The ballistics have me impressed also the fact that its not belted . Anyone have experience with this caliber? Hows it doing. Was thinking of getting one in Sakos model 75 Deluxe, but they don't make it in that caliber yet.Velocity , if i am correct is higher then the . 340 WBY and the .338 Lapua.

To the hand loader, the .338 Ultra, Lapua, and .340 Weatherby are all very close in performance. All are going to push a 250gr bullet at or near 3000fps. The .330 Dakota comes in about 100 fps slower.

The drawbacks to these over achievers are excessive recoil, voracious powder appetite, and lower barrel life. Otherwise, they can drive a 250gr bullet about as fast as physically possible.

While these are magnificant long range cartridges, they need 26 and 28 inch barrels to suck the last drop of velocity and powder from their caverness hulls.

I shoot the 338 Win because its much kinder on the shoulder, deadly accurate and gets peak velocity out of a 24-inch pipe. It also kills just as well as the faster .33s out at 300 yards. The 338 Win also totes much nicer, as mine is around 7.5 lbs fully dressed for elk hunting.

Try that with the above, they should be closer to 10 lbs ready rifles for recoil absorbtion, but typically there not. Besides, try pushing bush for elk at 10,000 ft. with a 10 lbs, 26 or 28 inch barrel snagging everything in sight. No thanks, I'll stick with my 338 Win, it flattens elk just fine.

[ 02-20-2003, 03:23: Message edited by: rossi ]

Rossi-
I'm curious about your comments regarding the "hot" 33cal rounds. Have you used one on game? If so, what species and at what range?

My 338Ultra dotes on the 210XLC at 3400fps.

Rest assured,that critters notice that sorta abuse upon their anatomy. It is more impressive than paper energy figures can accurately translate.

She's for real,should you have a hankerin'............

Big Stick - A 210gr @ 3400? What sorta load are you pushing? How many rounds do you estimate you will get before setback?

Having shot out a .30-378 twice, I can attest that hyper velocity and huge powder charge weights will end a bore in very short order. I am interested in your load data....

I shoot 99grs of Re-22.

Having never shot the first barrel out,I could not offer a determination upon life expectancy.

When it pukes,I'll happily rebarrel...............

Big Stick - Re-barreling is no big deal. You never know, you might come up with a more accurate bore! The XLC coating is giving you some extra performance with your load. I would not recommend this load with naked bullets...

Mine is a fairly standard load with the 250 gr Nosler Partition at 3000 fps. I have some 225 gr SST's and some 250 gr Sierra BTSP's for whitetail around here but I have a hankerin' to try some 185 gr XLC's at around 3500 just for grins... Mine is a 27" Pac-Nor #5 tube screwed into a SS M700 action and nestled into a McMillan Sako Varminter stock.

[ 02-20-2003, 07:34: Message edited by: Chris Jamison ]

Drift,

I had it built with a good barrel to start
with,as accuracy was a focal point.

I denoted the coated bullet in hopes that folks would recognize that and tread lightly with nekked ones.

As an aside,Saeed's data on the cartridge,exceeded my data(he went 100.0grs for 3427fps outta his barrel used in his evaluations). I stopped at 99.0grs as accuracy is stellar and it had performance to match. I've yet to lose a case and that is most indicative of sane pressures.

It is a chambering that easily melds numerous positive attributes,for a gent so inclined. Nothing is for everyone and certainly this cartridge is no exception.

For a guy wanting a big 33,I believe it to be the cream of the crop. Your mileage may vary..........

My vote goes for the .338 Ultramag. I have a M700 action that wears a 28", #8 Krieger barrel with a Vias brake added to the end. Sits in a McMillan Remington Hunter stock, Stainless steel bottom metal. A leupold 6.5*20 50mm is mounted in stainless steel rings and bases I made myself. One of Mr. Jewells trigger's lights the fire. Gun weights in just over 13lbs, and I've done my fair share pushing elk through the oak brush toting it. The right sling is a BIG help. 250g Nosler Partition Golds are my bullet of choice for elk, 3050fps with 89g of RL 25. Gun also shoots Sierra 250g Gamekings, 225g Barnes XLC, 180g Balistic Tips all extremely well.

John S,

Not quite sure what your curious about as most of my comment was based on my practical experiencecs with a light handling 338 Win Mag. No I have not taken a game animal with the 338-378 Wby, 340 Wby, 338 Ultra or the 338 Lapua.

Some of my elk hunting fraternity use the 340 Wby and the 338-378 Wby, in which I have had the pleasure of pounding down range at our gun range several times. The 338-378 Wby definately needs the muzzlebrake for long work with heavy bullets. Remington is reluctant to brake their 338 Ultra chambered rifles because they know their is strong critisism to muzzlebrakes (noise being the most profound of that critisism). But their cartridge is not much smaller than a 338-378 Wby, so go figure. Its plain to see that you can expect significant recoil from a cartridge that is loaded with 100 plus grains of powder pushing 250 grain bullets with no brake.

I can convey from the 2001 season that my hunting partner canned a mid-sized bull (5x5) with a Texas Heart Shot out of a 340 Wby at 135 yards with a 250 grain Partition. We dug the Partition out of the upper brisket. That gives you an idea of the power of the fast .33s. However, my 250 grain Hawk load (2710 fps) out of my 338 Win Mag would have done pretty much the same. It has been a supurb load and bullet on elk throughout my years of using it.

The 338-378 Wby is a beast to say the least. In the 2000 Season, my co-worker and co-hunter took a nice Alaskan moose at just shy of 300 yards. Again, 250 grain Partitions. Three shots, each through the lungs in a baseball cluster size. The moose never took more than 3 steps and crashed.

I respect Big Stick as a hunter and a commentator of hunting and reloading. He, in my opinion, is in the mind set of the late Roy Weatherby, whom I much admired. "Speed Kills", and I believe it does as any fast Barnes X design bullet rattling around in a rib cage is most disasterous. It was Big Stick's commentary that conviced me the 7mm Rem Mag is the best thing since sliced bread when loaded fast with 120 and 130 grain fodder. I now concur after setting one up and using it on mule deer.

My hunting of elk, which is my primary quarry with the .33 is done at ranges from 3 yards to 300 yards (scope is a fixed 2.5x20 Sightron). Longest shot is 265 yards, closest is around 65 yards. I have no use for extened range cartrideges for this task. However, I do not discount their use. If I strictly glass and stalk (without much carry) and know my shots to be 300-600 yards out, then I would consider a faster .33, with 29 inch #3 contour in an 11.5 lbs package (scoped) pushing the heavier bullets with high BC cleaving the air (low wind drift and drag) and killing big game (elk, moose and bear) at 550 yards with ease.

Take Care,
rossi

rossi-
I asked because so many comments about this subject are made by people who have never hunted with or even fired one of these type cartridges. They hear this storyline from a from gunwriters or their buddy's buddy...and so it must be true.
I agree with many of your comments about the 338, it does get full velocity with 24" barrels and it doesn't recoil too badly in a light rifle. I've used one on several head of game myself, in Africa as well as on elk and deer here in the states.
It is because of that experience that I sold mine and built the 33G&A I own currently. It is much the same thing as the Ultra except for the full 404 diameter head size. My loads typically use from 92grs to 95grs of powder and deliver 3000-3150fps depending on the bullet weight I'm using. My rifle weighs 7-1/2 pounds ready to hunt and kicks pretty stoutly, but not so bad a seasoned big bore shooter can't handle it. It doesn't need a 28" or longer barrel to give velocities that are more than useful, mine delivers all I need/want from the 26".
I will suggest that if you haven't noticed a difference between something like the RUM and your 338, used at any range, you might not have seen enough game killed with both to make that statement. That's not to say your 338 isn't any good, because it is a very good cartridge and serves many hunters quite well. It's just that there IS quite difference when a significant number of kills have been considered. Same thing applies to the 338 vs the 375. Many think the 338 is about the equal of the grand old lady, but enough experience with both usually shows the folly in that line of thought as well. YMMV.

[ 02-20-2003, 22:24: Message edited by: John S ]

JohnS,
Your pretty sure about that are you? Maybe so, but I fail to see much difference in the 338, 375 or the 9.3x62 and I base that on a lot of experience with all three on big animals.. As long as they all have proper bullet construction, the results in the field are pretty much the same...

Are you basing this on experience or something you read?? I believe that was your question, therefore I must ask how many large animals have you shot with the 338 and 375 to make your comparison?

John S,

A 33G&A, I just read a bunch about all the G&A cartridges (cool stuff). I would be in full agreement with most things you have said. And I know your experience in taking heavier game out weighs mine. My only contesting was to the typical weight the fast .33s should be (10.5 lbs plus) vs. what they typically are (8.5 lbs).

On the other hand, if one wishes to tote a 13 lbs rifle w/30" barrel (w/brake) from 8,000 ft. to 11,000 ft and back down again all day, as AJ300MAG has mentioned, more power to em. If one wishes to pull the trigger on a .33 in Ultra, 338-378, etc., out of a rifle as light as yours, again, more power to em.

I would most likely stretch for a faster .33 in Africa as digesting terrain would be a bit more horizontal, in most cases, than vertical. But for Rocky Mtn Elk, I am wholeheartedly pleased with the .338 Win over the years, especially in the weight, length, overall handling, and performance of my rifle.

In 2000, I shot a 5x6 bull elk south of Silt, CO at around 9,000 ft with my 338 and a Hawk bonded core spitzer. It was late in the day and I had no intention of tracking this guy, so I passed on the soft lung shot and took the shoulder. The bull buckled and crashed right where he stood, which was 225 yards from me. The Hawk went through both shoulders and exited. I realize the faster .33s are better on paper and typically better on game (especially at extended ranges), but in the hunt I just described, I doubt that bull would have hit the ground any faster regardless of a bit more energy and speed.

rossi

[ 02-21-2003, 00:23: Message edited by: rossi ]

Well Ray, I've been hunting big game for 30yrs and have taken plenty of game with the 338, 33G&A and 375. I'm quite sure the count is over 50 for the 338. The 375 has been around the world with me on several occasions as well and it's accounted for plenty of game too. I've seen more than enough game taken with these calibers to base my opinion on, even if it doesn't agree with yours.

[ 02-21-2003, 01:19: Message edited by: John S ]

rossi-
Again, the 338 is a very good cartridge, no denying that. However, I just feel that the faster cartridge is overall a more decisive killer, based upon my own experiences. Some with more or different experiences than I might want to question that but that's my story and I'm sticking with it!

Rossi, We hunt just around the corner from you. We're just north of Debeque. Nice thing about the area is with all the gas wells up on the mountain there's good trails to move around on with a truck. We glass the area and then push the elk to the shooters. So we spend a lot of time in trucks. If you do the walking, it's only a mile or two. Only problem I've had is the quakies and stepping over the fallen logs. My favorite saying this past season was "I ain't doin any more f#@$%n quakies". They look great until you get into em. Our shots can be anywhere from 50 yards out to 500. One in our crew hit a bull square in the shoulder with a .338WM, 250g Partition, standing broadside at 230 yards. Bullet must have hit square on the joint, only broke the leg! Shot was just before dark. The guide didn't want to push him. Had to go out the next morning to finish him off. Never got a good look at the internal damage, we had to take a few critters down to the processing plant so we didn't skin him. We do know that the bullet didn't make it into the vitals. Load was a Federal Premium. I wouldn't replace a .338WM with a ultra, this is my first rifle in that caliber.

Having shot a .338WinMag for about 15 years, I can attest to much of what John S is stating. Today, I shoot a hopped up .338 (.330 Dakota). I can attest that another 200 fps with a proper bullet makes a big difference on terminal performance. I was concerned about the standard Nosler Partition holding up to higher impact velocities, so I switched over to the non-coated Golds. AJ300MAG�s story is exactly what I was concerned with.

Unfortunately, I have yet to recover a single 250gr Nosler Gold because I have yet to be able to stop one. However, from the wound channel, the bone damage, and general internal goo, the bullets are holding together and the bullet's influence on tissue is considerable and messy

Just on another thread everyone was pontificating to slow the .375 down for better performance. Here we are saying to speed up the .338 for better terminal performance. I am not a firm believe that speed alone kills, but when you combine speed with a proper bullet, the effects are noticeable. The hopped up .338's may or may not kill �better� but they hit awfully hard.

ZD, I took my cow at 150 yards running down a hill side this past season with the "Part Gold Molly Free" Not a real test though. I hit her just below the ear, didn't need too much penetration. She looked like she was gonna get back up, second shot thru the heart and lungs changed her mind. That bullet went thru and thru, saw the bullet impact in the hill behind her.

JohnS,
Calm down just thought I gig you a little and it worked

There must be something that we don't know about the story of the elk that took the 250 NP in the shoulder at a very reasonable range of 230 yd. and didn't die. Over the years I have not always got an exit with the 33's and the 250 NP on a shoulder shot but the animal has always died quickly.

I'm not trying to piss anyone off but could the elk have been angled a little forward and perhaps the bullet slightly deflected forward by the bone thus causing the bullet to not cause much damage to the lungs?

Sorry but after shooting a load of stuff with the 33's it is just hard for me to wrap my head around an animal not dying after a broadside shot at moderate range with a 250 NP.

Ray claims that all expanding bullets will fail at sometime. Maybe this is one of those times.

As for the original question I think you would be very well served by any of the 33's. If you choose the hotter ones other than the 338-378 I think you can get accustomed to the recoil in a rifle that weighs perhaps 8.5-9 pounds field ready.

[ 02-21-2003, 05:00: Message edited by: MARK H. YOUNG ]

I'm not here to defend the 338 Win Mag in any way as it has an outstanding 40 plus year track record in the field. Fact is, the 338 Win Mag canned a great deal of cape buffalo handily in the late 50s and through the 60s by prominent hunters and writers. It did so with much less bullet and powder integrity than what is offered today. I'm not advocating it's use on buff, but the facts are undisputable. The faster 33s are great and a most welcome addition to todays choices, enjoy whatever strikes your fancy.

Take Care,
rossi

Mark, I wasn't on the scene when he hit the bull so I didn't witness the shot. The bull was standing broadside just below the crest of the ridge. It was close to the end of shooting light. The guide was watching the bull thru bino's, said that he saw the front leg "flip over the back of the bull" on the shot. He figured the shot low, broke the leg. The next morning we spotted the bull from across the draw laying down in the oak brush about 30 yards from where he was origionaly hit. We guided the hunter and guide into the bull, who was still very much alive. Three shots finaly took him down (he was running straight away, nobody wanted to hit the hams). I was on a ridge blocking his exit, so I wasn't at the sight when they did the gutt job. The shoulder was definitely broken, I helped load him into the truck. We never got to check better, we had a few other animals to take down for processing, so we had them remove the hide. I've wondered if he didn't hit some brush, the shooter said that he hit him exactly where he aimed. I've seen partitions come apart in elk, so I went with the "Golds".

I shot the 338 Ultra Mag for two seasons, and only got rid of it because I wasn't getting the velocity I wanted with the 210 XLC's, and instead, I opted for the .308 Warbird. I shot two deer and one elk with the Ultra. First deer, Big Mule deer, at about 75-100yds, with a 210gr Partition w/ MV of 32-3300fps. Hit him in the spine and completely severed it by a section of about 2 or 3 vertabrae..absolutely devastating, the bullet(rear core) then continued under the ribs and out the other side. The sheer impact turned the lungs into a dark red clump of jelly. Second deer (this season's) fell to the 210gr Partition at about 275yds..hit him far back ON the shoulder and dropped him where he stood, no way he was able to get up. The damage was impressive to say the least. Complete pass through. The Elk, a 4x5 raghorn was shot at about 40-50yds, with a 250gr Factory Swift A Frame...33" dia. going in, 1" dia. going out...hit nothing but ribs and lungs. Wish I would've had a Partition for that shot. I think the partition would've caused a little more damage (because of the lesser integrity of the front core) and it would've made a more dramatic wound channel, and a little more trauma. He might not have run as far. He ran for about 15yds uphill, and toppled over (not far, but still...). I'm convinced of the fast .33's, and wouldn't mind owning another one, but I just got a .375 that I'm rechambering to .375 Wby, so I've got that area covered.

[ 02-21-2003, 08:36: Message edited by: the444shooter ]

If anyone shoots an elk through the shoulder or going away for that matter with a 250 gr. Nosler in a 338, it is going to kill that animal and anyone that sez different it just full of it or didn't stick that bullet where they thought...

I have shot a number of Cape Buffalo with the 338 using mostly 300 gr. Woodliegh solids and a few with softs and a couple with Nosler 250 gr. partitions and they worked every time and again I cannot tell any difference in them and the good old 375 with which I have shot a number of buffalo and elk...

I have shot completely through a Elk lenthwise on more than one ocassion and nearly thourgh Cape buffalo lenthwise on several ocassions with the 300 Gr. Woodligh soft and solid....the 338 is as good as the 9.3's or the 375 H&H in the field and you cannot tell any difference...

Most everyone that wounds an animal hit it square though the sholders, I have noticed over the years.. Alas, I doubt these stories and take them with a grain of salt, and have to admit I get a little bored with hearing them. I suppose such things happen and it is freakish, but it is a rare occurance...

My Elk Hunting partner uses a custom made 338/378 Weatherby built on a Ruger #1 action with a 30" Krieger barrel! It has a muzzle brake on it also! He uses a Shepherd Elk ranging scope (3.5X10 power as I recall) and its an Elk killing machine! I was lying right beside him 2 years ago when he killed a beautiful 7X7 Bull Elk here in Montana! That Hunt and shot was a real highlight of my Hunting career! I had seen the Rifle in action before and since and it is an amazing tool! For Elk Hunting at times in open country and in todays hunting climate I think it is a valuable tool. My partner has killed Elk with it at 500 yards on more than one occassion. I bought a three die set of Redding 338/378 Weatherby dies for myself out of a pawn shop for $20.00! The dies are in perfect shape and I had it in my mind that if I want to be serious about Elk Hunting I needed this caliber in this country! The recoil even from my partners muzzlebraked Rifle is just more than I want to endure! Its going to take some mental manipulation for me to touch of 110 grains of powder and a 250 grain bullet in a Ruger #1 sized Rifle! I guess the purpose of my posting is to warn those not familiar with these large 338's that their recoil must be considered! I considered it and decide to hold off for now and just kill the Elk with my 7mm Remington Magnum.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I have a .338 RUM, buildt on a Winchester pre'64, SS action. I love it!!
I cant wait to use it the next huntingseason.
But you have to take some beating, there is no doubt about that. But that does'nt bother me. Just make sure you have the rifle buildt right for you, so it will transfer recoil straight backwords, and not up. Use a good recoilcap (Pachmayr, Triple Mag) and have a scope with plenty of eyerelief, and this rifle will do you no harm!!

Here is something weird, a 225 gr .338 XLT shot from a 340 wby at a mule deer buck broadside aprox 300 yards one hit the shoulder and did not exit the bullet was lodged in far side hide and same deer with second shot because it did not drop bullet behind the shoulder same thing did not exit. Both bullets were picture perfect mushrooms and heart and lungs were toast. I wonder what would of happened if that was an elk quarting away or for that matter towards me?????