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I just got back from MT. I hunted with Rock Creek Outfitters. I took a green scored 69 inch Bison with 2 shots from my 480 Ruger. The bull was taken on the Assiniboine Indian Reservation. According to the gal at SCI if it holds it will be the new # 9 SCI. I'll get pic's up soon..................JJ " venator ferae bestiae et aquae vitae " | ||
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Congratulations -- I'll look forward to your pictures. ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
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Also, tell us about bullet performance.  analog_peninsula ----------------------- It takes character to withstand the rigors of indolence. | |||
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Congrats! Get some pictures up!! "Let me start off with two words: Made in America" | |||
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JJ, I take it you had a good hunt?  ~Ann   | |||
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Annie, It looks like your secret is out. I hope I don't lose my spot there. Windage and elevation, Mrs. Langdon, windage and elevation... | |||
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What did it go B&C score? Thx Mark D | |||
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    This is the bull I took with Rock Creek. The guide is a SCI scorer and he green scored it at 69 inches. A call to SCI records and I was informed that 69 inches even would put my bull at # 9. I was in eastern MT on the reservation and this is a free range herd. We started out in the mornings at -25F. Damn cold. We would ease along glassing up the draws because the buff were down out of the wind. When we would spot a likely looking bull we would go around on top and crawl to the lip of the draw and peek over and check the bulls out. I found this guy in the third bunch we stalked. We crawled out to the lip of the draw and I was about 35 yrds away from the bull. We had to wait for them to mill about and my bull clear the rest of the herd. It seemed like for ever in the cold, but it was only about 1/2 hour. The bull turned broadside to me still at 35 yrds. The guide wasn't too sure about a handgun as the pervious week a client put 7 300 Win Mag bullets thru a bulls lungs and it took a long time for him to die. I assured the guide if I did my part The 480 would work. The first shot hit the bull low on the shoulder breaking it. The bull turned away from my first shot giving me that magic window just behind the shoulder angleing forward to the offside shoulder. I put that one in low also. The bull went 10 steps and fell over. The guide could not believe it. My load is a 370 gn cast WFN at 1150 fps. Both bullets stopped in the offside shoulder. His hanging weight was 2450 lbs. When we opened him up the heart had 2 neat 475 diameter holes through it. As you can see the bullets suffered no real damage, even after breaking bone. I kinda like the 480 Ruger round, it works for me. " venator ferae bestiae et aquae vitae " | |||
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 These are the bullets cast by Montana Bullet works that were recovered from the buffs offside shoulder. Also many thanks to Ann at Aspen Hills for setting this hunt up for me..............JJ " venator ferae bestiae et aquae vitae " | |||
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JJ, Great job and wonderful animal. Love the recovered bullet pictures. Thanks for sharing.  Member NRA, SCI- Life #358 28+ years now! DRSS, double owner-shooter since 1983, O/U .30-06 Browning Continental set. | |||
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That's excellent JJ! I too am a fan of the .480 Ruger -- they seem to work just fine without hyper velocity. That's a great trophy.  "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Oh JJ, you should post this on the handgun hunting forum as well -- I'm sure the guys there would love to see this! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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JJ, Nice bull. Don't try that handgun stunt on cape buffalo though, as they are 10' tall and bullet proof (bison are wimps and can be killed with BB guns as everyone here at AR knows)  Seriously though, I wonder how many shots it would have taken if you had lung shot him instead of heart shot him. Nothing that walks the Earth lives too long with two 0.475" holes in it's heart. I suspect if the 300 Win mag hunter had scored heart hits it wouldn't have taken seven shots, what do you think? | |||
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Scott, you are exactly right. The guide told the hunter to go for a heart shot but he didn't listen, hence the messy hunt. I'll never understand why a hunter pays good bucks to go on a hunt of a lifetime and refuses to listen to his guide. Thats what I pay my PH's and guides for, to tell me things I don't know. Its amazing how smooth things run when you listen to your guide.................JJ " venator ferae bestiae et aquae vitae " | |||
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Great pictures and excellent shot placement. ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
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Now how cool is THAT!! Super trophy, excellent pictures, and the experience of a lifetime. I am absolutely green... | |||
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Nice shooting - interesting to see the rifling marks on those bullets. It looks as though the front end of the bullets partially stripped in the rifling - The groove in the bullets look wider at the nose of the bullet than at the base. Might be an illusion but both bullets look similar. No doubt heart shots work, but buffalo hunters always wanted lung, not heart shots. Interesting indeed. Brent When there is lead in the air, there is hope in my heart -- MWH ~1996 | |||
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In that second picture, is that a herd of bison just beyond your right shoulder? Geez, skittish, ain't they? They ran damn near 200 yards after you popped your guy...JK. It was a fenced pasture type deal, I assume? Nice looking animal. Bet he'll eat great. ______________________ Hunting: I'd kill to participate. | |||
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Kamo Gari, I would suspect it took a while for those bison to move off so he could admire and get those pictures of his bull. Brent, In my experience double lung shots work well if you are shooting a 50 caliber that is spitting bullets at better than Mach 2. Try those with 300 and 338 Mags (45/70 fits in here to) and you are in for a shootfest. | |||
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Kamo Gari, It is on an indian reservation. No fences. How the hell do you " fence " 2000 lb bulls when they are in rut. Typically when a buff goes down in a herd the other bulls attack him, and the cows gather around him. We had to wait until the buff decided to move off on their own. Thay have no fear of people, they are not afraid of anything. They tolerate you is all. We were charged by a small 800 lb cow on the second stalk. The guide had to shout, fire his rifle into the ground to get her to stop. They have about 115,000 acres to run on. I suggest you book with Rock Creek, hunt them once, and tell me about the pasture hunt. As the old saying goes you know what assume does.................JJ " venator ferae bestiae et aquae vitae " | |||
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OK, JJ, no need to get heated. If you haven't noticed, there are one or two fenced 'hunts' for bison out there. Congrats on your hunt. ______________________ Hunting: I'd kill to participate. | |||
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Scott, I haven't shot a bison, but were I to do so, I'd stick with barely sonic .45s. They worked 60 million times. I reckon they would still work. Albeit, I'd opt for a bit heavier bullet. Leighton, bison sometimes just ain't overly impressed with two-leggers. It did lead to their rather unseemly demise a century and a quarter back. I've had deer do this however standing around staring while I gutted mom or bro. JJ. What do you think is up with the rifling on those bullets? Am I seeing things? They look mighty hard too. Always been a softer is better sorta guy, but I'm not pistolero either. Dang nice bullet to be sure. Brent When there is lead in the air, there is hope in my heart -- MWH ~1996 | |||
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I'd heard that, but guess I figured they'd go to a bit longer distance than a couple hundred yards when one of their own was dropped. Hey, learn something new every day. I am a bit disappointed, however. I've always wanted to hunt bison, and if a typical 'hunt' is such that you simply find the herd, then walk up and shoot one, it loses much of its appeal. Not all, however. Bison meat is unbelievably tasty, and they have other worldy possessions that I covet a great deal... Cheers ______________________ Hunting: I'd kill to participate. | |||
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Brent, I figured you would use a BPC type of rifle, but I would HIGHLY reccomend a heart shot. Back in the day they didn't care how long it took them to fall over dead. I have seen the results of 550gr lead slugs at 1150 fps on buffalo through the lungs, ain't at all impressive. If you cast it hard you could opt for a head shot those work REAL good. JJ, Bison charging, cannot be true! Everyone knows bison are friendly and tame wimps that are never ever aggressive. Maybe that is why the boys from Wyoming aren't complaining about the wolves eating all the bison calves. Kamo, Find the herd and shoot one. That sounds about right. The same is done with elk, cape buffalo, water buffalo, caribou, etc, etc. | |||
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Scott, The books actually written by buffalo hunters (like Cook or White) as opposed to those books written about buffalo hunters by modern folk, state that heart shots were actually avoided if possible because the animals would buck and run as often as not. I have found this to be true with deer and eland that I have shot, while lung shot animals will just stand there until they fall over. And that is what a buffalo hunter wants. If they stand quietly and then fall over, the rest of the herd will not run. LH, I don't think buffalo hunting is a whole lot different than antelope or prairie dogs. But I haven't tried to shoot one with a pistol either. I sure would like to - simply for the meat. I have heard that some of the buffalo hunting in the far north such as the Delta herd in Alaska or some of the northern BC or Alberta herds can be VERY challenging, but perhaps more just getting out there - way out there - in really tough conditions. Was it Canuck that has posted about really challenging Canadian bison hunting here? Not sure. Anyway, I don't want to take away from JJ's hunt at all. It's a heck of a trophy and JJ did what needed to be done in handy - very handy fashion. For his work, he has a dandy skull, and I rather like bison skulls, not to mention a robe that would warm an iceberg. Pretty sweet. On another forum, I just posted about a student of mine that needs to find some bison to butcher with rocks. He is studying the ecology of paleoindian bison killers and he needs some data on bison butchery and the efficiencies required to chop up a bunch of critters and haul them off to camp. Anyone planning a bison hunt that would not mind having a student show you how rocks work, drop me a line. Brent When there is lead in the air, there is hope in my heart -- MWH ~1996 | |||
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Damn, I guess I'll cross all those off my list too, then... Somehow, however, I'm not so sure that the above mentioned species will allow me to stroll on up the way you describe. We'll see. ______________________ Hunting: I'd kill to participate. | |||
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I think you're right about the CAN hunt. I seem to recall (I may be wrong here) however, that the woodland bison were not importable to the U.S. Apologies to JJ for any remark I made that came across as criticism; wasn't meant to be derogatory. ______________________ Hunting: I'd kill to participate. | |||
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As far as criticisms go, I realize some hunts are feedlot shoots. Two of my CAPE buff were shot within 40 yrds. We walked up to the herd and shot them. The only difference in cape buff and bison is cape buff run ( due to hunting pressure ) if they see or smell you. The bison see you but just don't run as far. The bison aren't afraid of people as much, they just tolerate you. I'll admit to the difference if you wound a cape buff, the shits on 100 times worse than with bison. But getting in among 1500 to 2000 lb wild bison with a handgun will still get your blood pumping. AS for the bullet. What you are seeing is when the bullet slams into the rifling it is going straight, not spinning. So when the rifiling first engages the lead bullet the law of physics says an object in motion tends to stay in motion, the first little bit of the lands has to start the entire bullet rotating and there is some initial skidding until the bullets motion is changed by the rifling. So the marks made by the lands will be a little bigger until the bullet cooperates and begins to spin. This is more easily seen with lead bullets because the bearing surface of the bullet is softer. The same thing occurs on a copper jacket but to a much lesser degree. What gives the bullet its accuracy is the engagement of the lands on the last part of the bullet to leave the barrel, which you see in the pics is just fine. So in short this is how a heavy bullet lead bullet will look every time due to the laws of physics and soft bullet ( or bearing ) surface...................JJ " venator ferae bestiae et aquae vitae " | |||
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Brent, Dropped you a line (see PM). Kamo, I have petted wild elk before during gun season in Colorado, go figure. Hunting is simply nothing more than "finding the herd". After that the hunting stops and the shooting begins. | |||
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JJ , very nice buff. Must feel a extra bit of satisfaction taking it up close with a open sighted hangun, Instead of 200yds with a mag. rifle. Was your 480 a custom? My hat off to you, and I agree Ann is a great person to work with. | |||
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JJ-congrats on the trophy bison! retirement is agreeing with you. i hope you have many more hunts such as this. james | |||
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I have to chip in again. Congratulaions on your trophy. I hunted there last year and I told them to sign me up for this year. I hunted mule deer when I was there, there were two bison taken while I was there, one with a 300 win and one with a 308 NORMA. These folks know how to hunt, Dean knows the area and the game and you are welcomed into their house and treated like family. Patti is an awesome cook, good down home meat and potatoes food. All the guides are excellent. This is a top notch outfit with top notch hunts. I will go back many more times. You can get their info from Ann Horseman @ Aspenhill. Windage and elevation, Mrs. Langdon, windage and elevation... | |||
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David, the 480 started life as a Old Model three screw Blackhawk in 44 mag. It went to Bowen Classic Arms in TN and he put on the oct.bbl. line bored the cylinder, action job, Bisley hammer,Turnbull Case Color and the list goes on, Bowens own sights.....about 3 months and $3000.00 later this is what I got. Its my main hunting weapon now. Its been to South Africa once and is going back in June. Its taken lots of game in the last year ..................JJ " venator ferae bestiae et aquae vitae " | |||
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JJ Nice bull! I took one with a longbow. It wasnt on as many acres but they would thick wooded acres. They are a tough animal and most people dont know just how big they are. Mine was ove 2000lbs. Hell laying on his belly his hump was over my waist. After hitting hime with an arrow he took off through the brush breaking trees like twigs. Was the best meat we have had Took the family a year to eat it all! Nice looking handgun as well love them cowboy guns! Dean | |||
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That is a great pistol. I was wondering how you ended up with a single action Bisley in 480! I wish Ruger made one just like yours at the factory, even if it had a round bbl and other factory items. Excellent choice in bbl length, also. I think they are missing something by only offering the 480 in DA setups. ============================== "I'd love to be the one to disappoint you when I don't fall down" --Fred Durst | |||
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JJ_Miller: Congratulations on the sensational Trophy! WOW! That is a monster Bull! I have been along on many Buffalo Hunts here in Montana but none as "sporting" as yours! I hope you have MANY happy recollections of your Hunt and the stalk to take your Trophy! I have never shot a Buffalo due to the fact I have my freezers full of Antelope, Deer and Elk already! Someday though! Anyway for conversational and informational purposes I want to relay my observations of the one shot kills I have seen on Buffalo! The Buffalo I have seen harvested are mainly 3 1/2 year old females and yield about 550 to 600 pounds of processed meat! This "shot" is placed 3 (three) inches below the ear and 3 (three) inches behind the ear! I have seen several Buffalo felled instantly in their tracks with this easily aimed for "spot"! I even filmed my friend Ross killing a mature Buffalo with this exact shot while using his Ruger Bisley pistol in 45 Long Colt caliber! This Buffalo fell so instantly it actually appeared to bounce up slightly off of the ground! Anyway this shot does NOT harm the precious and beautiful skull and INSTANTLY renders the Buffalo dead! Again - what a wonderful Trophy for you and thanks for the great pictures and the story! Hold into the wind VarmintGuy | |||
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What kind of pistol is that? It looks really nice. Great job!!! I heal fast and don't scar. | |||
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Awesome pic's, Congratulations on the Bison If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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JJ_Miller: Also this - I was not familiar with the "Assiniboine" Indian Reservation here in Montana and went to my Montana map (I pride myself in having travelled every main and county road IN Montana over the last 38 years!). No could find the Assinboine Indian Reservation! Then I did a Mapquest type search. No could find! Then I did a Google type search and this is the first paragraph from the "Fort Belknap" Indian Reservations website: Fort Belknap Indian Reservation is homeland to the Gros Ventre and the Assiniboine Tribes. Fort Belknap Indian Reservation is located forty miles south of the Canadian border and twenty miles north of the Missouri River, which is the route of the Lewis and Clark Expedition. Fort Belknap Indian Reservation is the forth largest Indian reservation in Montana. I post this in case anyone else is interested in where the area is you had your Hunt. Congratulations are in order again on that Trophy Bull - good for you! Hold into the wind VarmintGuy | |||
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The reservation is the Ft. Peck and it is two million acres. The tribes allow bison and antelope hunting and that is where I took my pronghorn in 2005. Congratulations JJ, that's a very nice bison! ~Ann | |||
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