told me he insisted on .100" of barrel metal per side after reboring & my barrel would leave .116", so it finished quite light. I lost 1/2" of barrel, so now it's 191/2". I do have to space my shots after the first 2 or 3 since the barrel is so light, but the guy did an excellent job on the rebore & 250gr cast bullets @ 1900'/s into 2" @ 100yds. is no problem. The change to .358 from .308 required now magazine or feed work at all. It's a job I'd highly recommend. I've yet to shoot a condom bullet in this gun, but if I ever felt the need to really reach out there, I think I'd try the 200gr. G.S. Custom with a BC of .418 @ around 2600'/s. My primary purpose for this gun is black bear & deer in fairly close cover, but it's not just a brush gun. Hope this helps a little. Ron.D

Well, I have four rifles in .358 Win. Two Ruger 77's, a BLR and a newly acquired Savage 99. One Ruger is a tackdriver with anything I put in it, the other so so. It's very fussy about ammo. The BLR shot all over the place until I free floated the forearm. Now it rattles slightly but will do .50 to .75" with Winchester 200 gr. factory ammo. The Savage shot 1.0" groups with factaory ammo and 1.25" with the 250 gr. Hornady RN.
Recoil is subjective of course, but the 200 gr. loads seem quite mild to me and the 250 gr. loads, while a bit stout are not that uncomfortable.
In the past couple of years, I've taken a great interest in 35 caliber rifle. In addition to the .358's, I also have three rifles in .35 Whelen and just swapped for a pre-Microgroove Marlin in .35 Rem.
As far as rifling twist goes, I agree with gunmaker Sterling Davenport. He feel the fastest standard twist is the correct way to go. I shoot mostly cast bullets and the 1 in 12" of the Savage and BLR haven't been a problem, ever with the 280 Lyman 2589. (Actually from a custom mold by david Mos duplicating lYman's heavy bullet, which they now refuse to make and sell, regardless of the demand. A group of us went in on the mold and we had a slight change made to the design. The Lyman bullet is a round nose, and we had a small flat placed on the nose to incease shock effect slightly.
There is an excellent two part article on the .358 Win. by Paco Kelly at (www.sixgunner.com). He loads hotter than the hinges of hell, but it's still a good read.
I haven't taken any game with the .358 yet. Drawing tags for game in this state is getting harder all the time, and with the dought, game was scarce last year and if we don't get some real rain soon, will be a lot worse next fall.
According to a game warden I talked to, most of the elk in the northern part of the stat did not even go into a rut this year. Looks like elk tags will be real scarce. The few deer I saw taken were either forked horns, but mostly spikes. One friend did get a very spindly 3 point (western count) and a friend in Nevada saw very few decent racks and ha to settle for a 3 point as well on the last day of the season. Not much chance to try the .358 out.
Paul B.

I don't agree with Ray Atkinson that the 308 Win is even in the same class with the 358 Win in terms of putting game on the ground. Nor do I agree that the 200 gr Silvertip is too soft for medium sized thin skinned game. I think it's just right in fact and I used it by choice for twenty five years.

I don't even think the .308 Win has more range. Less drop yes but the first thing to go is the energy and at 300 yards right from Nolser 5 the 200 gr Partition in a 308 has 1873 fpe and the 225 Partition out of a .358 Win has 1901 fpe! Thus the "range" contest goes to the .358 Win and at closer range there is no contest.

To add since I did all the calculations. With a 200 yd zero for each round the 308 is 9.3" low at 300 yds and the 358 is 10.1. Since the .358 bullet is .020" larger in radius you can call that drop 9.9"

[ 01-21-2003, 20:55: Message edited by: Savage 99 ]

In the 358 I have found the following bullets do not open up:

200 grain Hornday spire point
250 grain Hornday spire point
250 grain Speer spire point

And the following opened up wonderfully:

225 grain Woodleigh round nose.

I am pulling all my 358 bullets and reloading all my cases with Woodleighs.

Before rebarreling a savage 99 to 358, be sure that 358's will feed from that rotary magazine. Getting a rotary magazine to feed is a lost art.

Thanks for the replies. So far it looks like its the .358 Win for the Savage 99, if the .308 can be converted without having to work on the rotary magazine. This will have to become a spring project as I'm going to be getting a T/C Contender barrel in 444 Marlin soon. I'll have to find a couple .358 Win cartridges to see if they will fit and start to feed from the mag. Then if all goes well decide either to rebarrel or rebore....RW

Ravenwolf

I just went back and checked the information that was on the savage 99 website. Apparently The issue about the Rotary follower being a problem is only with the older99s. I am not sure when the cut off date is. The one I have was made in 1936. At this point I think they were still hand made. Mine has a brass follower that is machined closely to the dimensions of the 300 savage it is chambered for. I am sure that it would need to be worked on if I ever decided to convert it. Mine will stay as a 300,purely because I like it! They are great guns, and great deals at the momment. You can pick up EGs in 300 savage for about $300 if you look. The 358s and 250s are always exspensive for a good one.