Other than excluding them from your group hunts, how do you guys deal with a "jerk" in camp?

My local hunting party consists of myself and three family members. Unfortunately, one member has a history of being very hard to get along with.

On a recent hunt he was insufferable. There were three of us in camp(one guy couldn't make it) and our jerk found a reason to get loud and rude with myself or the other guy at least once a day. The biggest issue was that once he got going we couldn't get him to stop. When he felt slighted or disrespected(happened several times, always unfounded) we would apologize, then when that didn't work we would say, "alright, let's drop it." Neither tactic had any effect. He would rant and rant until he ran out or words.

On the last night he butted into a conversation that I was having with the other guy. Then, when I agreed with him on a point he was making he loudly accused me of interrupting him and went on for about five more minutes "educating" us on a very mundane issue. I don't think I said more than two words the rest of the night. It was probably the worst night I have ever spent in camp. Thank God it was only a 3 and a half day hunt...

I'm hesitant to post this because I know I will get a lot of "just don't invite the jerk" replies. The problem is that I am trying to avoid simply excluding him from the group(after all, he is family, and if we don't take him he won't get to go).

He is already taking about going out of state together next year. I know that I couldn't take a week+ with him with him if he acts like he did this year.

Have any of you found a way to rein-in the camp jerk so that everyone can have a good time?

Welllllll, you really have only one solution, assuming that the other two agree with you. And you know what that is. There is no magic to getting a jerk out of camp. You just make plans with the other two and don't include him and when he asks, you have to tell him very factually that he just doesn't seem to fit in and perhaps he'd be happier finding another group to hang with. It helps your credence if the other two are present when you do this. In fact, I don't think I'd have a face to face with the jerk without them present. It is for the common good, you know.
It's hard, I know but it's like pulling a bandaid off of your hairy chest. You can prolong the agony or you can get it over with. The real question is: are you going to continue to let him ruin your hunts and camping trips. Maybe, if you can't bring this off, you need to find another group to hang with.

I guess his getting to go is more important than the other having a good time. If he is such a jerk why do you care if he goes or not?

If everyone feels the same way have a come to Jesus meeting and lay out the facts and let him choose if he wants to change, not likely, or not be part of the group.

I've only shared a camp with one jerk. And, thankfully he wasn't family and I only had to be around him that one hunt. He was without a doubt the most boorish and foolish indiviual I've ever met.

My father and I went on a hunt in BC for black bear. The others in camp were all from TX with one exception and he was from NJ. Now, I'm Colorado born and being around the TX boys was great. They were friendly, helpful and respectful. But Jersey Boy was another thing completely. He drank almost non-stop. Didn't like his bed in the cabin and kicked the cook out of her's. He wouldn't get up to hunt, and couldn't walk. Yet all we heard was about how great a hunter he was.

Everything to this guy was a challenge. He was waving a wad of cash around betting he would get the biggest bear. He tried to bet everyone that he would bed down the cook. He dropped that bet when he found out the cook was the outfitter's youngest daughter. There was a lake nearby and when my father was doing a little fishing he ran up and waved the cash and started boasting how he could catch better fish than Dad could.

When I finally had enough and told him to just shut the hell up, he asked if I wanted to step outside. I was sitting in a chair in the cabin and looked him right in the eye and told him if I got out of the chair he wouldn't get outside becasue I would kick his ass then and there. I think he got the hint. At that time I had been in the military for about 14 years and wasn't too afraid of a fat middle aged punk from Jersey.

The outfitter finally had to take the guy aside and tell him if he didn't knock the BS off he would personally drive him 4 hrs back to town and drop him off and that there would be no refund. After that he was real quiet.

By the time it was done, my father took a chocolate colored bear that squared 7'1". I took the next biggest with a coal black one that squared 6'11". Everybody in camp got good bears except Jersey. He got a little bitty chocolate that squared less than 5'. Funny thing, when we tried to collect the bets he placed for bigger bears, he suddenly got forgetful.

That was the last group hunt I went on and I won't go on another. I'll hunt with people I know I can get along with from now on.

Can't pick your relatives. You can't change people, they are what they are. How do you balance the idea of giving up this one hunt versus suffering through it year after year.

On the positive side, life is short and with any luck your problem will self correct within a few years.

Good luck, and don't become like him.

I think the answers and comments given sum it up pretty well. It is the groups choice as to which is more important, leave the person behing and enjoy the hunt, or take the person along and be miserable.

I can put up with a jerk when I am being paid to guide the person, when it come to my own hunting, I either hunt alone or with one or two long time aquaintences.

Let me take a punt and try to analyse this....

This person is obviously a close family member and therefore the relationship is valued significantly.

Reading your brief description, this person has some behavioural issues stemming from being the youngest, smallest or having a bossy parent. He probably has a parent who is even worse! Does he have deep issues of rejection because his parents split up when he was young? Any way ... He has a persucution complex of some sort. He probably has difficulty at work too and with women. Most of all, I think this guy is so caught up with his own emotional problems that he has no clue that he is being a pain the but. He is not capable of objectively looking at himself in the mirror and fully understanding what is going on.

Since you want to continue the relationship and include him in the group, the only option is to get him to realize that he has behavioural problems that are upseting others and get him to take responsibility for fixing it. Since he is incapable of taking feedback and unable to moderate his own behaviour (he goes on for the whole day and the next day - & blames others for it), the only way you are going to get the penny to drop for him is to video some of his rants. You need solid video evidence for half an hour or more so that it is very clear to anyone seeing the video later as to who is the loudest, who is most emotional & who interupts who!

I would suggest that you all get together as a group and have a chat with this guy and tell him that the hunting camps are not very enjoyable and something needs to be done about it. He is sure to get defensive and start a rant again. Now play the video clip and explain to him that you want to help but it is his responsibility to stop spoiling a good thing for the whole family. He is sure to get very upset when he first sees the video. You will have to be patient and kind when getting him to recognise the problem. It will take more than one discussion. May be several.

I would suggest that you do not threaten to exclude him from the group but try to convey the message that he is a valued family member with a problem that you all want to help him with. This is very important.

You have to recognise that this is a personality issue and you will never get a permanent solution. You need to manage the issue and it starts with this guy acknowledging the problem and the rest of you helping him. Once he acknowledges the problem, you are 50% there. Whithout this acknowledgement on his part you have no hope!

Once he acknowledges the problem he needs to feel comfortable that you guys are not rejecting him and really want to help. You may need to develop some sort of a game or a joke to give a signal when ever it looks like a rant is starting. You will need to also help him develop an alternate way of expressing himself. The rants are just his way of letting off his pent up emotions. He will still need to get them out in a differnt way that is acceptable to the others. You could probably start a camp tradition of videos and give him positive feedack when he has been well behaved! You could make him the camp video man!

Your cousing needs emotional healing! You guys are obviously a caring family & he is lucky to have you all around him.

Good luck and God bless.

Personally, I'm not in the Dr. Phil business. His problems are his problems, not yours, unless you choose to let them be. I read what you said, but I'd either not go and tell them why, or come to an agreement with the other two to uninvite him. Life's way too short to have to VOLUNTARILY put up with anyone that seriously interferes with your enjoyment of hunting and the hunting camp IMO. Anyone can have a bad day, but this guy sounds like he makes a career out of it. If he doesn't get to go hunting, that is his problem not yours.

Throw him a Blanket Party.

You can't change him.

By inviting him year after year, why would he? His behavior has no negative consequences.

Tell him to straighten up or hunt with someone else.

But I got a dollar that says he won't.

So either don't invite him or deal with it without complaining. (because no one wants to listen to you whine about it and yet not do anything when you could easily fix it by not inviting him, family or not.)

Pretty clear cut, I am afraid.

Good luck.

Have you ever seen Full Metal Jacket?

JBrown,

I pronghorn hunted last October in the Texas panhandle just south of Skeelytown on the Rocking Chair Ranch.
I killed a better than average goat but my hunt was less than enjoyable because another hunter was an asshole.

PM me and I will fill you in.

Hunting brings out the worst in some men.

I don't have a clue why.

I had a similar issue with my brother and fishing trips. Finally on one trip I just had to look him straight in the face and say your my brother but if you keep acting like and a-hole this will be the last fishing trip I ever invite you on! That was 6 trips ago and he as been a different guy ever since.

quote:

Hunting brings out the worst in some men.

+1

One of you guys needs to man-up and tell the big mouth that he is an asshole and from now on he isnt included in your hunting party.

I imagine he rules the roost at home and people pussy-foot around him so as not to upset him . Well , tough shit . If you dont like his behaviour then tell him , dont invite him any more and get on with your own life.

quote:

One of you guys needs to man-up and tell the big mouth that he is an asshole and from now on he isnt included in your hunting party.

I imagine he rules the roost at home and people pussy-foot around him so as not to upset him . Well , tough shit . If you dont like his behaviour then tell him , dont invite him any more and get on with your own life.

Right on, Muzza! This is exactly what I would have said.

I would just tell him like it is - no two ways about it.

If he wants to change and be respectful, fair enough. You have to be clear with him, however, that you've already had enough, and anything more means that you won't be going along with him in the future.

Just leave it at that, "I won't be hunting with you." Don't fall into the trap of saying "you're not hunting with us/me/you can't come." He may take it that way, of course, but you can't control that. Just say, "if this is how you treat people, I'm not going to be around."

Lastly, don't feel sorry for him just because he's family. Jesus said, "love one another", but that doesn't mean you have to like him; nor does that mean you should be a door-mat to his repeated antics and abusive behavior.

Well, good luck and God bless,

friar

I had an Uncle that once he got going he would not stop and endless stream of profanity. Would always fig a way not to settle his share of the expenses. I hand enough after the last time and I hunt alone,and I just don't put up with it. Last trip with Uncle was in 1972 I was pretty young but I learned a lesson. Its a tough one. Family can be a royal pain. My Uncle passed a in 2006 Hadn't talked to him in over 20 years. Life is to short for that junk.

I've guided way too many groups that had their hunts ruined by people acting like idiots. One tactic I've seen is to leave that person behind for one or two trips to see if they realize that they're not automatically invited and if they make a mess of the group they are in fact dispensable on the trips. Sometimes that can straighten them out.

But unfortunately I've also seen where groups completely disband because of one jerk that no one will kick out.

JBrown, I know you're a super serious hunter so this tactic probably wouldn't apply to you - but I've seen groups simply claim to the jerk that they've quit hunting - when in fact they just don't let the trouble-maker in on the trips anymore. This probably wouldn't work for a close relative because of all the communication avenues.

Best of luck, that's a tough one.

muzza posted the correct answer imo.

I agree with Naki and MNhunter. Very often all these clowns need to know is that there is a limit. The suggestion that this thread be sent to him isn't a bad idea, either. Do not negotiate. Simply inform him that he must behave like a gentleman or it's all over. This approach often works with people who allow themselves to be abusive. Good luck

If it helps, the most sucessful modifications to my behavior have been when I have been firmly or bluntly confronted with it. Your confrontation doesn't have to be nasty or vular just very straight, no negotiating.

Take him out behind the tent and put your foot up his ass and tell him it will continue till he can behave himself. He will either have a sore ass or behave

Guys, thanks for the great response. I think I gained something from every reply(even the two "blanket party" recommendations).

To give a little more background on the group and my reasons for wishing that we could keep things intact.... There are four in our group, myself(school teacher, single dad raising a 2 year old daughter), my younger cousin(rookie hunter) and his dad (my uncle the "jerk", 59 years old) and my grandpa(79 year old, doesn't hunt much, but loves to get out and be the camp manager).

The truth is that I really don't know how much longer my grandpa is going to make these hunts and I really like the idea of us being able to do this as a family. Also, I would feel really bad for my cousin if we excluded his father(the jerk), and I sure don't want to exclude my cousin as he is a great young guy and I only get to see him a couple of times a year. On the other hand, my cousin has mentioned leaving his father behind in the past when his father's inability to get ready on time was holding-up our departure(a very common theme with my uncle).

I know I make him sound like a total jerk, but he is actually a really interesting and pleasant guy when he is not being a total jerk.... In his defense, his is going through some marital troubles. But even when his marriage was going well he could be a jerk at times. Now it is just completely over the top. His mother and sister have said that they have never seen him this bad and they both wondered if he is going through some type of physiological problem that is affecting his temperament. His wife(who has moved three hours away) had complained that he had seemed to become increasingly stubborn and unreasonable.

Another dimension is the fact that my uncle loves to "plan" hunting trips, but he always wants to leave late and come home early. He had basically given up hunting although he would never admit it(in the past 30 years he had only hunted two or three seasons until my cousin started hunting last year. Always "too busy").

My uncle also has a tendency to put me in charge of gathering information and planning our trips, but he always tries to veto anything he disagrees with. As soon as this trip was over he was pumping me to plan an out of state trip for next year.

After giving it some thought I have decided that I am not going to go an any extended trip with my uncle unless he shows a drastic change(slim chance). And as soon as the planning of next year's trip comes up I am going to tell him specifically why I am not going to hunt with him. If he is willing to try to change(really doubtful) I might go on a local hunt to see if he can follow the camp rules(run as a democracy, civil to each other at all times). But I will have an exit plan.

Thanks again for all the advice.

quote:

Originally posted by talentrec:
Have you ever seen Full Metal Jacket?

Yea...that didn't turn out so well.

Perry

Unfortunately "the jerk" leaves you no choice in how to deal with him. Try this: since you're hunting with 3 family members including "the jerk", talk with the other 2 members. Make an agreement that the 3 of you will simply not tolerate his behavior and you will collectively stand firm against him.

When "the jerk" gets started, gang up on him. Give it to him what he gives to you - do not let up or budge. 3 against 1 will make for a tough time for "the jerk". Let HIM decide if he wants to hunt with YOU next time.

After reading your response above, maybe another route and this is a hard one, but if all of his family, including his wife/soon to be ex-wife, are noticing that he has become more obstinant during the past few years or that it has grown worse during the past couple of years, there maybe some physically wrong, some type of chemical imbalance in his system, or it could be depression or something along those lines. Fifty-nine is not too young for dementia to set in.

Sorry for the run on sentence, but some of his problem might be health related. Maybe if enough of you noticing this behavior mentioned it to him and tried talking him into dicussing your familites concerns about his health with his Dr..

He is probably not going to take the concerns real well, but, if preasnted in the right way, he might discuss it with his Dr..

Just a thought from a different angle. I know I would not want to have deal with that type of situation.

A very interesting read. I have learned 2 things from this.

1. A significant number of people believe that hunting somehow makes people bad or assholes. I have to disagree. You are what you are period.

2. A significant number of people can't judge their relatives fairly. You can't fix the problem unless you admit there is one.

3. The smart one is the guy doing exactly what he wants. The dumb one is the guy worried about family dynamics, and so preoccupied with his relative that he posts the issue on AR.

4. In hindsight I have made all these mistakes myself.

Oops I didn't mean to type I learned "2".

Anyone else wonder if any of the posters on this thread might be their family's asshole?

quote:

Originally posted by SG Olds:
The dumb one is the guy worried about family dynamics, and so preoccupied with his relative that he posts the issue on AR.

So, I guess we all know who you are referring to.


I have to admit that I was very hesitant to post this topic, but I am glad that I did. Each reply has helped me to see that there is no magic bullet that is going to make things run smoothly. The only answer is to cease hunting with the my uncle.

BTW, I have realized that my inclination to try to work around his behavior mirrors what the family as a whole has been doing. And trying to tiptoe around the behavior has allowed it to continue.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Fifty-nine is not too young for dementia to set in.

Crazyhorse
It is funny that you should mention dementia. His grandfather suffered from dementia and became a real bear in his later years.

My uncle's mother(my grandma) has already mentioned that she is concerned that my uncle might have some type of imbalance. She believes that my uncle may have an idea that something is wrong(he in in the medical profession) and that is why he is so touchy about being wrong or forgetful.

I keep thinking about something my uncle said when I was encouraging him not to hold a grudge against my grandfather for teasing him(My grandfather had told him that he had miscounted the number of tent stakes. My uncle then flew off the handle and ranted and raved at my grandfather. A huge overreaction...) The day following the blow-up I "gently" told my uncle that he should not get upset at my grandfather's (very minor)teasing. He flew off the handle again and said, "I'm NEVER going to let him get away with that! He does that because he wants to make me look forgetful."

What does "being forgetful" have to do miscounting the number tent stakes?

I know this is off topic, but my Mother had a real problem with her potassium level. If it dropped below a certain point she was completely out of it. Quite a few time visiting her in the nursing home, the nurses would meet me at the door and tell me that Mom was not herself.

I would go in and talk to her a few minutes and then come back out and ask if they had checked the potassium level in her blood. Many times they had not. I would ask them to check it and then give her a banana, no we are not monkeys, but after eating the banana and giving it 30 minutes or so to digest, she would be normal.

I hope that you can work things out so that your family can get back to enjoying its time together.

I think the guy who talked about videoing the jerk's behavior is in the right ballpark. As he pointed out, your post largely excludes the obvious solution -- outlaw the jerk. Thus, the problem becomes how to change the jerk, how to amend or reduce the volume on the jerk.

Some of your description makes me think that the jerk feels out of his depth, feels inferior, lacks self-confidence. One way to address this is to try to reassure this guy. Tell him he is family and as such is wanted in camp. Tell him you are all there primarily to enjoy the opportunity to grow closer as a family, to develop good memories with parents, siblings, children -- to some extent the hunting is incidental. Point out that everything is not about him, that some conversations need not include him or be about him. Ask that he remain civil and polite. Try to deal with him sincerely: I suspect if you attempt deceiving him that he may sense that and this could make things worse. So far as what I said above, I would think you could say those things sincerely.

On the other hand, if there are physical problems, as was suggested as a possibility, that is a different problem that I don't know how to accommodate or deal with.

I feel your pain and wish it were not a problem. Getting away for a good hunting trip is hard enough, too bad you have to have this extra difficulty thrown into the mix.

We had one on a fishing trip. After 3day of the drunk,loud, vulgar, lazy jerk. I told him in a sober morning that if he pulled that sh!! one more time i was going to kick his drunk a$$ and leave him on a lake to walk back to camp! Most lake we fish where 5-8 mile from camp! He got real quiet and was that way all day. That night at the campfire he said that he was sorry and and has become a fun camper to have around.I think he just don't know what a jerk he was being!Clint

Jason,
There's tons of good advice from all the other members, but it sure sounds like many years of un-diagnosed bi-polar disorder. If it is, at 59, I seriously doubt you're going to do anything about it. I have a middle-aged relative (by marriage) that we're pretty sure is bi-polar, but parents, children, and former husband were all either enablers or just wouldn't deal with it. The only thing that improves YOUR situation is to confront the person head-on and let the chips fall where they may. There are still issues, but he/she at least knows where the boundaries are.

Life is too short to just put up with that crap, especially for a single dad raising a two-year old ---God bless you young man.

As has been already stated, Muzza is on the right track. You have to let him know his behaviour is unacceptable (no one is a mind reader).

You may have to treat him like a child. Set limits to his behaviour, explain what those limits are are and be consistant with them. Say to him: If you do that, we will do this.
Simplistic I know but this guy isn't skilled enough to read what is going on.

'Course you could take the easy way out and print this entire post and mail it to him. Blackening out the various poster's names.