I am currently loading barnes 140 gr XLC bullets in my 7-08. I am
trimming all of my brass to a uniform length, chamfering the
case necks inside and out, and even cleaning up the chamfer with
steel wool. I notice that nomatter how much care I take with my brass,
I am always shaving some of the blue coating off with the case neck.
Can anyone provide me with advise on how to avoid shaving the dry
blue lubricant?
Barnes recommends a seating deapth of between 0.030-0.070".
What seating deapth have you found works the best.
What have been your experiances with these bullets on game?
Do they expand as well as advertised? Do they shed their petals easily?

Thomas,
Some folks love them and some hate them... goes with any bullet.
I have a load worked up with 100 grain XLC's in my 25-06 that I had trouble with accuracy until I moved them out to right off the lands. This was actually closer than Barnes recommended, but there are no signs of excessive pressure. It has been my experience that the faster I push a Barnes bullet, the better they shoot.

Robert

The shaving off some of the coating is unavoidable and is of no concern as the intended properties remain. Using a 60 degree inside beveling cone will cut way down on the shaving.

Nicks right, another one to try is the chamfer tool for VLD bullets. I know Lyman has one.

It's a extra step, but if you can, lighty polish the egde of the chamfer inside the neck, and run them back thru your sizer die so the expander ball will burnish any other minute burrs.

Thanks for the information guys.
How do these bullets actually perform on game? The hollowpoints look pritty tiny. I have heard that they penetrate very well though.

As soon as the primer is ignited do you think the blue may be distorted when the bullet smacks the lands? Don't worry about a little flaking off the bullet as you seat it. Good hunting. "D"

Big Stick has posted some pictures over at 24hourcampfire of some of the very few "X's" he has recovered. How about some 75 gr. .257 "X's" that weighed 75 grs each. The only two he has recovered. Impact speeds of over 3000 fps., and almost 3400 fps.
He posted one, the only one he has, 100 gr., .257, XLC. It lost one petal. If I recall correctly, it went 94.6 gr.
He has also used them in various handguns, like the XP-100. He reported they expand OK at low impact speeds as well.
I, too, have found that the XLC will shave off some of their coating, and that it is of no consequence.
I have yet to find an X load that doesn't shoot best just off the lands. I've tried four different X's in both factory (2), and custom barreled rifles (2). E

I wouldn't wory about the coating too much. Bevel the edge of your brass and you should be good. I've never had an X bullet fail to perform, no matter the speed, or distance (put one through a whitetail end to end, chest to tail, from about fifteen feet). I have had problems making them shoot accurately in some of my rifles. The ones that like it get very good groups (270 Win, 130 gr X flat base, RL22, 3000 fps, 3/8" groups consistantly for example). in some of the others, it's more of a shotgun spread. Performance is good enough, that I try them in every hunting rifle I own, to see how well they will work. if they don't I move on to other choices (FailSafe, Partition, Bearclaws, Swift, etc). FWIW - Dan

I took a huge 5X5 Bull Elk in Colorado with a .340 Wby, using a 225 gr. Barnes XLC bullet. The shot was 250 yards and the bullet hit him just over the heart and behind one shoulder and through the off shoulder. He never took a step, nose hitting the ground before his belly. Upon examination while gutting the Bull, I found two little blue flakes of brass just under the hide in the off shoulder. I had the XLC's loaded to 3150 fps. That bullet tore a substantial wound all the way through the lungs, through the off shoulder and completely penetrated, leaving the flakes of brass where it punched through the hide. At the distance I was quite impressed with the bullet and the .340 Wby. My experience is, when they shoot for accuracy in your rifle, the only bullet that will match them in performance is the North Fork. Good shooting.

I have both the vld deburrer from lyman and the one from K&M. If loading 30 cal and under the k&m is much smoother. (I do use the lyman tool for over 30 cal.). These tools will help with the shaving but, a little won't hurt. If you have a friend with the lyman m-die that is also a good tool as it has a slight "step" that lets you ever so slight bell the case mouth which also will work great with the blue bullets.

I've experimented with x bullets in .338-06 and I didn't particurally like them. My gunsmith recommended 140 grain because the light bullet would give .338Mag velocity and trajectory. That's the theory.

In practice, I never got the kind of accuracy I wanted and I tried several weights, several powders and several different lengths.

I went hunting one year with x bullets. I killed a mule deer stone dead with a chest shot and didn't recover the bullet because it went through. That's the good part.

Later, I finished a off a buddy's elk with a neck shot. We recovered that bullet just under the skin with all petals sheared off - just a little brass cylinder. The elk was, of course, dead as a hammer. BUT, if I had hit a heavy shoulder bone or some other less than perfect shot in a an unwounded elk, I'm not sure that the bullet would have penetrated far enough for a humane kill.

I use partition bullets for tough critters. They don't have a gee-whiz trajectory but I feel like I can count on them.

Like the earlier post said, some people like 'em and some don't.

I have found the 120 grain X bullet to be more accurate in my 7-08 ackley improved. 30 thousands of the lands. Kills mule deer like lightning. I buy the 120s from Lazzerine arms they put a silver coating on them like calhoon bullets.As of now barnes does not coat the 130s or 120s.

G Albert,
I have a hard time understanding the point of a 338-06 and then loading 140 grain bullets ? the BC on that must suck, the downrange sucks, the recoil sucks, I mean, whatever floats your boat is fine with me, but when i want to shoot 140 grainers, i carry my 7-08 or 7mm rem mag, when i carry a 338-06, i use 225/250 grainers...
but once again, thats just me ...
on the neck shot elk, did you happen to hit the spinal bones with the shot ? that would explain the loss of petal...

Timely topic as I am working up another batch of loadings of .308 XLCs i have both the new design with swoopier ogive and the old more rounded ogive. the new ones feel really fast just siting in your hand, and I like the more exagerated BT.I wish I could say what kind of accuracy i have with them but last time out while sighting my scope I shot the bse loose so no I have to start over. I bought the 180g for a possible elk hunt next year and I am now wondering if they will be too much for deer in October.

Barnes reccommended .050 off the lands as what most people find as accurate. Should I start there or closer. I have a Stoney point OAL gauge so I will be be taking a reading soon.

Yes, the bullet did go through the neckbone. You are right about the light bullets, too.

I was a victem of bad advice. The Barnes reloading book listed 140 as a an elk load and my gunsmith had good results.

I guess a heavier bullet would have lost its mushroom too but might have had enough momentum to penetrate further.

Anyway, the biggest disapointment was the accuracy. I would have thought such high tech expensive slugs would be better.

So I am thouroughly frustrated with these XLC bullets. I was at the range for 5 hours today trying to get these little bastards to shoot!
The best I ever did was 1.5", with most groups ranging from 2-4"
This is sickening coming from a custom gun that will put matchkings in 0.6"
I tried lots of powder, I tried little powder. I tried the bullets 0.050 off the lands, I tried the bullets hard into the lands, and everything in between.
I am frustrated, but reluctant to give up on these bullets. They provided good velocity, 2950fps from a 7-08 is not bad.

Thomas -- The Barnes XLC's will not shoot accurately in all my rifles. When they don't I try something else. The other premium bullet as tough as the Barnes is the North Fork, with the Swift A-Frame close behind. The regular Barnes X may also be a different story in your barrel. Grizzly Albert -- It appears to me your Barnes XLC performed perfectly. All that energy expended in the pealing off of the petals from the bullet went directly into the neck of your Deer, what more could you ask. If you were aiming at the shoulder and hit the neck, then I would agree with your assessment of the bad accuracy. Good shooting.

I think ill move on and shoot 150gr Sciroccos. The provided stellar performance and very good acuracy last year.

I've found that in at least one of my guns you have to run about 10-15 shots of xlc's down the barrel before it settles onto decent groups.
As fate would have it the gun is a 30-378--just the kind of gun you want to put a bunch of fouling shots through!!

Shooting the XLCs brings up the discussion again of Moly coating your bore before you shoot moly coated bullets or other types of coated bullets (IE: CT- Silvertips, GoldPartitions, FailSafes, etc.)
The easiest way I know of to coat the bore is a "GOOD" bore scrubbing to "CLEAN & DRY" and then the 3 coatings of "MsMoly" with a swab recommended by MsMoly. You can also use the product to coat/spray non-coated bullets instead of tumbling/vibrating you bullets in moly medium- a lot less trouble and a whole lot cleaner.
Then if you can't get your Barnes XLCs to group or your worried about how well they'll spread their pedals on a deer you can shoot something else that will group better from your rifle.
(back to Partitions that have been sprayed or go cheap- save money and buy some Coreloks and spray them).

I bought the 2 can pack of ms moly. the 1st can is almost gone. I like how the bullets turn out but, I just don't seem to have the "balls" to spray it down the barrel. I've read about the guys that do and it seems to work but, man, this stuff sticks like paint and I've been known to do crazy things but I just can't spray it down the barrel and swab it around. Just can't seem to do it..... tell me how you do it and your results. thanks kraky. ps bought some midway moly bore prep--that stuff is like grease and after sitting a couple months separated "out of suspension". (black on one layer and clear on another)

Kraky -- I have never sprayed my barrels with the Moly and don't plan to. I shoot the XLC's with my 7mm STW and .340 Wby, each several hundred rounds, with excellent accuracy and no complaints. I do not have to clean the barrels as often as I do with conventional bullets, with the exception of North Forks. I do find that after a cleaning I need 6 to 10 shots to foul the barrel again, then I am good for 30-40 shots until cleaning is necessary again. Good shooting.

phurley -Do you fire that many fouling rounds for hunting or just when shooting for accuracy?

Petals fall off, they don't group, you may have to use only a match grade bbl and that infers a like new one also!

There is potential here but I am letting the pioneers take the arrows. I took mine and really fouled a nice bbl.

I wish another company would try to make monolitic bullets.

Leo M -- When I prepare for a hunt I may shoot several hundred rounds establishing a load through the rifle I take on the trip. Before I leave on the trip I will have fouled the barrel the necessary rounds and be prepared to shoot several shots determining my scope has not moved in transit. While hunting I will not clean the barrel unless I encounter soaking rains for days, then only patchs with several drying patchs after cleaning. -----Don Martin29 -- Those petals don't just fall off the Barnes XLC bullets, it takes a tremendous amount of energy to get them to shed, all that energy going into the animal and doing damage. Imagine a red hot solid brass bullet twisting according to the barrel twist and plowing through the animal, perhaps sheding a petal or two on the hide on the off side, then blowing an exit hole for more blood loss. Yep, they will not shoot in some barrels, then it is time for the North Fork, unless the North Fork was more accurate to begin with, then it is your primery bullet. I shoot lots of rifles, my old .300 Win shoots the Nosler better than anything else, therefore that is what I shoot in it. I have another that likes a Swift A-frame, that is what I shoot in it. Whatever the barrel likes, suits me fine, it is up to me to shoot enough through it to find out. Don't get hung up on one bullet, you may have to swap the rifle. Good shooting.

I have shot 4 elk with .270 Winchester 140gr boat-tail X bullets. I can only tell you my experience. In every elk shot death was certain and swift. Two of these elk were under 30 yards. I recovered a bullet from one of the short range elk (antlerless bull) and it measured 139grains. This bullet was only recovered because it broke both shoulders. The others passed through.
I have shot several antelope and deer with the same bullet. One texas heart shot antelope dropped with the bullet resting against the brisket with a 200 yard shot. Every Barnes-X bullet I have recovered has been virtually 100 weight retention, very important in smaller calibers on oversize game.
The bad:
I have noticed that a couple long range deer and antelope didn't die real quick. I can only assume that the 140 BT X bullet load I am using doesn't encounter enough resistance to open up well on smaller animals at long range. However, I would rather a bullet not open fully than have a bullet blow a surface wound in a shoulder.

Take several bullets you are considering in your caliber and test them. Put magazines, phone books, etc. in an elogated box and shoot them. Recognize which bullets blow up and which hold together. Try setting one or two milk jugs of water in front of the paper trap to slow the bullet before it arrives. Read some books. Ideal deer bullets may be total crap for elk.

Also, while this has been beat to death, any individual that comes on and talks trash about what has worked for others and condemns a bullet without caliber, weight, animal, distance, velocity, and other information is simply a damn fool.

In short:
If using a .270 or other smaller caliber for elk I highly recommend the barnes X bullet. This bullet may indeed shed petals but if velocity is high enough for this to happen then any other selection of bullet is going to perform poorly as well.

Also: You might want to try the other stuff first because if you get hooked on Barnes X it is an expensive habit to feed. You can't stuff as much powder in the cases obviously because the bullet is copper so is longer.

[ 08-27-2002, 11:30: Message edited by: jeremy w ]

PAT you and I have EXACTLY THE SAME PHILOSOPHY! I feel "THE BEST" premium bullet is the nosler, swift, barnes, gs custom, northfork that your gun LIKES BEST. I figure any one of these that groups tight at 300 yds is the winner. Not a one of these bullets is better than the next in any given condition. Any bullet can fail at anytime but the odds of the above winners failing is minimal--oops i mean MINIMAL!!

Phurley- If I am shooting XLC'S can I foul the bore with the plain X bullet?

Leo M -- The barrels I shoot the XLC's through get only XLC's when shooting or fouling. The same goes for the Nosler Gold bullets, Berger Moly, etc. I find if I shoot a non-coated bullet through that barrel, for a period the group size seems to change, as well as the point of impact of the group on the target. If I am not preparing that rifle for a hunt and just playing around with a new bullet, it doesn't matter what changes, however I keep all targets to refer to in the future. Those old targets tell lots of good information, perhaps forgotten the day of the shooting. Preparing for a hunt, I stick strictly to that XLC bullet for all preparation, prior to a hunt. Good shooting.

I did the Barnes X Shuffle with 2 of my rifles this summer...and I moved on.