My Idaho outfitter has some openings this Spring (April/May/June) if anyone wants to go on a good baited bear hunt. The outfitter is VERY hard working and the Department of Wildlife estimated 20 bear per square mile in the area last year. For this reason, in addition to the standard Idaho hunting license ($128.50), the bear tags are only $31.50 and it is a two bear area (That's right, you can take TWO with NO additional trophy fee)!
The price below includes wall-tented camp, food, cook, all transportation, and skinning and freezing of hide/meat. Just bring a sleeping bag and a rifle and you are ready to go.

The prices are

$1500 for five days (extra days are negotiable but you won't need them)

$191.50 in licenses for both bears.

Total - $1691

Not too bad considering one of our own posters (NE450No2) took a BRUISER bear up here on his birthday last year! If anyone is interested, drop me an email at john_salevurakis@hotmail.com or send me a PM here on AR.

Best,

JohnTheGreek

WOW!!! John, that sounds like a very good deal!! I've got two Canadian black bears now, but I'd sure like a color phase. What are the odds of taking one on this hunt? Any other additional cost?

OK, youve got my attention! Do you expect to have fall hunts as well?

I'm not against this hunt. Heck, I'd like to go, but I'm definitely calling BS! on the 20 bear per square mile statement. Somebody has their numbers grossly exaggerated! Maybe more like 2 to 3 bears per square mile would be more realistic, and that's probably too high.

All,

I should have mentioned that most bears taken in this area are NOT black. Most are cinnamon or chocolate. One hunter last year saw but did not shoot a calico bear that was blonde with a black rump and cinnamon head. WOW! I would have given my left arm for that one! A week later a 23 year old kid on his first western hunt took a near 7 foot chocolate bear with a B&C skull and canine teeth worn down to the gums. SWEET!

Mark,

You have email

Wstrnhuntr,

Yes, the outfitter does offer fall hunts. They are both good options for someone looking for a different color-phase bear. Drop me an email if you have any other questions.

BigSky,

Call bullshit if you like but this is not exaggeration. It is not ordinary by any stretch but I have been up there with hunters who have seen three different bears at the same stand in a single night. I saw four one night. The bears are literally a problem here and are seriously damaging the elk population. The rule up here is shoot the first mature bear you see for elk management purposes and then hold out for the big one. If you like, feel free to email me further.

Best,

JohnTheGreek

Call bullshit if you like but this is not exaggeration.

Okay JohnTheGeek, now you are irritating me. The above statement about it not being an exaggeration is a bold faced lie! I just got off the phone with the Idaho Fish and Game. The highest bear populations in the state of Idaho are in unit 10 and unit 12. The bear desity in either unit is less than 1 bear per square mile. That is a direct quote from the Idaho Fish and Game. Before you go spouting off with more pure B.S. Vancouver Island off the coast of British Columbia (you know the place Jim Shockey guides on) has a bear density of 1 bear per square mile. It's the same for Prince of Wales in Southeast Alaska. Both places are considered to be about as high as bear densities get. You are either misinformed or full of sh!t take your pick, but I can back mine up with data from Fish and Game you can not.

Big sky,

Wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? First, I don't appreciate being called a liar and I doubt you would have the courage to do so so flatly were it not for this veil of anonymity called the internet. Second, to be frank, I have been there. I have been there when mutiple stands well within a square mile of one another have seen multiple bears on the same night. I have been there when, within a week, six nice bears have been taken by five hunters. I have been there when the rest of those hunters passed on second bears during that week just to save themselves the hassle of getting it mounted or passed because they saw a female with multiple cubs. Hell Big Sky, I'll even cut you a deal on this hunt if you want to go just to see the populations in this area. I suspect that is what you are squawking for anyway.

Best,

JohnTheGreek

I worked as a black bear manager for over ten years in Washington state. AS many folks who follow bears know Wa. state has the highest black bear population in the lower 48. During this time I did several population studies on our higher then average bear populations.

A square mile is 640 acres and there is noplace on earth where 20 bears live full time on that small an area. With that said there are bear densities that can seasonally be quite high. When I was a guide in SE Alaska I could easily see 20 plus bears in a one mile stretch of river while the salmon were in the streams. That Square mile could have had 50 bears per square mile but it was not the whole range or habitat.

To say the density is 20 per mile we need to first define "Density" strictly in technical game managemnet terms "density" means permenant not seasonal. That may be the struggle with the way this debate is being carried out. At times you can see a dozen black bears on Strawberry mountain eating the Monarch Butterfly larve. That may be on a 1/2 square mile area or less. That does not mean they live there all thier lives and can be used a a bear density study.

The Man doing the baiting may have 20 bears on a feeding station at one time or another but that does mot mean there are 20 bears on the neighboring square mile. In order to have a 20 bear per square mile density all the square miles must have this density in the whole game management unit. That is not found anyplace on our planet today.

Bears are not a high density animal. Imagine if you can 20 bears living all their lives on a square mile of land. The hunting would be easy without bait just wander about and you would certainly be bumping into them in the woods. High bear densities are about 2-3 per square mile and that is only in areas along the north Pacific coast. Only in this area can enough food be found in the amounts needed to satisfy that kind of population.

Even along the pacific coast that high bear density is seasonal to some degree. Those bears will wander inland to eat berries and sleep through the short winter they have. Once they leave the coast they spread out and lower the density by a large amount.

I just pulled a book from School (Wildlife managment in College) here is the offical statement from my text book which goes along with my personal experience in my wildlife management work.

Male black bears have an average home range of 42.8 square miles. Females 7.6 square miles. From this it can be seen that no bear will live it's whole life on a square mile with 19 other bears. Although it's certainly possible that at any given time 20 bears could be within an area a square mile in size. That is not the definition of "density" by big game management standards though.

Hope this clears up some of the confusion over bear density numbers.

JJHack: Good post. My experience in the Kootenays of BC certainly jives with your observations. The Kootenays have a decent black bear population for the interior of our province, and our year-round density is more like 0.20 bears per square mile. In the spring when they concentrate in riparian areas and on avalanche tracks, however, you'd swear the density was 100 times that high.



John the Greek: I know you are a man of your word, and I am sure your recommendation is sound and that the territory has a very high population of bears. I'd be skeptical about claims of 20 bears per square mile on any territory, though, unless it comes with a proviso like "10 out of the 5000 square miles in our territory has a seasonal density of 20 bears/sq-mile".



Big Sky: ??? I am not sure what J-T-G did to you? Whew...



Cheers,

Canuck

"Big Sky: ??? I am not sure what J-T-G did to you? Whew... "

I think it might have been :

"Call bullshit if you like but this is not exaggeration."

When in fact it was a bit of an Exageration it seems like ? But I'm not here to take sides, I jsut had a Question.

Not to Jump on the contraversy Banwagon, But what is the Length and Size of the Bears that your Guy is taking ? I'm not much of a Bear hunter but I hear Northern Idaho has some toads for bear. I'm guessing with 20bear/Mile2 they should be kicking out some Hogs !!

Thanx in Advance.

Moosie

Not sure if this bear came from the particular area in question, but I received this email of a bear killed in northern Idaho. According to the email it was 12' tall. That is one big "black" bear. If there is more of this offspring up there, I'd be willing to bet there are some monsters up there. If you ever decide to learn how to hunt bear, let me know, I'd be interested too...that is if you have room for company.

It would appear to me if we knew the specific area being talked about (20 yogi's per mile being the one I mean) it would appear that it would be quite easy to give the Spudsville F&G a call and see what they think. So what's the area and we can give a call tomorrow.

I'm with Big Sky though-me thinks something is not quite right here in the old bruin berry patch.

JJ-good post-while I am not schooled in the college sense of bruins, I am fairly confident with my school of hard knocks and I would agree with what you said.

One thing to think about here is I know of an area here in Montana where part of the year you'll see the occaisional bruin and part of the year the same darn area will have lots of bruins in it. I guess I am saying that the bruins in this outfitters area I would have to guess are congregated there for some reason or another but that in no way makes it a 20 bruin per square mile area.

Just my thoughts...

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

ps Big Sky after last years knee surgery I am big time biking (about 18 miles a day on the life cycle)it trying to be as ready as possible for this spring bruin season. I have a score to settle with a particular big brown bruin (I think he'll go in the top 20 or so of Montana). I've hunted him for 3 years-me thinks that maybe the 4th is gonna be the charm for me.

JJ,

Thanks for the clarification!

Canuck,

WHEW is right! I think I'll just stick to the below description of this hunt! Better, don't you think?


All,

How about this for a straight forward statement on bear densities in the area?

If you don't come home with a bear from this hunt you have one of these afflictions . . .

A) (Ursus Venator phlegmatus) This disease creates an urge in hunters to either smoke in the bear stand or hunt with a hacking cough as a result of smoking and thus they are heard by bears a mile away.
B) (Ursus Venator Stinkus): A disease which is characterized by the infected insisting he/she shower daily in town and with VERY fragrant soap (Irish Spring is the common choice) and the bears smell him/her from 2 miles away.
C) (Ursus Venator Fidgetus): A disease which is characterized by the infected continually messing with his/her rifle, scope caps, jacket zipper, boot laces etc. and the bears see him/her in the stand from well inside the tree line.

Barring any of these particular or related syndromes often afflicting bear hunters, the chance of success in this unit is extremely high.

Feel free to email me at john_salevurakis@hotmail.com

Best,

JohnTheGreek

John which unit is it in and who is the outfitter?

Gracias

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

First a couple of links:

2000 Bear Estimates:
http://www.conservationforce.org/roh/roh_get_articles.cfm?art_id=2

1997 Bear Estimates:
http://www.bear.org/Black/Black_Bear_Populations.html

This is a GPS tracking map of selected bear in a contigous non-hunted environment:
http://ursus.biology.ualberta.ca/blackbears/clawr_2002.htm

In short, I agree with JJHack.

I find that any blanket statement about numbers per sq mi to be location specific. That is to say, the carrying capacity varies, the bears own food choice changes during a season, and finally human activity can play a role.

I have no doubt that there are isolated situations where 20 bear per square mile does in fact occur. I would also suggest that there is a reason that this highly unusual behaviour is occuring. With out a biologist doing a study in the situation, everything becomes speculation.

John's claims of seeing 2,3 or more bear a day hitting bait in spring have often been heard from several areas. To extrapolate that into a bear per square mi figure is dicey. I would also guess that these sightings occurred in the early part of the season.

Respectfully,

Pete

Thank you for the offer and the post. I am wondering however if there is an opportunity to hunt on the ground in a spot and talk fashion rather than on bait. I dont care for baiting either while fishing or hunting but I do love Bear hunting. Is this a private land hunt or are these bear being baited in from a park area?
You have obviously been successful there but I would like alternate means of hunting if possible.
Thank you
Frank

Frank
I did this hunt in Sept of 2003. I have done spot and stalk hunts in Montana 12 different years. There is NO WAY you can hunt bear any other way than bait in this area. The forest is just too thick.The other hunter in camp wanted to check his rifle zero and shoot his bow, we had a hard time finding a place to shoot 50 yards.
This was my first bear hunt over bait, and it was a lot of fun. If I was not going to Africa in June I would do this Idaho hunt again this year.
This is a perfect hunt for your double rifle, your big bore or medium bore rifle, or your handgun. Be sure and take a shotgun so you can hunt grouse in the mornings. They are very good to eat.
P.S. the local elk hunters are REAL glad to see a person hunting bears.
I had a great time on my hunt.

Mark it's very likely I have listed the unit already by mentioning unit 10 and 12. Both of which have less than ONE bear per square mile. I don't doubt that this is a good hunt I just have an issue with the bogus number of bears per square mile. Combined with this JTG clown telling me I don't know what I'm talking about, I get a little testy. You won't find a biologist in Idaho that intends to keep his/her job that will claim 20 bears per square mile. What's next 1200 pound black bears with 30" skulls? Anyway for those you that like to go the source rather than speculate from your arm chair here you go:

HEADQUARTERS
600 S. Walnut, P.O. Box 25, Boise, ID 83707
Phone: (208) 334-3700
Fax: (208) 334-2114 or (208) 334-2148


PANHANDLE REGION
2750 Kathleen Avenue, Coeur d'Alene, ID 83815
Phone: (208) 769-1414
Fax: (208) 769-1418


CLEARWATER REGION
1540 Warner Avenue, Lewiston, ID 83501
Phone: (208) 799-5010
Fax: (208) 799-5012


SOUTHWEST REGION
3101 S. Powerline Road, Nampa, ID 83686
Phone: (208) 465-8465
Fax: (208) 465-8467


McCALL
555 Deinhard Lane, McCall, ID 83638
Phone: (208) 634-8137
Fax: (208) 634-4320


MAGIC VALLEY REGION
868 East Main Street, P.O. Box 428, Jerome, ID 83338
Phone: (208) 324-4350
Fax: (208) 324-1160


SOUTHEAST REGION
1345 Barton Road, Pocatello, ID 83204
Phone: (208) 232-4703
Fax: (208) 233-6430


UPPER SNAKE REGION
4279 Commerce Circle, Idaho Falls, ID 83401
Phone: (208) 525-7290
Fax: (208) 523-7604


SALMON REGION
99 Highway 93 North, P. O. Box 1336, Salmon, ID 83467
Phone: (208) 756-2271
Fax: (208) 756-6274

Frank
Not to steal JTG's post but...On bou hunts in Alaska in
the Taylor Mtns. and Nushagak Hills we avg seeing 9 bear a
day.Feeding in the berry patches.Very stalkable.

Dalliwacker
You crack me up.That picture/story will NEVER die.

Thank you for the replies. I just have a personal attitude about baiting I guess.
Jeff. Did you do a drop camp or go guided for the bou?
It seems I have seen Ted and his bear before. Was this the fluke kill of a really big bear jumping a couple of guys out on a walk? Very nice bear. Definitely an eye opening experience.
Frank

Frank
I hunted Alaska guided once...since then I DIY.

On blackies you should be able to stalk multiple bears if
your put in a good location.We did see some very nice bears.
And they are intent on the berries.Which makes it good for
stalking as they sit in the berries for quite a while if
not disturbed.I think you would like the hunt.If you want
some air taxi #'s let me know.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff, yes I would. The only information I have came from Rust's flying service and from a private pilot friend of mine who has relatives flying out of Anchorage. They are not guides or hunters really but will move people in where they want to go. I think I might want more experience.
Thanks
Frank

John,

You got mail

John. I am sorry if I sidetracked your post.
Your offer is very generous.
Thanks
Frank

Hey there is someplace in Idaho that has 20 bears per square mile

See the link
http://www.yellowstonebearworld.com/

Mark,

You have email!

Best,

JohnTheGreek

I am in agreement with JJHACK...unless that 1 square mile happens to be the local city dump!!! Most of the intermountain west is considered marginal bear habitat at best anyhow.

Seriously, densities like that would be 12800 bears in a township. Better get that dogfood, birdfeeder, BBQ grill, garbage, and small pets indoors...

MG