For personal protection from all critters, which pistol? I own each with good ammo so cost is of no consequence.
We are taking bear spray too but I rarely go anywhere anymore unarmed.

Perry

umm.
bring your snow shoes, and a good coat.
it's trying to melt,,, but [shrug] maybe by the end of may?
maybe not, it's been a brutal winter this year.

I’m pretty sure You’re not allowed to possess a firearm in the park. Outside the park, absolutely but inside the park is Bear spray only.

DLS is absolutely correct. Firearms are forbidden in the park. Federal park so federal offense. You can transport firearms through the park but don't get caught carrying one away from your vehicle.
Bruce

Yall are incorrect. As per YS's website you can possess and carry a firearm but you cannot discharge it.

Perry

quote:

Originally posted by perry:
Yall are incorrect. As per YS's website you can possess and carry a firearm but you cannot discharge it.

Perry

This is correct, here's the rules;
https://www.yellowstonepark.co...guns-in-yellowstone/


You should carry which ever you can shoot accurately and easiest to carry.

Thanks!

Obviously this is a last resort/just in chase piece of kit.

Perry

357,10mm or the 44.

All decent choices when loaded with good bullets.

Don't know where everybody has been the law changed in 2009.

Procession of firearms in NP's are governed by the state law the park is located in.

P-dog is right.

We can carry in Denali National Park now.

All those cal. will work fine.

quote:

Originally posted by Lamar:
umm.
bring your snow shoes, and a good coat.
it's trying to melt,,, but [shrug] maybe by the end of may?
maybe not, it's been a brutal winter this year.

Good to know, I'm thinking of heading that way about that time. Brutal here too, still lots of snow and cold.

Grizz

OK, let’s split hairs. You can carry but not shoot, even in self defense. Someone please explain why you’d carry a defensive gun if you’re not allowed to use it.

I’ve traveled through the park with guns many times over the years; but they were unloaded and cased. Carrying one on your person, loaded, is a big step beyond that.

It seems to me that anyone carrying a loaded gun on their person, inside the park, is simply asking for trouble. Common sense would dictate a different approach.

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:
OK, let’s split hairs. You can carry but not shoot, even in self defense. Someone please explain why you’d carry a defensive gun if you’re not allowed to use it.

I’ve traveled through the park with guns many times over the years; but they were unloaded and cased. Carrying one on your person, loaded, is a big step beyond that.

It seems to me that anyone carrying a loaded gun on their person, inside the park, is simply asking for trouble. Common sense would dictate a different approach.

Seriously?
You'd get eaten by a bear, stomped by a moose, kidnapped by a marauding band of biker zombies before shooting them...because it was illegal????
Um, ok.

Perry

There has been two bear shooting since this law went into effect.

One in Glacier in in Denali. The one in Glacier had the charges dismissed.

The one in Denali I don't think charges were filed.

https://www.nationalparkstrave...ark-and-preserve5943

https://www.spokesman.com/blog...oter-case-dismissed/

Here is a warning shot in grand Teton NP

No.24 Can not determine if any charges were filed

https://www.ammoland.com/2020/...-cases-97-effective/

quote:

Originally posted by perry:

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:
OK, let’s split hairs. You can carry but not shoot, even in self defense. Someone please explain why you’d carry a defensive gun if you’re not allowed to use it.

I’ve traveled through the park with guns many times over the years; but they were unloaded and cased. Carrying one on your person, loaded, is a big step beyond that.

It seems to me that anyone carrying a loaded gun on their person, inside the park, is simply asking for trouble. Common sense would dictate a different approach.

Seriously?
You'd get eaten by a bear, stomped by a moose, kidnapped by a marauding band of biker zombies before shooting them...because it was illegal????
Um, ok.

Perry

Some people are very risk aversive.

I have know several people to open carry handguns in NP's without negative results.

I rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Carry the 44 mag. cancealed.
also carry bear spray.

It depends where you are in the park and what you are doing. When backcountry fishing we always carry.

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:
OK, let’s split hairs. You can carry but not shoot, even in self defense. Someone please explain why you’d carry a defensive gun if you’re not allowed to use it.

I’ve traveled through the park with guns many times over the years; but they were unloaded and cased. Carrying one on your person, loaded, is a big step beyond that.

It seems to me that anyone carrying a loaded gun on their person, inside the park, is simply asking for trouble. Common sense would dictate a different approach.

Even before it was legal lots of Montanans would carry in Glacier. The thinking was better to be judged by 12 than have your face ripped off by a bear ...

quote:

Originally posted by crane:
It depends where you are in the park and what you are doing. When backcountry fishing we always carry.

Buildings are off limits

quote:

Originally posted by Grizzly Adams1:

quote:

Originally posted by Lamar:
umm.
bring your snow shoes, and a good coat.
it's trying to melt,,, but [shrug] maybe by the end of may?
maybe not, it's been a brutal winter this year.

Good to know, I'm thinking of heading that way about that time. Brutal here too, still lots of snow and cold.

Grizz

I go to Idaho 5 days a week. Just today I had to detour off the freeway and take an alternate route. Road closed due to snow!

quote:

Originally posted by DIs:
I rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Carry the 44 mag. cancealed.
also carry bear spray.

here, here! Good advice.

OK, so my opinion is obviously in the minority. Fair enough.

I’ve only carried bear Spray in the parks, though I’ve kept a concealed gun in my vehicle since it goes everywhere with me (yes I have a CCW) and typically my carry gun is a Glock 17 or 19. When we’ve hiked I’ve left the gun locked in the truck. My safety concern about 2 legged predators is greater than 4 legged.

When I’m not in a park and am hunting, fishing or hiking, IF I carry a defensive handgun, it’s usually a Glock 17 or 20. But I’ve often had no firearm with me unless hunting and then it’s almost always a 338.

I’ve been around plenty of bears, mostly in Alaska, and when fishing have seldom carried a gun. There were a couple times I wished I had one, but I’ve been fortunate I guess as I’ve never had a problem. The only time I ever truly feared for my safety was in Alberta on an elk hunt. I was hunting on a flat along a river, alone as my lazy assed guide was sitting in camp while I hunted, and I stumbled onto a grizzly killed elk that looked just like kill sites I’ve been around in Alaska. A big buried mound with a leg and antlers sticking out. The cover was thick right there and my head was on a swivel as I snuck back out on the same trail I’d been walking along. Fortunately, I never encountered the bear. The 30-06 I was hunting with didn’t seem nearly big enough , let alone what any handgun would have been. At that moment I didn’t wish I’d had a handgun but rather my 416!

I’m pretty sure You’re not allowed to possess a firearm in the park. Outside the park, absolutely but inside the park is Bear spray only.

quote:

OK, so my opinion is obviously in the minority. Fair enough.

I’ve only carried bear Spray in the parks, though I’ve kept a concealed gun in my vehicle since it goes everywhere with me (yes I have a CCW) and typically my carry gun is a Glock 17 or 19. When we’ve hiked I’ve left the gun locked in the truck. My safety concern about 2 legged predators is greater than 4 legged.

Could it be because you have been missed inform what the law actually has been for going on 15 years.

A lot of people talk about 2 legged predators.

Less talk about the justification for shooting a fellow human.

They have a pose a threat to you that they are going to inflict great Bodley harm or death.

By having the means, opportunity and place you in danger.

Means could be a weapon or it could be they have the disparity of force to harm you.

Opportunity they have to be able to harm you.

Place you in danger. A simple one the person has a gun, he is standing next you. But he doesn't do any thing to place you in danger.

So you can not defend yourself.

The next time they all apply but he threatens by saying he is going to kill you.

Then aims his gun at you. A clear case for defending yourself.

Let's talk bears there is always a disparity of force they are faster and stronger then any human.

They are always armed.

Now opportunity If you and the bear are relatively close the bear has the means and opportunity to harm you.

Because bears has to make contact with you, to harm you. Distance is all important.

How close does one let a bear that is threating you get before you defend ones self.

A lot depends on ones skill level, defensive arm, time you have to react etc.

With humans the default standard for edge and impact weapons has become 21 feet. If they are that or closer, have the opportunity and place you endanger. One would be justified in shooting a human.

With bears the distance is far greater as they are far faster then a human.
20 to 30 yards would seem reasonable.

With both one does not have to let them make contact with you to justify defending oneself.

One does not have to try non-lethal means First. IE spray etc.

In law enforcement training using Non-lethal against a armed suspect. Is only recommended when back up by a lethal weapon.

Why would anybody would think that we have to give a bear more consideration then a human.

Bogles the mind.

Let's go a bit further.

You are heading to a area that you have every legal right to be there.

That is known to have single or groups of people that are bigger, stronger and faster then you. They are armed with clubs and cutting weapons.

They are known to attack for unknow reasons or reasons known only to them.

When you talk to them they don't understand and don't care what you say.

The government officials tell you do don't worry it doesn't happen very often. But take some spray with you it works. occasionally.

It is far more important to save one of their lives then to save your own.

You have the choice take a firearm it you want to.

How long and what distance would you let armed human attackers threaten you before you took action.

The question has been answered thousands of times in self-defense shooting that have been ruled justified.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Let's go a bit further.

You are heading to a area that you have every legal right to be there.

That is known to have single or groups of people that are bigger, stronger and faster then you. They are armed with clubs and cutting weapons.

They are known to attack for unknow reasons or reasons known only to them.

When you talk to them they don't understand and don't care what you say.

The government officials tell you do don't worry it doesn't happen very often. But take some spray with you it works. occasionally.

It is far more important to save one of their lives then to save your own.

You have the choice take a firearm it you want to.

How long and what distance would you let armed human attackers threaten you before you took action.

The question has been answered thousands of times in self-defense shooting that have been ruled justified.

Well, I generally avoid knowingly going places such as you describe in the above scenario. I did have a difficult situation arise with a 2-legged POS a couple years ago, but it couldn’t be foreseen until it happened. I was threatened by a tweaker who pulled out a large Bowie knife. Fortunately, there was a convenience store display case between us so even though he was only 6-8 feet from me, he couldn’t reach me. And this was one time where I truly wished I’d had a sidearm but didn’t have it with me at that moment. I did manage to diffuse the confrontation verbally, but it could have quickly gone very badly.

As for bears, perhaps I’ve been around a few more than you and so far have not had the need to use either a gun or spray. The closest grizzly was while fishing on the west side of Cook Inlet and we were a bit under 20 yards. We’d been watching the bear as he got closer and he was well aware of us from a distance. When he got to about 20 yards, we began slowly moving away and we’re fortunate that he did the same. Closest Black Bear was one we did bump into unexpectedly, up Slough Creek in Yellowstone. Came around a blind corner in a trail and encountered a Black Bear at about 15 yards. He didn’t seem too concerned, keep feeding on vegetation and we backed off, then passed farther away. There have been other bears but those were the closest of each species.

So, P-dog; perhaps I’ve just been lucky, but the one time I truly felt the need to draw a gun and possibly have to use it, was with the 2-legged predator. And like a dumb ass, it was locked in my truck when it should have been on me instead. Whether I have a gun, spray or nothing on me, I always try to be aware of my surroundings and anticipate problems before they happen. My view is a defensive gun is a last resort option. I respect that your view is somewhat different.

Geez, I haven't been there for a few years. Had no idea YNP has degraded to the level of Chicago. You're scaring me man!!

I live in prime black bear country. I spent a lot of time in Montana and Wyoming Grizzly country. Some in Alaska and Canadian grizzly country.

As far as having more experience that could be up for debate.

As far as dealing with humans that want to harm you. I would say I vast more experience.

33 years as a LEO I have dealt with all kinds. Dozens of man with a gun calls,( normally a drunk native shooting up his house or neighbors house). Hundreds if not into the thousands of domestics violence complaints. There is always some type a weapon available.

I have been personally assaulted many times. Fortunately my injuries were minor some of my attackers required hospitalization.

Yes I have been threaten with all kinds of weapons.

The odd armed robbery and murder. Some were very intent in harming me.

The only times I have shot bears in self-defense, were wounded by another hunter.

The other bears that I have shot. I was hunting them or they were hit by a vehicle and had to be put down.

I have back a few bears down and they went away before I had to shoot them. They were far easier then getting a drunk/drugged armed human to stop their behavior.

As far as carrying a side arm. 2080 hours a year x 33 years = 68640 hours of carrying a side arm just working. Then add another 8 hours a day if not more off duty time = another 96,360 hours during that 33 year time span. Plus another 45000 since I have been retired. Equals a good guess of 175,440 thousand hours of carrying a side arm in my life. Not counting the few years I carried one trapping hunting etc. before I became a LEO.

Just might be a bit more experience in that area.

One can always find a reason for not doing something. It is far easier a lot of times to not do something then to do something.

When playing the odds game carrying a firearm and having to use it for self-defense.
Against any thing or anybody is very very low.

But then I wear seat-belts, PFD when in watercraft, a helmet when biking and Motorcycling, use a safety harness when in a tree stand, Have fire extinguishers in my various buildings.

Over all the odds say you well not need any one in a normal life span.

So why bother with anyone of them.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kda55:
Geez, I haven't been there for a few years. Had no idea YNP has degraded to the level of Chicago. You're scaring me man!![/QUOTE

As far as being scared that sounds like a personnel problem.

I prefer to be aware and cautious around things that can hurt me.

Being scared usually results non-rational behavior.

quote:

As far as being scared that sounds like a personnel problem

Hmmm personnel, you mean the bears, wolves, bison?

PERSONAL! Did you learn to spell after you became a cop?

quote:

personnel problem.....

Well, if you're going to send all of them then yes, I might get scared.

Can't let this go un-noticed.

Park visitors are able to openly carry legal handguns, rifles, shotguns and other firearms per a federal law approved by Congress and signed by President Barack Obama in February 2010 . Concealed weapons are allowed by state statute

President Obama signed off on it. One attaboy for the president.

I will be the first to admit I not a great speller.

But it is obvious that the message was received as intended.

I was in the park last May and carried a Taurus Tracker in 44 Mag. I saw around 20 bears in 10 days with 6 of those being grizzlies. Half of the sightings were a momma bear with cubs.

Just keep a safe respectable distance and keep your head on a swivel while hiking.

Gentlemen, this is the reason I have been on AR for 15+ yrs, great discussion.
Thank you all for the info and sharing your personnell experiences.
Unfortunately we are in a position this year that the weather may postpone our trip. It appears the snow is continuing to fall and predictions are it will still be pretty thick by the end of May. As south texans we were really looking forward to this trip.

Perry

quote:

It appears the snow is continuing to fall and predictions are it will still be pretty thick by the end of May. As south texans we were really looking forward to this trip.

That would be a good idea IMHO I found if one is going to be at elevation.

The earliest I like to get into the back country is the first week of July.

We lived in Cody, WY for 11 years which is only 50 miles out the East Gate of Yellowstone. I remember snow at Old Faithful on Memorial Day and tourists running around in flip flops.

Mark

I remember living in Whitefish Montana. The summer of 79 we got 30 inches of snow on the Fourth of July lol

When in May are you going? I live only 150 miles from the park and go there often. There is still a lot of snow there. Not even all the roads are open so at least for the next few weeks you are not going very far off road unless you are skiing or snowshoeing. I am headed to the park this weekend and will check the conditions and let you know.

Lived near there for a bit.
Lots of snow until June 15 or later.
I went over Memorial Day a few years back, only one road open and no one in the park. I was one of 4 at Old Faithful.
Too much snow to see anything.
On the animals, you can't take a gun.
You won't likely see bears anyway.
Have fun.

quote:

you can't take a gun.

Would you clarify that statement.