Hey all, I'm looking for some scope recommendations for a Remington model 700 Springfield 30-06 that my father owns. He used a core lock 180 grain bullet for deer, 150 for varmints...and says it shot extremely well.

He used to have a Leupold 2-7x33(?) VX-II on it, but I took it off to put it on his ML...since he/I didn't hunt with HP rifles at all anymore.

The primary hunting will be for whitetails in the Northeast (PA and NY), and a trip I have planned to go out to Wyoming on a deer (whitetail or mule) hunt next season.

I've never been out west to hunt, and in fact have never hunted with a high powered rifle. Here in NJ, we are limited to shotgun and ML. So, I'm really not sure what to get in terms of magnification that will be applicable both out west (for next year and future hunts for mulies, elk, etc) and for eastern hunting (whitetails).

Right now, I have a Burris Fullfield 3-9x40 on my ML and absolutely love it. I hunt some really thick areas and it offers some nice optics, especially in lowlight...but I do find it difficult to "track" moving deer at times. 3-9x is probably overkill for an ML in NJ anyway, but I honestly really like it and have been fortunate to take a few with it! What do you think of the Burris line?

Anyway, I'm thinking along the lines of a Leupold VX-II 3-9x40 or VX-III 3.5-10x40 or 3.5-10x50. Any thoughts on these scopes? How about the magnification, good enough for hunting out west? I'd imagine our shots are going to be out to 300 yards (max), but I'll likely try to keep mine to 200 or so on a spot and stalk.

BTW, I'd love to get a nice Zeiss or Swarovski, but honestly cannot afford the $1,000+. I'm looking to hover under $600 if possible. Eventually, I plan on getting a new rifle down the road and will outfit it with a Zeiss/Swarovski, but just can't afford it right now. I also know it is very important to spend the money on quality optics...hence my current dilemma. I think I'd be better off focusing my money towards a scope for the 30-06 I can currently use rather than splitting it up on a rifle/scope combo...and just save up for a future purchase.

Now, since we are on the topic of rifles and considering I've never shot a HP rifle, do you think a 30-06 is good for elk and mulies? My father has used it mostly for whitetails, but from what I understand it is an effective weapon for most all big game.

One final question is a recommended bullet/load for a Springfield 30-06?

I've been doing some research on the 30-06 ammo, and it seems like there are ALOT of options. Core-Lokt, Accu-Tip, etc, etc, etc...but a bunch of different manufacturers (Remington, Winchester, Hornady, Federal, etc)

Based on what I've found so far, I'm interested in trying out the Premier Scirocco Bonded and the Barnes X bullets. Any input on these? Anyone try them?

Any info would be greatly appreciated! Thanks all!

I use a 3-9 Nikon on my '06 and never needed anything more. I think any of the mid priced scopes should work well, my most recent purchase was a Bushnell Elite 3200 and I'm really happy with it. I can't help much with loads since I only shoot 180 gr. bullets in mine but it's worked for all the deer size game so far.

I have been puting Burris fullfeild IIs with balistic plex on mine I realy like the extra cross hairs. The new leupold line has them also. I would go with a a3x9 with the extra cross hairs really make hitting at long range a lot easier.

The 30-06 is fine for any game in North America. The 180 gr bullet will take all big game. For deer and black bear sized animals regular bullets are fine. For heavier game a premium bullet will only cost a little more.

The 3-9 power is the most popular and so is the Leupold line. However they have just changed the VX111 and the name also. I have no idea what they are going to call them but it must be at the Leu website. Since the new ones are not out we only know what Leu says about them. So if you see one for sale beware that if it's an older one it should go for less in theory.

I would just get a Leu VX1 2-7 but if you like 3-9 go for it as they are both right answers. As for you loosing the game in the scope I need more details but we all loose game as it moves around.

A very popular Zeiss scope right now is the 3-9 Conquest. They are assembled in the USA and sell for only $385 or so at places like DNR.com

I dislike any 3-9X40s. Or just about any 40mm and above for that matter. Compacts in a fixed 4 or 6X make for good optics or a 2-7X, 1.5x5 if you like variables. Any one of these will make good big game optics. I partial to Burris and Leupold, no better optics for the money IMO.

I would set it up the same way I did for my son's 06; Leup. VXIII 2.5x8 shooting 180grNP for elk & 180gr Sierra, Hornady or Speer for deer. I'm kind of a rifle nut so I don't own an 06 but it's got to be one of the most versital for NA game.

For my first western hunt I bought an old Model 70 in .30-06 from a friend. Based on reading a lot from those with experience, I put a Leupold Vari-X III 2.5-8x on it, and tried several factory loads.

This rifle shot wonderfully with the Federal Premium 180-gr. Partition, so that's what I used. I think that's a great all-around bullet and a couple of factories load it --I used the standard-velocity, not the High Energy. The High Energy seemed to give a bit too much pressure for my old rifle. I didn't own a chronograph at the time but later found that the standard load (and others in the same line tried in other guns) tend to run quite a bit slower than advertised -- not a big deal, just don't trust ballistic tables.

The terrain we hunted was pretty open and the elk were hanging out on timbered ridgetops. My partner shot his bull at 300 yds. with a .300 Weatherby shooting the same bullets -- all of them exited. I shot mine at 40 yds through the lungs and top of the heart and the bullet stuck in the opposite shoulder. The bull ran about 75 yds. and was absolutely dead when we found him -- maybe all of 5-10 min. later.

BTW that scope was set on 4x for the entire hunt. I missed another bull at about 200 yds but never felt 4x was a positive or negative factor in either shot. You might turn it up to 6x for deer after you fill your elk tag, other than that I wouldn't fiddle with it.

My big advice (based on all this experience ) -- if you've had success with the shotgun and ML you likely have good hunting skills. But since you've not had the opportunity to shoot at game past 100 yds. or so, I'd recommend you find a 300-yd. range and get in some practice over the next year -- just so you know where your chosen load really hits.

Also, make sure you're in good shape, take lots of pictures, and have a great time!

John

BowhunterNJ,- The best weight bullet for the 06 is 165gr. I myself have a M700, and it shoots great. For a couple of years I have been using AA2700 @50.0 grs. Nosler B tips is all I also use, never failed me yet.
As for viewing,I would ditch the Burris,stick to the Leupold, 3x9x40 vxII, this is all you should need for any game in North America,IMO.

Thanks for the advice all, please keep it coming...learning alot.

The one thing I like about the Burris and Leupold scopes is the Lifetime Warranty...can't beat that. The Burris on my ML is absolutely fantastic, and I can drill out near touching groups to 125 yards with that bad boy and its a side hammer ML! 50 yards, she puts em in the same hole.

Anywho...I don't have a public range here in NJ where I can shoot a HP rifle at all. I can join a military range for $50/year and shoot at 200 yards there...might do that. Would love to get a 300+ yard shot in somewhere...maybe somewhere up in PA or NY near some relatives properties...we'll see.

I definitely want to get started on this early, hate waiting until last minute on anything.

The one thing I am relatively worried about is the magnification and what is needed for out west and shooting 200-300 yards. Out here, I have that 3-9x40 on my ML and most of my shots are under 50 yards. That scope never comes off 3x, and as a matter of fact...even shooting 125 yards at the public range I rarely move it. I find I am much more stable with lower magnification, which makes sense considering the magnification of movement increase with the magnification of power on the scope.

I'd imagine 3-9x is sufficient for 200-300 yards? I'm really liking that 3.5-10x50mm Leupold VX-III, but am wondering how it will be acquiring targets in the woods of PA and NY with the 3.5 min setting. I'd imagine if I can do it with 3x at 50 yards here in NJ in woods thicker than an Alabama swamp...I'd be fine in the open woods terrain of PA and NY.

So, thus far for scope, the 3.5-10x50mm Leupold VX-III has my vote based on research and the overall Leupold quality. But, I'll be takin a trip to Cabela's in PA in a few weeks to check em all out and see whats to see. But I really do love my Burris, and the following indicates some strong selling points about the Burris scopes compared to others. Any thoughts on this page? :

http://www.burrisoptics.com/fullfield.html


The next interesting point brought up was with crosshairs. What do you all recommend?

I believe my Burris Fullfield (not FF II) has a Heavy Duplex with the Electrodot (although I never use the Electrodot).

What is the preference for longer range shooting?

Much of this I'll be taking to my local gunsmith when I get this 30-06 scoped and boresighted and a few other goodies. I'll get his/her input on some good loads to try as well.

Thanks again for all the info!

I would avoid the 50mm scopes. You have to mount them too high which makes it ackward to position you eye and adds un-needed torque to your mounting system. Stick with a 3x9x40 or a 2x7x40 and you'll be fine. I'll also cast my vote for the 165gr bullet as long as all you're hunting is mulies. If you're hunting east of the Powder river, the land is very broken up while often giving the appearance of being flat. You may well see deer at 300 and 400 yards but can stalk closer using the land contours. All of the deer I (and my buddies) have killed have been under 300 yards.

Cool, yeah I was worried about the 50mm objective raising the scope. One thing the 30-06 has is a raised cheek pad on the stock for shooting, fits very comfortable...much more so than any of my other guns (ML and shotgun).

Why do some prefer the 50mm? Just for the added light transmittance in low light? I figure that isn't going to hold much weight on my hunt out there, since most shots will be in broad daylight anyway (from what I understand). The 40mm on my Burris is outstanding for the terrain I hunt here in low light...so perhaps it would be a good idea to stick to the 40mm!

What is the advantage of the 165 vs 180 grain bullets? Flatter trajectory, more MV...but less KE with the 165?

CAN YOU SAY SHEPHERD?

http://www.shepherdscopes.com

look at the P2 scope.

I have used SHepherds for years and they give you potential to get more out of your rifle then you would ever imagine yourself doing.

One of the Canadians I hunt caribou with put a Shepherd P2 on his rifle just before the hunt. His is also a 30-06.
I have hunted with this guy before and he is very leary of shooting over 150yds. This year he set up on a caribou at right around 300yds and one shot dropped it in it's tracks.
THe easy ranging system doesn't force you to guess holdover and the trajectories fit just about any caliber ballistics you would normally shoot.

I popped 2 walking caribou at over 400yds(one at 420 and the other at 479 acording to later laser readings) this year from an offhand sling position with the .340wby. The Shepherds just give you the confidence to make shots you wouldn't think of with any other scope.

And they back their product in a manner you wouldn't believe. I had my 9 pound .340 get knocked off of an elevated platform 10 feet up by a friend(?) of mine. The first point of contact with anything was the front scope bell hitting the concrete step face on, crumpling the scope, and just literally destroying it. wrinkled the tube, knocked lenses loose, bent the front bell 20-30 degrees out of line.
I sent it back to Shepherd with a letter saying "it is not your fault" and to see if it could be fixed and how much.....They said NO it could not be fixed and that it was the most damaged scope they had ever received.
They sent me a new scope. THAT is service.

I would buy another 2-7 leupold, ideal scope for a 30/06 and I would choose the 180 gr speer Round Nose, works well on large grassy's.

I shot my first buck with an '06 way back in 1960. Since then I've hunted every type of deer habitat known with the exception of tropical rain forrest.
Most 180 gr. bullets are a bit tough for deer. They work, but they are made to hold together on larger animals, not open rapidly on deer. This becomes much more apparent as the impact velocity falls due to increased range. The exception are the Nosler Partition and Ballistic Tip bullets. They open very well at low impact speeds.
I don't have much faith in the Ballistic Tips as they don't hold together well. There are much better bullets out there. All of the other 150 gr. bullets work fine for deer. The premiums are the way to go for the elk class stuff. They are the Swift-A-Frames (Remington), the Fail Safes (Winchester) and either the Nosler Partition or the Throphy Bonded in the Federal brands. I really like the Federal 165 gr. Throphy Bonded. They retain upwards of 90% of their weight.
I wouldn't worry about magnification. Ive used everything from the old 2.5-4X B&L to the fanciest big Leupolds in the 6.5-20X to 3.5-10X range. I've used straight 4X scopes as much as anything and made some really long shots with them. That means well over 300 yds. A 6X helps alot when the light is dim. If mounted right, and if it has good eye relief characteristics, like the Leupold 6X42, they work alot better than you'd think in heavy cover. The Leupolds, the Bushnell Elites, the Weavers, the Sightrons and the Zeiss Conquests are all good.
I echo the comment about practice. Learn to use the sitting position and a shooting sling. Makes those 200-300 yd. shots much easier, especially when under stress. E

For big game scopes I think that in many cases less is more. The 2.5x8 Leupold is probably about perfect. A 2x7 or 3x9 is fine and I wouldn't feel handicapped with a straight 4x. For years I used a 3x9 Leupold VariXII on my old Model 70. Never had a problem from whitetails to mule deer to pronghorn. Last fall I mounted a 1.75x6 VariXIII that I had laying around. Shot a mule deer buck at 420 yards along the Middle Fork in Idaho using my pet load of a 165 gr. Partition ahead of 57.0 gr. of IMR4350. A longer shot than I wanted to take but conditions were perfect. He staggered about 10 feet and fell over with a bullet through his chest. A 30/06 is still a solid choice for any big game animal in North America. It combines reasonable trajectory, a wide range of bullet weights, moderate recoil, and is available everywhere. The old girl still has life in her.

Jeff

Thanks again, great info!

I have done quite a bit of shooting, especially with my ML. Wish I had a range I could reach out with that on...I think I could squeeze 200 yards out of it on paper...not sure about KE at that range though.

I also plan on getting a set of sticks to carry for the longer shots out west...anyone have any recommendations there?

I usually always use my sling for a more stable shot while standing or sitting or kneeling. All depends on the condition of the shot though, sometimes a deer comes creeping in quickly and I don't have the time and can't afford the movement. But if I can, I definitely wrap the sling for a more secure and braced form...I believe that is what you are referencing.

I was actually just looking at those Zeiss Conquests in Cabela's and comparing them to the Leupold.

Zeiss Conquest 3.5-10x44 = $549.99
Leupold VariX-III 3.5-10x40 = $459.99

I look at the Conquest as the economy model of Zeiss and the VariX-III as the upper tier of Leupold...so that throws some doubt in my head. I'll definitely be checking them out on my trip to Cabela's and try to swing by one evening there to evaluate them in lowlight...but I'll add the Conquest to my list to review!

What's everyone's thoughts on Burris and that page I linked above?

http://www.burrisoptics.com/fullfield.html

Seems like they have quite a few selling points over the Leupold VXI and VXIIs at least...perhaps not the VariX-III or upcoming VXIIIs?

I'm also getting mixed responses on the 40mm vs 50mm objective selection. Some say go for the 50mm for the additional light transmittance...but the key for me that someone mentioned here is the additional height required to mount it. If that takes your head out of the shot (off the stock)...that's certainly not good. But, I know the 40mm I have on my ML sits great and the stock doesn't have a high cheek plate like the Rem 700 30-06 I have...so perhaps that would allow for the 50mm height?

What drives your choice between the 50mm and 40mm selection on a scope? Or a given objective in general. From my (very limited) research and experience, I would think the large objective would be the optimum choice for superior light transmittance, but also understand the larger the objective the larger the price tag...so that factors into a lot of decisions.

Thanks again for the feedback, this has been a great thread...certainly learning alot!

You can't go wrong with a 30-06. I use 165 gr Nosler BalTips for whitetails and switch to 165 gr Nosler Partitions when hunting bigger stuff.

As to scopes, both Burris and Leupold are quality sights. I've got 3-9x 50mm and 3-9x 40mm Leupold scopes and they are both good. The 50mm is a little awkward so I'd never get anything bigger. I don't like adjustible objectives either, just something else to fool with or go wrong.

I hunt with the scope set at 6x almost all the time. I use 3x in real brushy places sometimes and the 9x is good for sighting-in.

Good luck with your new rifle.

Hey Grizz, thanks for the input. Why do you change bullet types but stay at the same weight? What is the difference between the two you mentioned and why can't you shoot one "universal" bullet?

Does one just perform better on bigger game (say elk), but has some problem on smaller game (say deer)?

I see alot of different bullets/loads used by guys from animal to animal and I don't know if it's because they are fanatical shooters/reloaders or if there is some rhyme or reason to it!

My guess is you want something that will mushroom upfront but maintain its weight throughout the chest cavity of the animal. Where I get confused is...if you can find a bullet that does that at various ranges for elk, would it not do it for mulies and whitetails as well?

On the other hand, I can understand why some shoot a different load when hunting open terrain where longer shots are predominant...compared to brushy terrain where you need a "brush buster" type setup.

Good thing I'm getting started early here...there's alot to learn!

By sticking to the same weight bullet, you may have to tweek your scope a mite but don't really have to re-sight you rifle. I don't know about other folks, but I tend to work up one load per rifle and use it for everything. I may switch bullets (and that is mostly an anal thing) but stay in the same wgt bracket. I don't know what size your deer are but here in WV they run small. Mule deer are considerably larger, so when I started going west to hunt I switched to a partition or grand slam bullet for the added confidence it gave me. To be honest, I don't know if I needed to or not. True be told, there are no magic bullets. And I believe a 165gr Hornady or Core Lokt bullet would have done the same job the higher priced bullets did. All that said, I would use the 150-165gr bullet my rifle shot best.

Buy something in the price range of a VX-11 or a Weaver and save some bucks.

The difference between 40 and 50 mm scopes has to do with "exit pupil". The maximum the human eye can use is 5mm. If you divide the objective by the power (40/8 = 5) then for max light through a 40 mm scope 8x is the limit. You can play around with a scope starting at about 40 minutes below sunup. With my Burris Sig 3-9 x 40 I can see good enough to shoot about 40 minutes before sunup on a moonless morning (10 minutes before legal). By a full moon in an open field I can also see good enough to shoot bunnies and yotes. I think 50 mm scopes are just awkward except for serious magnification like 6.5-20.

BowhunterNJ

I have a Graf & Sons (573-581-2666)flyer that came in the mail this month that is closing out the Leupold VXIII scopes. A 2.5-8X Matte is $334 and a 3.5-10X Matte is $344. I have one of each of these scopes and they are my favorites.

I grew up in Washington, NJ. If I were you I'd find a range and set up the 30/06 with a 200 yd zero. If you handload you may want to try the Nosler 200 gr Partition for Elk and I'd use a 165 or 180 gr for everything smaller.

If you're close to PA, they have some fine ranges at some of their state game lands.

For deer it's hard to overlook a 165 grs bullet.

A 165 interbond/scirocco usually gives you some of the best precision ever in you 30-06 rifle. Combine it with a proper charge of Vithavouri N-160 ( 57-59,5grs depends on brass weight)you have a charge you can use all year. Switch bullet to a 168 MK/ 167 Scenar and you can train all year with a load that shoots almost identical out to 300y as your hunting load.

For the biggest bucks I would use a 165 Northfork/ TBBC/ A-Frame/ NP whoever your rifle likes the best.

The Vithavouri powder has shown exceptional grouping in more than 10 30-06 rifles I have loaded for. Buy a pound a try.

Scope is a tuff one since I know nothing about your terrain. Best all-round performer in the price range you mention is in my opinion one of these: Bushnell Elite 4200 2,5-10x40/50, Weaver Grand Slam 3,5-10x50, Nikon Monarch 3-9x40/3,5-10x50 and maybe the best of all the Zeiss Conquest 3,5-10x44. If there will be a lot of close range hunting in woodland areas I would take the 2,5-10x50 Bushnell. If not the 3,5-10x44 Zeiss is in my opinion the best scope for the money at todays marked.

Thanks for the additional feedback.

Unfortunatly, I don't load my own...so I'd have to buy off the shelf. I guess go with the bullets you mentioned by whatever manufacturers make them...try em out and see what shoots best?

Bow, alot of guys will switch to a "premium" bullet for better penetration on larger game (ie, my original post). Deer are smaller & require lees penetration. A deer also offers less resistance to bullet expansion so a "hard" bullet like the Combined Tech. partitions may not expand enough.

30-06... Terrible dissmal round! Load it up with 125 BT's and it will varmint with the best of them. 150 grain slugs will sing along at near magnum velocities and put down any deer with authority, 180 grain bullets and your ready for Elk. One gun does it all, awfull boring round! If your rifle likes core loct's then stick with them, theyre a great bullet..

I like a fixed 6 or a 3-9 scope on most of my rifles. Never anything bigger than 40mm. 32 is just as good and less weight.

Happy hunting..

I see many here reload on their own...does anyone know where I can get some info on "stock" bullets/loads?

I find ALOT of information on custom loads via reloading...but can't seem to find much on the off the shelf available loads.

On a side note, an interesting bullet I came across was the Barnes Triple-Shock X-Bullet. Thing looks nasty...anyone have any experience with that one?

Do you think the 165 gr. Supreme� Fail Safe� for the 30-06 is overkill for mulies and whitetails due to the slow expansion?

I was thinking of giving these a try, but read the following passage that made me think otherwise...

"Another product of this cooperative arrangement is the Winchester Fail Safe bullet, which features a homogenous hollow-point nose and a rear core that is encased in two steel cups and sealed with a heel closure disk. The Fail Safe is a very tough bullet that exhibits tremendous penetration and is best reserved for large big game -- elk, moose, grizzly, and African-plains game. On smaller bodied game species, it doesn't expand quickly or violently enough compared to a standard Partition."

Bowhunter,
165 grain bullets just seem like the right size for all types of shooting. The ballistic tip bullets are essentially hollow points with a plastic tip. They are very accurate and hit like a sledgehammer but they are a little mushy for elk and other big critters. The partition bullet is much tougher but not quite as accurate.

Hope that helps. Good hunting.

I wouldn't go higher than a 3-9 on an -06. I personally use a 2-7 on mine for deer. Any good (not necessarily premium) 165-180gr bullet loaded to max velocity that your rifle likes (moa) will work if you limit yourself to 250yds.

If you like the Burrris - then go with it! I have the Fullfield 3-9x40 - but really bought it due to the ballistic plex. IMO anything that allows me to aim dead on at varying ranges is a real boon on a 'goto' hunting rifle. Yes - its a 30'06 as well. I have made one or two shots at 3-400yds with this rig - all one shot stops. Very happy with the choice of calibre/glass as a rifle for the world.

Rgds Ian