It's been covered to death previously in this thread by speculators and naysayers as well as guys who were hunting the same Bull.

Sorry, just found the site and seen the thread. Noticed that no one mentioned he was on the bull very very early in the season and missed so I thought I would post. Will pay attention to the date of last post and number of posts on a topic from now on, so I don't beat a dead horse with possibly new information.

I'm not going to say whether or not the bull should or shouldn't be declared the B&C record because that's up to them. What I will say is that I would enjoy a hunt where I was the guide, shooter, tracker, cook, and campstaff more than a hunt where I was paying someone else to do these things. I feel like my attitude was predominant 30+ years ago (just from what I've read, I'm not that old), and the prevailing yardstick has changed to value the bone over the experience. I guess no one wants to watch a guy on TV shoot a "little" deer or elk.

Hey 2blkhtn
No need to start right off getting your panties all bunched up, no offense intended but go back to page one and read CAelknuts posts, he was actually there and may shed some light on exactly what you are talking about, then when you read kudu's posts you can tell the difference one guy was actually there and has the facts, one guy is bitter that anyone shot a great bull under any circumstances and will go to great lengths to cast doubt on the hunt, as many other jealous hunters are doing to this guy and his great bull.
Hey I'm not paying anyone to guide me on an elk hunt but that doesn't mean I have to belittle someone that does.
Enjoy the forum.

I just tried to read this thread and it seems someone deleted a bunch of posts. It makes very little sense at this point.

What happened and what is the real issue?

It was a "posse hunt", it is a great trophy, but the method used should disallow it from the B&C record book. And long shots don't make you a hunter either, just a shooter. So now go pound your chest!

You can go to montser muleys.com, and occasionally see the truths posted, but they get deleted almost as fast as they get posted, because the outfitter advertises there. I got my information from one of the guides, not some internet thread. The general hunting society of Utah know's the truth, and many are not affraid to post it. The hunters of Utah are a pretty serious and dedicated group of people. Not much happens with in the borders of Utah that every hunter doesn't know about.

I did read all the posts for this thread, if some have been deleted prior to my post then of course I didn't read those. My panties are not in a wad, nor will they ever be in a wad over a thread about elk hunting. I was just adding information that some may find interesting about Spidey. I have lived in Utah for about 9 years now and have made it my families permanent home since retiring from the AF. I have heard every story you can imagine and more about how this bull was taken from "First hand knowledge". If everyone that has told me they have first hand knowledge is telling the truth, then Spidey was tied up until shooting light because it would have been a packed house. :-) The info I posted was actually correct, I found the local news article I was referring to and here is the link. Enjoy and I will see you all on the mountain.
http://www.kutv.com/content/ou...670KYdoXj0iYcIQ.cspx

FYI-

memorandum

To: Boone and Crockett Club Big Game Records Committee

From: Eldon L. “Buck” Buckner

Date: December 23, 2008

Subject: Austad N.T. Elk Entry Investigation

As per the committee’s direction, I investigated the circumstances surrounding the harvest of this bull and found no evidence that would disqualify this elk from listing in the B&C Records. The following is a brief of my findings:

I personally discussed Denny Austad’s hunt for this bull via telephone two different times. Having met Denny previously and having performed confirming measurements on 3 other trophies he has taken, I know him to be a passionate outdoorsmen to the degree of engineering his own cartridge and rifle designs. My personal feeling is, while Denny is passionate about selectively hunting for trophy specimens, he does not overly advertise his accomplishments in the field and has a great sense of responsibility to conservation. He does like to hunt big deer and elk and has several mounted in his modest home in Idaho.

I asked him to write a narrative of his hunt and send it in with the entry materials after his bull was initially measured by B&C Official Measurer, Rusty Hall after the 60-day drying period, which he did. His written account is a very brief version that mirrored our previous telephone conversation. I would add that I was at the FNAWS–Mule Deer Foundation–Sportsmen for Wildlife joint show in Salt Lake City when Denny purchased the Utah elk tag at auction. It was the first time he’d ever purchased such a tag, and he called his wife from there to tell her and ask if they were still married!

I talked with outfitter Doyle Moss via telephone, who personally guided Denny on the hunt. I last spoke with him about the hunt on Dec. 16th. They first saw the bull about July 1, in velvet, and sent Denny a video of the bull. At that time, and into early September, the bull spent a lot of time feeding on various parcels of private land surrounded by Fishlake National Forest Land in the Monroe Unit east of Richfield, Utah, in high country which is very accessible by road. I learned that as news of the bull spread, other outfitters and hunters begin scouting for the bull. According to Doyle, they did not have anyone trying to maintain constant surveillance on the bull. As Denny stated, he believed the bull must have grown weary of all the unwanted attention because he had moved into thick, rough timbered country before his hunt started on Sept. 1st. They found him on Sept. 12th at long range, made an unsuccessful stalk, then stumbled across the bull on their way out, which resulted in a missed shot. Denny returned home sick on the 13th, with carbon monoxide poisoning. He was still recovering from that when Doyle called him on the 29th to say that his guide living at Richfield, Clint Bigelow, had seen the bull a couple days earlier. The bull had moved about 12 miles south with some cows toward wintering range. Doyle felt they could find him if Denny could resume his hunt. Doyle met Denny at the Utah-Idaho line and they drove together to Richfield, got a few hours sleep, then accompanied by guide Bigelow, drove out in the dark of morning to look for the bull, which they found with about 14 cows in high sagebrush/aspen stringer country. Denny made a one shot kill, a high lung shot, with one of his custom designed .300 magnums.

On 12/18/08, I contacted Vance Munford who is with the Utah Game Dept. and is the biologist for the area that includes the Monroe Unit where the bull was shot. He and other officers verified that the bull was shot on public land within the Fishlake National Forest, that all applicable permits were in place, and that the bull was legally taken. Responding to rumors that the bull was a “stocked” bull, they examined the cape and head at the taxidermist for any evidence of old ear tags, lip tattoos or other game farm ID that are both required and typical of such animals, and found no evidence of such.

I also reached Mike Fowlks, who is head of Law Enforcement of Utah game department (also an official B&C Measurer). He confirmed that the bull was shot on public land, and further that they had investigated claims (by unidentified third parties) that Austad and Moss had trespassed and hunted on private property. They found that Austad and Moss had indeed approached private land boundaries, but, by their tracks had remained on public land and had not trespassed. He said that there also had been reports of National Forest roads being illegally blocked, supposedly by Mossback Outfitters, but they could never find a person who actually saw this – it was always 3rd party info. Mike also said that they had done considerable checking, and confirmed that at least 55 other hunters had opportunity and did hunt the area during the archery, rifle, and muzzle-loader seasons. Any of them had the opportunity to find the bull.

On 12/18/08 at 6:30pm, I also talked with Fishlake National Forest Biologist Craig Rasmussen by telephone. He has 15 years experience in the area. A friend of his believes he saw the same bull the fall before, as many antler characteristics were the same. He said he saw the bull during the rut a couple times, and was amazed that someone hadn’t harvested the bull before Austad did. He said the increased traffic and business brought to Richfield by the notoriety of this bull was unbelievable. From sales of binoculars, meals, motel rooms, fuel, etc., he thinks the bull was a great economic factor for the town. He also said that so much pressure caused the elk to move from their usual feeding ground into more remote country. He said also that the cows started migrating toward winter range about 3 weeks ahead of the usual time this year, dragging some bulls with them, including the Austad bull.

According to Rasmussen, various conservation groups such as the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation have contributed a lot of money in improving 30,000 acres of habitat on the Monroe Unit, and some 75,000 acres have been improved on the Fishlake National Forest in total. This improvement is from prescribed burning and pipe-harrow treatment of stagnant sagebrush stands on transition range.

Rasmussen stated that he was constantly in the unit during the elk season and that he never observed any illegal activity by Mossback Outfitters, nor was he able to substantiate any of the rumored unethical practices they were being accused of via internet blogs, etc.

After just reading the investigation of others who have, or planed to publish stories in the media about this bull I can find nothing there to conflict with what I’ve discovered in my own investigation of this trophy and consider it a legally taken trophy that complies with our entry affidavit requirements and is eligible for B&C Awards.

Eldon “Buck” Buckner
V.P. – Records Division
Boone and Crockett Club

Nice post, I also have heard of the trespassing and blocking of roads and even the occasional running elk out of an area to ensure the success of a guided hunter. However, anyone that I have talked with that know Doyle personally dispute those accusations for all they are worth.

Thanks again for the great info.

Simply put, it was a posse hunt! One of Doyle Moss's techniques of using multiple trackers and spotters, for finding, staying with and getting clients big bulls.

Kudu you truly are a big windbag trying to get the last negative comment "in".

Listen windbag if you are trying to get under my skin, its working you piss me off.
Whats with the long range elk slayer bullshit?
I've killed one Bull at 425 yards, longest shot on an elk I've ever attempted and you know what? dead bull. I've shot 2 bulls around the 175-180 yard mark, and all my other elk have been under 50 yards, most at about 35 yards or so.
Whats your point windbag?
Frankly I don't think you know your ass from a hole in the ground.

"long shots"
and this is wrong how? I take lots of long shots all year long at my range, a long shot to me is anything 200 yards and beyond. I practice practice practice so that any shot in my practiced range is makeable under the right circumstances. I enjoy that range time and the longer the better.
I doubt you can relate to the "shooting practice" I'm sure you are such a great elk hunter that when you sighted your guns in last year that you just don't need to shoot them anymore.
You know kudu I've seen some of your posts and I'm man enough to admit that you and I see eye to eye on more than one topic but your run everyone down attitude and negative bullshit are things I can't agree with.
This is my final posting on this matter, if you'd like to continue this discussion I'll give you my phone number so we can iron it out once and for all.
By the way I'm glad you checked out my profile.
Here is the uncut version:
Picture URL:
Location: Eastern plains of Colorado
Interests: Hunting, shooting, reloading, long shots, one shot kills, guns, camping fishing, hiking, Mtn. Climbing, my boys and horses

This is my first post on this topic, and I have to say, I do not think this bull was harvested ethically. Born and raised in the shadows of the Monroe mountains I would have to say that this bull magically appeared around July 1st 2008. If in fact this was a natural bull, it would have been seen in 2007 and 2006, but in fact it was not. There is no evidence that this bull was on that mountain earlier that 2008. If so, sheds would have been found. Any Richfield, Monroe, Aurora, Joseph, Glennwood, Burrville, Venice, Annabella, Elsinore, residents who spend most weekends from the end of school through the opening of rifle deer hunt want to speak up? If this elk was there in 2007 there would be pictures. Even Doyles first response to seeing pictures was and I quote "nice ranch bull"

These bulls dont just appear. There are so many hunters, scouts, film crews, heli's, fishermen, deer hunters, ... scouting that this bull would have been seen. I was on a hunt in southern Utah, Mt. Dutton, to be exact, and the film crew got a phone call stating that they had found the 5x5 in Nephi and to get up there. (it was a big 5x5).

If B&C would do there homework I doubt this bull would be in the records.

Jon, that same information has been coming out of Utah since before the bull was killed. Not much gets past Utah hunters and the areas they hunt. I know several outfitters and guides down there in that area, one was actually involved in the hunt, and some of the same things from them are being said. I also work with a dozen or so guys that are all very avid hunters, all from Utah, and I hhave never seen a more dedicated bunch of hunters. I never took anything from the animal, or the fact it is or was a great trophy, I just have a problem with "posse hunting" and unlimited funds to put an animal in the book. Good for Austad for having the money, but there is more to a hunt and hunting, than the record book at all cost attitude, which is ruining hunting. All of which snelly could care less about. I agree,B&C should dig just a tiny bit deeper, but who really cares any more? This isn't the first time Moss has used the same method for record book animals, and it works, you just need lots of cash and lots of trackers, spotters, and many sets of eyes in the field!

[]

I guess hunting is becoming more and more like politics, Money will get your name in lights...it becomes such a priority to have that trophy,they want it that badly, that the core concept of hunting easily falls by the wayside.
Money can do strange things to people who have lots of it, and strange things to those that want lots of it.

We as hunters get into a lot of debates about ethics and "fair chase". This thread is a great example of why it is important.

It we, as a hunting community, do not police ourselves, then how can be trusted with a public resource like the animals we hunt and the land we hunt on?

There is no one in the US right now that is a "subsistance hunter". I make this statement intentionally as I dare any person to demonstrate that someone in the US has to hunt in order to eat.

With that said, hunting is a recreational activity or a sport or a pasttime. Any non-essential activity in our lives needs to be pursued via a set of ethics or "rules". Golf is a great example. Again, show me a sport where the integrity of the activity lies solely with the individual participant. Golfer have a set of rules and ethics that guide the sport.

Hunters try to, but we have a hard time agreeing on what is "fair chase" or what is "ethical" hunting behavoir.

I offer that the keeping of "records" for personal aggrandizement is totally unethical. I do not care whether it is Boone and Crocket or Rowland and Ward or SCI. It is wrong to place value or a level of accomplishment on the horns or skull of a dead animal. Second, the method by which an animal is killed is important. The process and the killing must be done in an ethical manner.

What is that ethical manner? I have defined that for me, but we as a hunters have not defined it adequately enough. Posse hunting, road hunting, scouting from aircraft, using range finders and a host of other "tools" to collect a "trophy" is more like mechanized killing and not hunting. Bass fishing tournaments or contests are worse - fish locators, radar, sonar, etc. do not equate to fair chase.

The emphasis on big or heavy or better is not why we should hunt. It you cannot answer "why" and "how", then you should not participate.

As to this "hunt" - the elk is the champion. He managed to elude 40 to 55 different hunters using every modern trick and long range weapons. He eluded "pro" guides and moved to a new area.

How many of you could do that for one day let alone most of a season?

The man that ulitimately fired the killing shot was not the "winner". He does not have my respect nor that of any self-examining, self-bounded ethical hunter.