I set all my scopes on 3.5 inches high at 100 yds. From trajectory tables, I know what yardage is for my point blank range. Blacktail deer are 14 inches high from backbone to brisket. Cut that in half and look for a window of opportunity of 7 inches on game.

ON scopes with a duplex reticle instead of a dot, if one uses the lower verticle part of your cross hair where it goes from thick to thin as an aiming point, that gains about another 100 yds or so.

With a lot of my loads, that will give me point blank range of 300 to 350 and then using the lower site point, will give me to 400 to 450. I think that is WAY beyond what most ethical shooters should be using in the field, but I concede there are times that it is right in the hands of a guy who knows what he is doing.

That way and time spent at the range, I don't have to worry about 'Kentucky windage'. It does not bother me to come home empty handed during deer season. I don't believe that nature owes me a deer just because I paid $14.50 for a deer tag.

I also hunt with scopes where the zero is easily reset to 100 yds, like on a Leupold or a Weaver or Bausch and Lomb.

When I walk into heavy cover, I just set it back to zero at 100 yds.

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

Interesting and well-supported responses. I appreciate the time you folks took to contribute to this thread.



I will share with you my feelings on the matter.



I recently had a hunt in the Apache National Forest, in Arizona, where I just could not get closer to my quarry than... well, many yards away. Those of you who saw "The Guns of Will Sonnet" may be able to appreciate when I say that my rifle (.338 RUM) was capable of making some of the shots I was presented and "I" was capable of making some of the shots I was presented. No brag, just fact. However, my optics were not set up for these longer shots. I was using a Burris Black Diamond 4-16x50mm with the Ballistic Mil-Dot reticle. I was "good" out to 550 yards but had not used the scope for shots farther than that. In the conditions of which I'm speaking, I had NO wind to deal with. I'd have not hesitated to take one particular shot, except that I refuse to "lob artillery" and, not having the scope set up for the range I was presented, I passed. However, my thinking is now this: after a few western hunts, I'm realizing that I've surprised game far fewer times than those occasions when I've seen it and it had no idea I was around... occasions when I had plenty of time to dial in the correct elevation. So, after my Arizona trip, I sold my Black Diamond and reinstalled the Weaver Grand Slam I originally had on the rifle.



Now, I know some of you guys only swear by Leupolds and such... but I've personally had good glass from a number of makers. However, "my" experience, to include with Leupolds of many different models, is that only one brand of scope does what you tell it to where clicks are concerned -- Weaver. Anyway... my .338 RUM is wearing the Weaver again and I'll be dialing in for elevation at "long" distances. I'm sure I'll have some kind of "set" zero, like three high and three low out to wherever three low turns out to be... but beyond that, I'm dialing in from now on.



Again, let me say that, especially on my recent trip, there was no such thing as "getting closer." Believe me, I wasn't looking for an excuse to shoot long-distance. However, long-distance doesn't frighten me. I've shot to 1,000 yards with iron sights using an M14 and done pretty well.



I dumped the Burris because I did not have "personal" confidence in engaging targets at "between" ranges and I couldn't guarantee that I'd always be able to back up or go forward to 500 or 600 yards, or whatever, to make an "exact-range" shot. No, for westerns hunts from now on, for "me," I'm going to dial in for anything out past 300 yards, give or take.



I recently gained access to a farm where I can take some pretty long shots and I can use the readouts from my chronograph, along with actual shooting, to see how things will sort themselves out in the field. Still, I wanted to see if anyone else was dialing in for the longer shots and, apparently, some of you are. For me, though, wind will always be a factor in whether I shoot or not. I'm only willing to deal with just so many variables.



Thanks for all the good input, folks.



Russ

I have said before and will always say, the 23rd Psalm got me through the war. I'm a King James man myself. Lots of power in the 23rd.



On guides: My guide on this recent hunt does this all the time. He ALWAYS dials in elevation. He uses a Leupold, which seems to work for him. As mentioned, where repeatability is concerned, my faith is in Weavers.



On iron sights, long distance, and deflection: Quite true. I did, indeed, dial in deflection. I still do, on my M1 Garand, when I'm shooting across the course.



In general, I always advocate getting as close as possible. For my western hunting from now on, though, I'm going to adjust the scope.



On the lower duplex as an aiming point: I'm actually a big fan of this. I think it's useful to find out where you're hitting when using that part of the crosshair, because it just might come in handy. Teddy Roosevelt was big on doing what you can with what you've got. I am, too.



Russ

Adapting the plex reticle for a second zero is an excellent way to go IMO also. One of the ways i do this is to recalculate the magnification such that the lower post of the reticle is zeroed for a range that will allow for easy interpolation (at a 50 or 100 yd. factor if possible). Altho i haven't tried the system yet, any variable-powered plex reticle in the 2nd focal plane can be calculated for multiple downrange zeros as well, and then tested on paper. This is based on the same system that the Leupold range estimating system was developed for.



The plex reticle is an excellent windage indicator as well. It can be used very similar to a MOA system for windage reference. I use it as a sort of "Plex of Angle (POA)" system by multiplying the angle in inches that the reticle occupies (subtends) at each range (once a 100 yd. subtension is determined), and then dividing that figure by the 10 mph wind drift at that particular range. This gives a POA factor in tenths of the Plex subtension, which provides a quick reference to apply in the field (it helps a lot if the 100 yd. subtension is 3-4" for the flatter shooting cartridges, that is). This eliminates the need to run clicks for windage adjustment. Of course the appropriate course of action (for me, that is) is to limit the range of shots under windy conditions.



Here's what i do for hunting whatever spp. i'm after. I establish a CONSERVATIVE maximum point blank range (MPBR)for that particular spp. I then calculate the magnification i need to apply an optical ranging system for that MPBR(usually back-brisket). This way if the laser doesn't work, and i have time to use the optic as a ranging tool, i can. If i'm hunting 2 spp. such as deer and elk, i establish the MPBR for the deer and the MPBR ranging system for the elk (using the MPBR deer calculation) back-brisket. This way if either spp. comes into range, i can apply the system, with as little confusion as possible, and either spp. will be within range for a center hold.

Hot Core:

Boy you said it - beyond 200 yards if you can't practice at least twice a month all year, you have zero business shooting at those ranges. I would give some slack to a guy who has a lot of competitive experience, but anyone who can't practice at 550 has no business shooting that far, IMO.

Someone mentioned the "magnus" effect, or the tendency of a bullet to drift due to spin. I personally do not notice this to 700 yards, simply because 1 mph of wind at that range will blow the bullet 3 inches even with a RUM.

A lot of education, and experience has gone into the comments on this thread. The subject of adopting a "tactical" approach for shooting game is something that has practically taken over my life for the last several yrs.

A couple yrs. ago i was able to take a 906 yd. coyote with an XP 6.5-284 pistol by adopting these tactical techniques in the field. I mean, think of it this way-- of all the shooters out there, which ones MUST get the 1st shot on target at the maximum effective range (MER) possible-- obviously military and police snipers, since human lives depend upon it. Tactical Shooter magazine is chock full of tactical systems to use for engaging targets at the MER. 2 systems are in effect here-- clicking or use of a ballistic reticle (Mil-Dots for them). IMO the ballistic reticle is the way to go for game until you've reached the range at which the subtension of the reference stadia is approaching 2X the vital zone measurement of whatever game you're pursuing, or when the zero distance between stadia exceeds 100 yds. Once you've reached that point it becomes difficult to interpolate between stadia marks. Using this criteria for an elk size target my Burris 3-12X LER Ballistic Plex equipped 6.5-284 XP-100 with a 140 SST @ 2750 fps mv will get me to 600 yds. no problem. Although it would need to be ideal conditions for me to take a shot at that distance-- even then i doubt i would.

When the shooter begins researching the effectiveness of the ballistic reticles in the field he will realize it's the best system to use for referencing LR shooting (beyond the maximum point blank range) to a flatter shooting cartridge's MER.

FWIW i've come to believe that the Burris Ballistic Mil-Dot is the best of all (affordable) ballistic reticle worlds as it provides excellent windage reference along with an excellent amount of downrange reference stadia, and backup optical ranging capability.