Before I start, I am not here to cause an arguement, never was, but this is a point I want to address.

Not that I take hunting shows with any seriousness, but I do watch them, as I would rather watch hunting then just about anything else, well, GT and WRC racing is also good...

Recently, Ive seen said subjects throw their hands up as if they just made the winning homerun, sometimes not even before the animal they are hunting is down. Ive even seen one character who threw his bow just seconds after making a shot on elk. What I think is almost as funny is when these characters whom just after making a nice shot, right after they throw their hands up in sheer joy, in a panting whisper deduce the seriousness of their kill.

For I have never seen a hunting show where something like this did not occur, I must confess I own one hunting tape that is perfect. No nonsense, no fat men in head to toe camo scent lok suits, just pure hunting, and that is hunting the cape buffalo aval through Cabelas.

While I am not PC, I dont condone things that are otherwise unethical, a poor representation of a sportsman, and over all poor representation of a human being. I often think these guys have no feelings of guilt, remorse, or any other natural feeling associated with taking a life of another animal. I know I have felt those feelings on more than one occasion. I am not sorry for them, nor does it deflate my ego, for just as crying is something that happens.

I realize to sell their shows to producers and outdoor channels, these characters must present a show that has a climax, or seem interesting to the viewers. In all honestly I think if there were fair chase, ethical hunters who wernt wearing these suits I dont even know where to buy, not only would I watch more of these shows, I would even pay a small monthly fee to pay for them. Even 10 bucks a month, for good quality hunting shows would not be a problem for me. A show of this type would also be more favorable to the non hunters (read NON hunters, not anti hunters). Slobs fit into the same category for me as do most liberals, freedom taking liars, and I will finish this off by saying most of these characters are slobs.

Let me know what you think, please.

Regards,

Buell

PS- I just watched Ted Nugent's show, and although he uses bait type products for his hunting purposes, I think his show is much better than most anything else. The Christensen Arms show is also good save for the all too often refrence to the Christensen rifles, but I can live with that, and the hunts are usually pretty down to earth...

[ 10-20-2002, 12:38: Message edited by: Buell ]

Real life is becoming entertainment. Everyone wants to be a part of it. Pro football players dancing like fools after a touchdown. Soccer players running around pulling their shirts over their heads after a goal. Little League baseball players making a "call shot" and prancing around like they see grownups do on T.V.

Everyone trying to get the focus on themselves. Everyone wanting / needing their fifteen minutes of fame. The game, the sport, the hunt becomes meaningless. The kill becomes just a "score". The dead animal just an aftereffect. The camera stops rolling and the "hunter" wanders off for the bottle of scotch, and bragging-rights.

We're a pretty sad lot in general. However, as individuals, at times we do make ourselves proud. We need to be guided by an inner-light, not the spot light.

well said

It's the camera and the need to provide animation.

As of late on TV all shows have the person on camera talking with their hands. You would think you had Italian TV on today.

Buell,
I agree with you about the "WWF" mentality of some of those shows, this is sad. Again media taking away from us.

Sportman and hunting? Two different animals IMHO. Sportman = another PC term coined to make people feel better about the fact they are KILLERS by nature. Hunting - doing what we are ment to do.

Remorse? For what? This confuses the hell out of me. I generally feel relief, fullfillment and happiness, never remorse. My god, I have just taken part in the ritual that makes us who we are, predetors. Dont you feel alive after a successfull hunt?

Many of you will reconize this.
PHC wrote:

quote:

---

You may not like it, but its your heritage. We hunt for the same reason a English pointer puppy points before it can wobble: generations upon generationsof evolutionary selectivity urge that course of action. Does this mean that you - yes you are an insticntive killer, In my opinion hell yes, although you have covered it up so you can live with your own image of yourself, as that image was taught to you. We are killers to point that we reconize it, in as much as the death of the prey in a humane manner is the logical conclusion to a modern hunt. We hunters have modified our behavoir, too in that most of us who play human ethic are classified under the heading of "SPORTSMAN". It is the hunt its self that matters rather then the kill"

---

I cant help but think that this is connected to comments of a similer nature poted in big Game hunting forum regarding pictures I put online for the members here of a bear I took a few days ago(Oregon Black bear and 180 NOS). Again with a PC taste. I dont really care but I find it strange you can enjoy Teds hunting videos and praise them but complain about my pics? Interesting.....

Again I have to say that I agree with you about some of these shows, they are not right.

Kensco,
I agree with DAN, well said.

Regards,
JAG

Very well said by all....
Age and experience will usually change most of these folks, unfortunately most will not get that amount of hunting experience.

I see the same in fishermen as they keep a nice laketrout for wall hanging. Seldom can I change their views when I tell them that that female trout is probably older than their mother and will reproduce for 50+ years.

Boy,does this topic ever push my hot button.I am so disgusted at seeing high fives over a just killed game animal,or worse,even yet,climbing up onto a freshly killed elephant,or sitting on a freshly killed cape buffalo.One must have more respect for an animal than to degrade it that way.Otherwise you are not a HUNTER,just a killer.
Kensco,you said it better than I ever could.You,sir,are a HUNTER,and are welcome at my campfire any time.

Bravo five one

How utterly refreshing. An intelligent thread.

I know exactly what you mean about the "WHAT A BUCK! TEXAS WHITETAIL!" syndrome.

I may have mentioned it before but there is one show that seemed to break the mold a bit, at least the episode I saw ... I think it was called "Wildlife Quest" or "Outdoor Quest", and the episode I saw was about two public-land elk hunts in Colorado.

The first hunt was early-season archery; one of the two hosts never got a shot, the other had an excellent bull come within range, then the arrow fell off the rest and the herd headed for the next drainage.

The second hunt was during a late rifle season the same year. Only one of the hunters came back, and shot a decent bull in heavy timber which promptly ran off and fell down a fairly steep, where he obviously would have kept rolling to the bottom of the canyon if his antlers hadn't stopped him. Truly it looked as if the elk was growing out of the side of this cliff, and there was no high-fiving over that, probably because they were thinking about how the h*** they were going to get it out of there.

The elk show that RMEF does is pretty good, too.

John

When I was young, a pup just starting, the kill was the most important part of the hunt. Full limits counted and anything less was failure. When it came to deer hunting, a filled tag was the only measure of success. When I killed, I whooped more than once, but there was nobody there to see me and if there was, it was my brother and hunting partner. Things have changed for me over the years. I'm 56, retired and I hunt and fish a lot. I'm about to set out after big game that will last close to six weeks, including two weeks in Colorado getting ready and actually hunting. I was a bachelor until age 52. My bride tolerates my hunting quite well, but last week during the pheaent opener, she could not figure out why I went out and walked fields and didn't shoot any of the birds I flushed. An of you that read some of my prattling on this form know I can express myself, but I can't explain to her why I would spend all day walking and not shoot. It's the exact opposite to my attitude when I was 16 and in the field for the first time. I consistantly confuse Colorado Fish and Game people that call me doing surveys as to my satisfaction with my hunt in their state. I tyell them I had a successful hunt, but that I may not have tagged an animal that particular season. To me success was the season I tracked a herd of mule deer from early morning until late afternnon finally jumping them just before sunset. There wasn't a buck in the bunch, but watching them when I finally got them in view, and seeing how the old doe leading the heard doubled back to watch her back trail are thrills I'll never forget. There is a decent place for whooping, but that place is inside, or at least limited to those who understand us and why we do what we do afield with rifle or shotgun, not for public display like an overpaid football player.

B51,
The celebration of a freshly taken game has gone back to the begining. I know it is not the same these days, but what do you do over your recently killed game? Do you not smile? Are you not happy? Do you shed a tear? Feel bad for him?

It seems that a few people here are fogetting what we do. B51, we are hunters, and what is the end of a successfull hunt? A kill. Dont try to seperate yourself from the rest by saying that becuse you show more respect, or shed a tear for a dead animal, you are any different. You are a killer, period.

This topic to hits my hot button as well as I can not belive how many so called hunters, cry about the taking of game and how the animal is treated after death, and the celebrations that followed etc.. I have never climbed up on game and celebrated. I have givin high fives, I have gave a hardy "HELL YES!". Does that make me wrong? Some of my fondest memories of hunting w/ my father was the high five after a quick one shot kill, adn I am proud to have done it! I have put game in he back of my truck amongst the empty pop cans, does that make me wrong? Nope, just a guy who doesnt take his cans back very often.

The plains indians would celebrate for days after a good buff hunt. Does that bother you? African tribes celebrated the killing of lions often, are they wrong? Were they "hunters" or just killers?

I'd venture to say that they are more of a hunter then you or I will ever be.

Sorry for the tone, but this really bugs the shit out of me as I feel this kinda crap is the reason we are losing our rights. I agree seeing these celebrations on TV and in the mass media is not good for anyone, or the hunting public. But all of this touchy feely, worrying about peoples feelings BS is part of the problem in this country! GRRRR..

B51, I dont really care what you think about me and my choices, it makes no difference. Just remember there are alot of people here who have posed with freshly killed game, and you have pointed your comments at them as well.

Regards,
JAG

What gets me the most is not the post-shot celebrations we see on these various "hunting" programs, but the complete lack of hunting skills that we see from some of our hunting celebrities. I'm often reminded of my distaste for "outfitters" when I see fat slobs dressed in head-to-toe camo climb into an elevated enclosure with flip up windows and casually inform the viewers that they're "going to take em" when a monster pen-raised buck comes in at five yards to eat from a pile of apples. It's no lie that many of our hunting personalities came to their present stations in life not because of their hunting prowess, but because of the fact that they happened to own a few thousand acres, wrote well, or were good pitch men. Look at Bryce "the wounder" Townsley for instance.

I dislike the way our sport is sometimes portrayed, and I dislike the fact that people who are in positions to help our sport to gain wider acceptance are ultimately working to insure that the average hunter, years down the line, will be priced out of the hunting market. What a damn shame.

Sorry, I'm done with my rant now.

Hey Nick, Are you saying that the people here dont understand the things we do? Are you saying this is not the place? Then where is the place? What better place then a forum full of shooters and hunters? All of the other photos and videos and people have a problem with mine? Give it a rest. I will post pics of the gut pile next time so there is aREAL reason to be upset.

Regards,
JAG

NIck,
You know, disregard my last post. This thing has gone far enough. Sorry for the stab.

Regards,
JAG

JAG:

Sportsman- 1. A person who engages in sports, esp. fishing and hunting 2. A person who exhibits qualities of fairness, courtesy, and grace in winning and defeat.

Sportsman and sportsmanship is not just something that was made up to hide anything. Only the oppisite could be true. Do you think Anti's want hunters seen as "people who exhibit qualities of fairness,..."?

How can you just utterly deny your existence as a human being? There are things that seperate us from all other animals, emotions, feelings, ect are some of them. Any rational person will not just deny themselves those born feelings. This isn't the savage world it was 10,000 years ago. Survival is no longer a daily act as it once was.

Are you really a hunter because its something humans do, you obviously get off on killing animals. I know the first time I shot a deer, I really didnt even know what to think. We must be thankful to nature for providing us with what we have, not to take advantage of what she offers.

About Nugents show, he shows much more sportsmanship than any of the other shows I have seen, and yeah, his show does have the commericialism in it, someone has to pay for the show, but I dont recall fat slobs in head to toe camo going after "monster bucks." Hearts pound when hunting, I know, I should, but I dont get off on killing animals. I do it because its neccesary, not because its cool or I like killing animals, there is so much more you are missing..

Buell, sent you an email.

JAG

Jag,

I think that you may have unknowingly hit on something in one of your last posts. You mentioned hunters and shooters. Truth be known, I believe there are a lot more shooters here then there are hunters. Hunters are, fast becoming, a very limited commodity. I'm not talking about your weekend warriors, I'm talking people who live it, make the sacrifices, do without.

There can't be many here. You watch too much TV.

Joe

Joe,
You may just be right. Sad it is, very sad.

Regards,
JAG

Gentlemen,

After being in on the filming of some of these hunting shows and some other videos, it really does pain me greatly to watch them. I know of at least one African "hunting" video, filmed in RSA, where everything was shot from the truck, then the stalks were performed and acted out.

As far as the football player dancing around thing goes....I admit that I got pretty jacked up the first time I scored a touchdown in front of 50,000+ fans, but after that I remembered what my high school coach told me "Act like you've been there before". After that, I would just hand the ball to the ref and jog over to the sidelines. Hell, it was usually the linemen that did the work, not me. Now I get sick watching these players dance and jive like they were on Soul Train...

Joel Slate
Slate & Associates, LLC
www.slatesafaris.com

7mm Rem Mag Page www.slatesafaris.com/7mm.htm

Jag,
You are a good fellow, I'm sure, and likely a fine hunter. Were I to pass by your truck in the woods or in your driveway with this bear, I would congratulate you and probably check out the details, right beside you. Self-admittedly, you could "care less about photographs" and the results reflect this. But, so what, if they're for yourself and fellow hunters? No big deal, there. The problem arises when you elect to post these images, which surely do convey a host of "wrong messages" about hunters, on the Internet, as doing so provides fodder for those who would take our hunting away. JAG, I wish this was "the place", as you put it, but to think we enjoy safe harbour anywhere on the Internet is unwise. I, too, have posted some things I later regretted. We all do, at one time or other. I hope you'll follow through with what you said on your
Oregon Black Bear thread and give the matter your consideration.

[ 10-21-2002, 16:08: Message edited by: Nickudu ]

Nick,
My intent was not to start shit, it just kinda happend. Sorry for the bashes directed at you. I would much rather move on to somthing more positive. Talk to you later.

Jag,

When I posted the previous comments, I hadn't seen the pictures of the bear you took. While I congratulate you on your success, the pictures need some work. If that's what you want for your album, knock yourself out. Out here, among people of different ilk??????????????

Respect is the key...............for others, for the game, but especially for yourself.

Joe