Steve



Perhaps you did not read this entire post. I have lots of rifles available to me to use (4 brothers who hunt) plus my own Model 70 7 Mag and my own G.33/40 8mm Mauser and my own 94 Winchester. So I really don't need to go to a pawn shop to buy anything. Rather, my question was (is) whether anyone here had used a 30-30 on Elk, and if so, how did it perform for them. I asked the question because the 30-30 weighs considerably less than any of the other rifles I have available. the idea came to me while watching a show on the Sportsman's Channel where this guy was hunting Caribou up in NOrthern Canada somewhere with a 30-30 winchester. It looked to me as though some of those Caribou were approaching the size of an Elk. In addition, I have read many stories in magazines where others have successfully used the lever actions on Elk.



Thanks though for your suggestion.



SEafire



Although I practice a lot, my shooting is usually no better than minute of the top of a 55 gallon drum, so I plan to limit my shots to about 150 yards no matter what I use.

Blue

I know this much, I have 8 points towards elk on my AZ license. That means I've struck out trying to get drawn for elk for the past 8 years. If, by God's grace, I do get drawn this year, I am taking my .338 Win. When you only get the tags every 8 years, why handicap yourself by choosing "it can get the job done if you hit it right/close enough/if the elk is asleep/half dead/smaller than a great dane" gun?

Blue,
It's refreshing to see that there are still people with the attitude that you don't have to kill something to have the hunt of a lifetime. It seems like these days, there are an awful lot of people who make themselves miserable because things didn't work out and they came home empty handed. Of course, a lot of these guys are the people who just drive around all season and then bitch about not seeing any game. Then there are the guys with guns just a little smaller than grenade launchers who think that if they can see it they can hit it, and end up crippling critters left and right before they actually kill something. Personally, I think it's good to put some limitations on yourself and make your hunt more challenging. Even if you're not successful in taking and elk, you can look back and say that you had a challenging hunt that you'll remember for a lifetime. Like you say, you're not planning on taking any shots over 100 yards anyway, in that case the .30-30 should work just fine. Good luck!

Sorry Blue about missing the point. No experience here with the M94 in .30/30 except on whitetail.

I will say that no matter what the people with experience say I would stuff it with no less a bullet than the Partition or X-Bullet. They have really increased the effectiveness of all cartridges IMO.

Gutshot

I remember when I was a kid, after shooting a deer, I had to call up everyone I knew that also hunted deer and brag about the fact that I had shot one. Later in life I had to make sure I took photos to show everyone, and then later still spend money to have the head mounted if the antlers looked decent.

then I realized that it was the being out there and getting close to the deer that was really what the hunt was all about. Shooting the animal is a rather mechanical ending to what the hunt was really all about.

Nowadays, it is almost as much fun for me to plan a hunt, think about what I might buy for the hunt, actually shop for the hunt, and then of course get out there and do the hunt. I know whether I have seen animals or not, and whether I could have shot them or not, and sometimes that has been good enough for me.

I certainly don't disparage those who would hire a guide to make absolutely sure that they take an animal. That is fine. But as more and more people are born, and as less and less wild country is avaialable for wild animals, more and more laws will be made that favor those who can and do make money on the sport, and those people will in turn charge more money becasue more pressure will be put on them to make sure the client takes "what the client paid for". Maybe that isn't all bad, and future generations will have to make those decisions theirselves.

As for me, the whole thing is fun. This part right here talking to you guys about the hunt is fun. Ordering catologs to look at stuff is fun. Looking at maps is fun.
Gettting out there is fun. Seeing the animals is fun. Shooting them is okay. Bragging about what I took is no longer any fun.

Blue

That attitude is the epitome of what real hunting is all about.

Amen, blue.

I hunt elk with a rifle only occasionally now....and thats usually because I have designs on justifying a new rifle or just feel like carrying it around.

Once I felt like I had figured elk hunting out, I switched to a recurve. I find it to be a lot more rewarding than rifle hunting elk is TO ME, NOW (the context). Granted, I am Oh-fer-7 seasons since I switched to primarily bowhunting them, but I think my seasons have been more action packed and enjoyable than before. If I do get an overwhelming desire to whack one someday, however, I will undoubtedly pick up my thundersticks again.

Funny how people will jump on a statement and the author thereof, without actually considering it within the context that it was made.

I hope noone infers that I was impying that elk hunting is not challenging! Its just that I lived in an area for 15 years where I could hunt them 75 days a year, every year. Its a little different than people who consider elk hunting a once in a lifetime event, or only measure success by a carcass on the ground.

Cheers,
Canuck

If killing was the primary reason for hunting, we'd all hunt behind a fence, or wouldn't hunt at all. I've come home from hunting gameless way more often than not.



Trophy hunters, IMO, get a bad rap at the hands of meat hunters for this very reason. (apparently meat hunters enjoy the event far more than the result. Whatever.). I shake my head every time someone brings that up. I do both, I guess, and see and pass on far more game when "trophy" hunting (ie. at 27 yrs old, if I was to put a number on the amount of 165 + (heavy on the plus) class Mule Deer I've let walk, I would be called a liar for sure) . However, I have a goal in mind when doing it and if that mature bear, buck, ram or bull presents itself, I don't get the warm and fuzzy's watching him walk away, if a chance to harvest the animal is presented. I also don't lose sleep over comming home empty handed.



So, when I get to a point that I head for the hills intending to pass on game, whatever my goals are, I'll pick up a camera and go for a hike.



Chuck

Chuck, your posts fit alot of the older hunters. I have done lots of the killin thing with deer and elk and over the last 10+ years my hunting has consisted of trophy hunting only as the meat is really not needed and as a few have said, it is the hunt that really matter's.

blue, I still feel strongly about the use of the 30-30 even within 100 yards. A big bull can assorb alot of lead and still keep going even from the big magnums. Even with a good hit from the 30-30 I doubt you would get an exit wound , which would make tracking almost impossable, then you chance losing a great animal. If you want to take a small lever gun, then at least make it a guide gun in 45-70

I pass on stuff many times a season, I don't generally meat hunt but will take a female should I want meat. My goal is trophy animals and if I don't get one on my terms I'll have had a hell of a good time trying. I was hunting rifle season last year with my bow and saw two B&C whitetails one I had been specifically hunting all season and one that showed up I had never seen before. I could have easily ran home and got the rifle and shot him but wanted to get him with the bow. Everybody hunts the way they do and no one should critisize them unless they do something beyond the capabilities of their chosen method.

Well said, agree 110%.

Oskar, I agree as well, and that is kind of what I'm getting at. I have finished alot of hunting seasons with a last day doe to fill the freezer, and quite frankly it doesn't take much hunting to accomplish it.

On the subject of bowhunting, I have hunted with one quite a bit. While I was in Highschool and for a year after I did it more than hunting with a rifle. It taught me alot about the persuit and I'm a better hunter for it. I even managed to take a couple of "book" heads with one (One of the reasons I glass over when I hear of P&Y accomplishments, as your just as likely, in my experience, to get a crack at a book head as any other during bow season.).

I don't hunt with a bow anymore, if for no other reason than, well, I just like guns to much.

Anyway, I really think we're all telling different versions of the same story.

Chuck

Chuck. I love my guns and spend far too much time and money reloading and shooting, just bought four, 2 new ones and two old pre-64's in the last year. Most of my time is spent at the rifle range when I should be scouting out those bucks and bulls. I just want to get a couple good critters with my bow, then back to the rifles I love even if I don't shoot many animals with them.

Skinner

I think anyone who calls theirself a hunter has to be willing to accept the responsibility to chase an animal that has been hit, and to do all that one can in order to recover the animal.

I know deer are not elk. But I have shot deer with an 8mm muaser that went down like they were poleaxed, and I have shot deer in the same general spot with a .338 Mag that went 500 yards before being found. I would imagine that much the same could happen with Elk.

Rest assured, I am committed to going after any animal I hit, regardless of whether it is with a 30-30 or a super duper magnum.

Blue

...I have an uncle who used to hunt Elk in the canyons with a Winchester 1894 in 32 Win. Special. My cousins say most of the time he was using blackpowder loads. First off he almost always was after small tasty freezer Elk. Secondly he always still hunted into the same brushy area that gave him cover, and approached into the wind. The cousins said almost all of his shots were under 70 yards.....

Blue, your .30-30 will work fine w/ good bullets (NP, 'X', etc. no ST)& shot placement. Keeping in mind you should be well under 100yds, you won't have to spend the extra money or carry a range finder.

Fred and others

Okay, lets talk Shot placement. Where is the absolutely best place to hit an elk.

Blue

Given my druthers, I shoot for the shoulder (scapula) or spine. If you break an elk's framework down, you break HIM down, pure and simple. That's why I like plenty of rifle, and that's why I like premium bullets. Certain Native American's have stated in so many words that, "He lives between his shoulders", and that concept is oh so very true, and serves as prime directive for proper shot placement on elk, or any heavy herbivorous game that is bigger than deer.

Straight lung shots are fine on elk if that's the best shot presentation available, but while I've had elk drop in their tracks with lung hits, I've also had 'em run 200 yds. with both lungs shot out. I've never had an elk go more than a step or two from a shoulder or spine hit, and almost always they've dropped in their tracks.

When I shoot an elk, I want instant lights-out if I can get it.........

AD

Lets see, he's shot countless deer and wants to know where to hit an elk........................hmmmmmmmmmmm

FYI, I'm gonna have to throw the bullshit flag on the statement that you dropped a deer in his tracks with a 8mm mauser and had another run 500 yards with a similar shot from a .338. I'd pay $10.00 to see that.

While your commitment to finding wounded game is commendable, what about your commitment to respecting the quarry enough to do all possible to ensure a quick death with a minimum of suffering????

Beemanbeme



I am not going to argue with you. If you don't believe what I say you are certainly entitled to your opinion and I support your right to say so.



Allen



Thanks for the advice on shooting for the Shoulder. I would have shot for the heart, but I trust your opinion.



Blue

If, you finally decide to use your .30-.30 for this hunt, then use the 170 gr. Nosler PT. bullet and hit him through the shoulder(s) about 1/3 up the body; do not hesitate to shoot him there 2 or 3 times, either. The old Jack O,Connor attitude about "high lung shots" is bullshit on Elk and Moose as you will very likely hit the long neural processes on the vertebrae; the animal will go down, then get up and bugger off, you will be standing there, openmouthed!

I have witnessed this and seen a few Elk hit through the lungs that got away. I will not use less than a .30 cal- 180 gr. premium bullet at 2700 fps+ for Elk and actually do use the combination I mentioned before.

Last autumn, I talked to a guide who was born and brought up in the bush near Liard off the Alcan Hiway. He has guided for more than 30 yrs in that country and is one of the most knowledgable bushmen I have ever seen and I am not exactly an amateur, myself. He told me of tracking a cow Elk for a solid half mile after a lung hit with a .375 H&H and I believe him, so, hit the bugger right and put a couple more into him, as well.

I can say that many of the best older hunters that I learned from used .303s, .30-40s,.300 Savages and .30-06s and some of these guys shot more than 100 Elk-w/o too much government interference-but, they got close and picked their shot. Over-all though, I very strongly agree with Allen on this as most of us WANT to shoot an animal on each hunt, I certainly did for most of the past 40 yrs.

To me, you are limiting yourself to a full broadside shot, both lungs if possible. I would stay off the shoulder/leg bone itself, I'm not sure your 170grNP/'x' bullet has enough gas to break the bone & still penetrate. I witnessed my friends shot on a bull elk @ well under 100yds w/ a 180gr Sivertip, I wouldn't want to bet on the .30-30 "breaking" your elk down. Both lungs, a bit of tracking & you'll find your elk.

I should clear one thing up about shot placement:

If I were hunting elk with a .30-30, or a .270 Win., or anything less than a .30-06 with strongly constructed 180 or 200 gr. bullets, I would try to limit my shots to lung hits, about one-third of the way up and right behind the shoulder. I'd also shoot 170 gr. Nosler Partitions, preferrably handloaded, in the .30-30, and 150s loaded to 2900 fps. or better in the .270 Win.

This is where I think the .30-06 with premium bullets makes an ideal minimum elk cartridge, and it's a good, solid, on-the-right-side-of-the-margin "minimum". There's enough bullet mass and velocity to reliably get the job done with shoulder shots, and of course lungs shots are no problem, unless, of course, an elk decides to run, and if he can run, that means he can get away. As advocated, framework shots can cure a lot of ills, but your cartridge and bullet had better be up to the job or forget it.

In my experience the .300s and .338s increase your shot-placement options and hammer bulls a whole lot harder than does--as good as it is-- the '06, and that's why I've used those cartridges exclusively for the last dozen years on elk.

AD

I would like to add to Allen�s comments.

I have shot a few elk with the 270 Winchester. With the use of 150 NP or 140-150 gr Barnes X, I have found I can lengthwise an elk no problem. I have also found that a 270 generally does the same or more damage than a 06, but I do think Allen�s comments are sound.

On shooting wild boars I find the NP 170 grain, penetrates farther than any other jacked bullet and the Hornaday a close second, though the gap widens on the HNDY after hitting bone. All and all, most bullets from the 30-30 I have shot into boars penetrated ~12-18"s. The farthest penetrator I have used is a 170 grain air cooled wheel weight at 1880fps, though I wouldn�t choose it above the 170 NP on elk.

I think a guy could take an Elk no problem with the aforementioned limitations blue has outlined, but if asked if it was a "good" choice... id have to say no. In fact, as far as cartridges are concerned, its one of the poorer choices. blue wants to live his limitations sorta speak, which sometimes makes life all the more sweet. I think allot of posters believe it is ok under ideal conditions, but recognize that conditions are rarely ideal, and that we are all human.

Does a 35 Remington fit in this category as well? I've taken a cow elk at @ 40 yds. with it thru the shoulder w/ a 200g handloaded core-lokt @ 7 yrs. ago in unit 291. My partner I hunt with has a 5x6 from the same unit shot 2 yrs. ago with this same Marlin rifle. Bull was facing him at @ 80 yds. and shot where the neck meets the sternum with a Speer handloaded 220g FP. Bull made it @ 50 yds. and dropped. Bullet went in around 3 ft. of elk. I use a 35 Rem for a truck/backup rifle in case something happens like when my friends horse smashed his rifle against a tree from being spooked by the 4 wheeler backfiring. My belief is shot placement and keep it close. Now if I really want to "slay" elk my Whelen is hard to beat.

Blue ----- I have deer hunted with a 30-30 for years and still do. I have killed all my better Deer with it and consider it the perfect deep woods Deer rifle. I will not argue that it is capable of killing Elk, in the past it has taken many, mainly because that is all the old timers had to shoot. -----When I hunt Elk each year in Colorado, I take at least my .300 Win mag or .340 Wby, or .338 Lapua, or .358 STA. Where I hunt there is lots of hunting pressure, shots are long, and the window to shoot is only seconds. When the bullet gets there I want it to blow through, WHOMP the insides, then blow out, leaving as large an exit hole as possible. After lots of dead Elk this works for me. If you take the 30-30 where I hunt you are limiting yourself greatly and I don't want that if the Bull that is standing in front of me out to 400 yards is that 7 X 7 of my dreams that I am always seeking. Good shooting.

.........I believe what it all boils down to is your particular preference of hunting styles. If your a still stalker, a 30/30 will work, but do the things to maximize your chances of success. Limit range, use a premium bullet, maximize your range closing habits. I know alot of us Eastern hunters are used to palmetto jumping range and would perhaps levitate towards such an approach. But we also have plenty of Beanfield hunters who love their big magnums too. Personally I love the old .35 Remington, it always seems to do what I want it to do. But I stay within it's strongpoints. I've seen alot of 400 pound Hogs fall to it, so it definitely can do the job.