A question has come up more than once where a game animal was hit high in the "lungs" and it got away.

I asked my doctor (MD) today what the lungs are like inside a animal and he said that while they fill the chest cavity even when the animal breaths out. But he said that at the perifery (outside surface) of the lungs the blood vessels are much smaller than those near the center of the lungs or near the heart.

So the point is that perhaps a bullet hole at the edge of the lungs is not always a fatal shot!

In general my observation has been that a lung shot below the horizontal centerline of the animal's body is probably three to four times as effective as one above the centerline. Some time ago Saeed posted pictures of animals with what he called the pay line on the illustrations. Hit behind the vertical or abaove the horizontal, and the chances increase dramatically that you will pay for something you don't get.

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Gerard Schultz
GS Custom Bullets

You bring up a very overlooked point IMO. Anatomy isn't something that most people spend much time studying. The idea is very true in that by learning the anatomy, a rifleman can place a bullet into the "kill zone" with more consistancy. I think if you're truly interested and look, you'll find that the major veins and arteries into and out of the lungs as well as the heart have a higher density in the area just behind the shoulder crease and about 1/3 the way up from the bottom of the chest. This would be the 10 ring if it were marked. Unfortunately it's not always the easiest shot to make, but by knowing where that happy spot is you can put one through it if you use enough gun. A shot slightly off of this spot may still be fatal but not as quick of a kill and farther away yet may be a wounded animal you have to chase.
This is a good topic to discuss with everyone not just new hunters, as many people never really give it much thought. Thanks for bringing this up, it's a good reminder.

Agree with Gerard...high lung shots aren't nearly as effective or as quick acting as shots into the lower area of the lungs.

CORRECTED A TYPO...Should have read, as it does now, "aren't nearly as effective as shots into the lower area...."

[This message has been edited by DB Bill (edited 02-28-2002).]

Many years ago, I had one lung punctured in two places by broken ribs suffered in an automobile accident. The lung deflated fairly quickly, was more than uncomfortable, but not permanently incapacitating, as you might have guessed by now---food for thought---

I have never witnessed it myself but I have read of several instances of finding HEALED bullet wounds in elks lungs.

The only time I had a deer run any great distance was when it was hit high, near the top of the lung. It was the second deer that I had shot, and i was a little nervous, and held high. It taught me a lesson, now I hold much lower. FWIW

Good luck and good shooting

I KNOW that there is a gap though small between the lower part of the spine and the top of the lungs on Elk and Eland. because I have seen this and the hits were in effect totally none fatal..both were killed with follow up shots... had the bullet struck perhaps and inch higher or lower it would have been more effective, particularly an inch higher...I studied both shots very carefully.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Last week I watched the most amazing home video of a friends whitetail bowhunt from Dec 8, 2000.

He made what looked like a perfect shot on a HUGE (23" inside) twelve point buck that was quartering away. On slo-mo you can see the arrow entering just forward of the last rib and then hitting the ground forward of the off shoulder.

That buck hopped about 15 yards and then stopped behind some thin brush from my friend where he was in plain view of the camera, but to far and to brushy for a follow-up shot.

The only indication that buck gave of being injured was that his tail was twitching rapidly like a sheep does. For 22 minutes he stood stock still, head high, eyes alert and his ears flipping back and forth. The buck then slowly started walking across an opening until he disappeared over a hill 47 minutes after the shot, his tail twitching the whole time.

My friend waited 3 hours to follow the trail. The arrow was completely covered in blood. The next blood he found was where the buck stood for so long. Maybe a teaspoon full. He could only find 3 or 4 drops where the buck had crossed the opening. When he got to the top of the hill the buck was hanging dead in a fence he couldn't make it over.

A postmortem revealed the arrow had entered about the middle of the very rear of the left lung and then traveled downward below the right lung and exiting just behind and slightly above the heart, missing the aorta.

It took more than 47 minutes for that buck to bleed to death - his left lung was still inflated.

If the buck had been spooked or otherwise ran off, it is doubtful my friend would have ever found him. If that shot was made with a rifle, I'm sure he would have ran. Would a rifle have killed any quicker? Would a bullet have left a better blood trail? I don't know for sure, but I don't think so. The broadhead he used has a 1 1/2" diameter.

If the arrow had been centered through both lungs I am confident that buck wouldn't have gone 100 yards and would have been dead within a very few minutes.

Where in the lung you hit them is VERY important.

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The older I get the better I was.

The area sorrounding the lungs is called the pleural space. If a lung is punctured and leaking air it is called pneumothorax.If only one lung is affected, over time a tension pneumothrax will develop and affect the other lungs ability to expand. This is known as a tension pneumothrax. If a major vessel(ie. pulmonary vein or pulmonary artery)is hit, the lungs may fill up with blood. This is known as a hemothorax. It is my belief that the key is to hit both lungs, which does not always happen on angling shots.
Just a thought...

Ray: The first moose I ever shot was about 300 yards out, and I was on high ground. I aimed high on the lungs as I supported the rifle on a tree branch, and fired twice. I forgot to aim low (downhill). Those two first bullets did exactly what you mentioned in your replay. The third shot was very low, so the bullet broke both legs and the moose dropped (I later had to take a killing shot at close range). The bullets that missed the lungs, left two small holes next to each other, and right between the lungs and the spine.

Since then I aim low on the lungs and right behind the shoulder bone. This shot will hit the heart and the lungs.

Experience with both arrow and bullet has shown me that lung shots are the fastest, most reliable way of dispatching an deer and elk sized game quickly. More often than not scary fast!

HOWEVER, very rarely because of the animal's anatomy combined with shot placement and the weapon used, (and Murphy's Law) death is not as sudden and decisive as we would like. What this has taught me is a simple rule of thumb: After the shot, if you don't see the animal go down for the count, then PATIENCE is often the best follow-up shot there is.

Ol'Sarge, I think you're right on the money.

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Toxophilie and carry a bent stick.
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Ol Sarge, it could have been worse than that. I shot an elk last year, and due to the steep angle (and my lousy shooting), I only popped one lung. Hit low, and the bullet exited the brisket. That bull went for 4 hours, and about a mile. It takes two lungs to bring them down quick.

On the other hand, the bull I shot three years ago, I managed to thread underneath the spine and OVER the lungs --diagonally from the rear, enter behind the last rib, cracking the last to front rib on the far side. The bullet never hit either the spine or the lungs, but the bull was down in about 10 yards. It never seems to happen like in the hunting shows...... FWIW, Dutch.

The two most successful hunters that I know,both have similar points of aim.One aims behind and below the shoulder;the other aims behind the elbow. Myself,I have best results aiming behind the shoulder,at the lower half.
Now,it gets curious. Last fall,because of poor shooting,I hit a walking deer in the left shoulder. The bullet exited in front of the right shoulder. The deer dropped on the spot,and could not get up;he just twitched his tail.He was dying,when I shot him again.
I don't butcher my deer any more,so I don't know what killed that animal. The bullet was too low to hit the spine. I used a soft lead bullet.
The only other shoulder hit that I did see,resulted in an immobilized animal in great pain,but not fatally wounded.
After fifty years of hunting,I still cannot say,with certainty,what a bullet will do when it hits a particular spot.
Frank

I shoot for just above the heart or lower half of the lungs.
I shot a black bear @ about 100 yards away and it looked to be high lungs.(338 Win Mag. 225gr. Partitions) A buddy who has alot of hunting experience was with me. The bear did a short semi circle and dropped out of site. I figured we would find him right there. Never did find him(pissed me off). We followed a good blood trail for a 1/4 mile before the bear got into a swamp. I have seen this on other game as well. I believe that there is an area between the lung and the spine that can screw with your intentions on killing that animal.

Daryl

The area between the spine and the lungs on high shot placement is called no mans land. The bullet will hit eighter lung and also pass below the spine. The bullet in most cases will not expand and only produce a bullet sized puncture wound.
The heart lays very low in the chest cavity of most all game animals. I have found just behind the point of the leg called the elbow joint will produce the most effective results in bullet placement. Holding half up the body often places the bullet in no mans land because most all shooters hit to high when the rifle recoils shooting off hand. If you place an imaginary line half way up the body front to back on the animal. Then place your shot half way between that line and the bottom of the body line just behind the point of the elbow you will not get hits in no mans land. To few hunters study animal anatomy to know where to place their shots on a given animal species. In particular animals like Moose, Bison, Elk, Caribou, Bear. The vast majority of hunters are deer hunters and never hunt any other game animal. Should they get the chance to hunt game other than deer, and a shot is presented to them, they shoot that animal the same place as the deer they hunt and forget to adjust for the change in body size of the animal. It would do all us hunters good to take the time to know the game animal we hunt, and where to shoot that animal if a shot is presented. They walk on four legs and the heart lays low in their chest behind the elbow point of the front leg when standing normal. Many shots at game are to high on the body and pass between or over major organs.

Daryl: You are correct about why your bear disappeared. The bullet probably injured it, but not enough to kill it.

A bear's heart (like Reloaderr66 says) is located low on the chest between the legs, depending on how the legs are positioned when a bear is standing up. Sometimes the near shoulder bone may get in the way, while other times the far shoulder bone will be hit by the bullet after going through the heart. I shoot moose so that the bullet almost touches the shoulder bone. I don't hunt bears, but I am very interested in bear anatomy.

http://www.state.ak.us/local/akpages/FISH.GAME/wildlife/geninfo/hunting/huntak16.htm

[This message has been edited by Ray, Alaska (edited 03-03-2002).]