I click. Good scopes are very reliable. Mil-dots and other reticles are okay for wind, but clicking is better.

My opinion is formed from weekly shooting at ranges up to 700 yards. I also click for wind, which is the real buggaboo, and one that you can only learn from pracice. So if you live in NYC or Chicago, oh well...

I don't want to start flames, but in my opinion if your talking about big game you should be able to aim at hair. If the animal is father than that "IT'S TOO FAR" get closer! In most cases that is going to be around 300yds, for most guns using the right bullet and PBR. Maybe up to 400 for some real flat shooters or elk size game. Remember we're suppose to be hunters. My $.02, capt david

Not I. Once im in the field the scope adjustments stay put. Most of the people I know just zero in for about 200 yds which makes the majority of shots fairly simple. I also like to try to be able to react fairly quickly if needs be and that means practicing holdover.



I used to have a scope with a bullet drop compensator on my 7mm RM that at the onset I thought was pretty neat, but it never proved practical.



I expect that the avid varminters will adjust more frequently than most hunters going for larger game.

I want to be able to reliably hit what I'm aiming at and for that reason I will dial in for many of my shots. It is far more effective than holding off - I used to hold off in the past, but it is not a good option at longer ranges. Good quality scopes will handle this quite accurately, eg Leupold, Nightforce, etc.

Fergus

RT-for my long range hunting and predator riflesI use two methods, one is the 3" high method and I also use the Premier reticle system.

My 6/06 has a 6-20 Leo with Premier dotz to 700 on it, and my 7 Mashburn Super has a 4-14 Leo on it with dotz to 700.

I haven't used the click much but I can tell you this and that with practice and with a good range finder you can do some incredible things with the Premier system. Just range and pick your dot.

If you have good control and have practiced a lot with this system once you know the range,mirage,angle and wind you can do some uterly amazing things with such a rig. IF you have the time in with the system, and have the disciplin to know when to shoot and when not to.

Just my thoughts.

Have a good week!

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

Yup, I adjust the scope for the proper range setting once they're beyond 200 yards out or so. I'd rather have the rifle zero'd to where the critter is than where it aint.

Given that I might need to adjust between 60 inches of elevation, yes, I adjust elevation while hunting - all the time. That's why one pays really big bucks for good iron sights.

Brent

Interesting thread; looking forward to reading the replies.

Have always used holdover, myself. Never had enough confidence in the repeatability of my hunting scopes to use comeups and the only target scope I had on a hunting rifle was 8x fixed so saw somewhat limited hunting use.

Recently put a Buris 4.5-14 w/their new balistic plex reticle on my 300 Win Mag. This takes any guesswork out of holdover and so far has worked flawlessly.

Liked this reticle enough to get their 3-9's for my 338 WM and 30-06, making shots on small bodied coyotes easy out to 300 yds. (so far have not been able to get to a range where I can shoot farther than 300 yds, but am confident they will perform equally well at the longer ranges).

While the Buris scopes have proven very repeatable, I prefer to use the "plex" reticle since it works well, thereby avoiding any possibility of dialing in a comeup and subsequently forgetting to set back to the normal zero.

Regards,
hm

Just out of curiosity... do any of you dial in the correct elevation when hunting? Out west, especially, I'm wondering if all of you just use hold-over or shoot only within your "kill zone" range (i.e., three inches high to three inches low, for example)... or, given enough time to make the adjustment, if any of you take a moment to dial in for the actual yardage?



Russ

It depends on the hunt and the scope, but sometimes yes.

With my long range setup I zero the scope at 100, add a couple of MOA and am setup for most shots under 350 yards. Out past 350 yards I range it, guess the wind, dial in come ups and windage on the scope and shoot. I use this method for big game out to around 600 yards and for varmints (where a miss is okay) around 950 which is where I run out of elevation in my current setup. Of course each situation needs to be evaluated independently.

Since this is the big game forum, I'm confining my opinions to large game and not things like prairie dogs (which I've never shot at).

Valid or not, I believe it is bad mojo to monkey with your sights while in the field. On top of that, I've never really had the luxury of extra time to do all that figuring and fiddling. You know all those pictures of some huge deer or elk in the middle of a meadow showing off for a cow? Well I've never ever had something like that present itself to me! Pretty much most all my hunting experiences have been on some animal moving from cover to cover and I'm doing good just to get the gun up and figure if holdover is needed.

If I move out west I may change my opinion but that is how it stands right now.

anotheraz-yep that is one of the challenges, when I first went to the Premier system I was gonna do dotz at 50 yard increments. They people at Premier talked me out of it, I am glad that they did.

I use the system a lot and while it is not perfect for the in between ranges, I've learned to use it very well.

I shoot a lot of chucks/pd's/yotes and targets and rocks at long range and for me it works out quite well.

On the plus side, it is one less thing to do when taking a shot at range. By this I mean I am not taking the time to figure and count the clicks, although I understand that many who click can do it very quickly. I'll have to try this method some day as well.

One last thing when it comes to reading how to hold for the inbetween targets I've found that with practice it is very easy to make the hits. The long gong at our range is 434, no problem hitting the spot I want to on it. But then agian I've put in the practice.

Lastly, I'd just say that this long range gig isn't for those not willing to put in a lot of time behind the but! I am willing and I do, so I am comfy in taking the shots. That doesn't mean I always will but if all is in my favor then I will drop the hammer.

Just some thoughts from my camp this morn.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

Mark:

I have 4 Premier dots, but the problem is you don't know where to hold if the range is 643 yards. If you shoot a lot, you don't even have to look at your drop table - you just know it. Beyond 600 yards, a 180 grain bullet at 3000fps is dropping nearly 4 inches per ten yards of travel - IMO, you have to click to hit. If you do, holding for elevation is not that difficult if you know where the bullet is actually going to hit (meaning, you also need to shoot in all kinds of temperature conditions and learn how many clicks to add/subtract at a given range).

The guy who can hit a target in a 20 mph wind at 400 will kill nore animals than a guy who can hit them off a benchrest at 1000 yards but only when the wind is calm.

Nothing fancy for me in Idaho.I have my .270 and .300 both three inches high at 100 yards and have had every since I can remember.It covers me as far as I care to shoot.I never have been much of a paper shooter but this way I never have to guess on hold over out past 300 which makes even Elk look small.

Good luck.....Jayco

On big game I never monkey with the sights while afield. The sights are set, I range using the plex in the scope and if its beyond a hold on hair, I get closer. An animal that is so far away that it is unaware of you to the point that you have time to compute wind direction, velocity, altitude, distance and so forth is also aware of you to the point that you can make a stalk. If you don't feel that you can get closer, its not your shooting skills that need attention. I mean even if you think you miss the shot, you, as a decent hunter, have got to walk over to where the animal was to make sure you missed, so why not cut the distance by half or more and then shoot when you are reasonably positive you can make the shot?

Mark- I see your point and for rifles that do not have a target/click system on it I'd never begin to think about moving the sights either.

But, if you're talking about long range calculated shooting then I'd be for moving the sights via a click system in a jiffy. Just talk to some sillohuette (sorry bad spl this morn) and without my darn reading specs...well never mind.

Both the click system and the Premier system will work amazing wonders once on has the time in using it. Of course you need to use a range finder as well.

So if you ever get a chance try shooting with such a system some time, me thinks you'll find it heap big bad medicine mojo for those targets involved once you get the hand of it.

Lastly such a system is not needed for all types of terrain but for the open west and southwest it'll work wonders.

Have a great week!

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

Hey Russ, Thanks for the report on the Ching Sling. I've got a HUGE 50 bench Range I can go to down near Fort Knox called Knob Creek that generally has all kinds of folks shooting there even during mid-week. The next time I go down there, I feel sure someone there will have one and I'll look at it a bit closer. Going to be hard for me to change from the "Hasty Sling" because I've used it for a very long time now. Habits are hard to break.

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I was messing with the Temporary Posts in the yard today. We haven't had any rain in about 3 weeks now and the clay soil is pretty hard. The Posts did fine going in though which surprised me a bit.

They even came with "molded in clips" for hanging the Temporary Plastic Fencing on. The bottom clips will open enough to allow the cardboard to slip in with a bit of effort. Looks like I need to do just a bit of trimming on the top of that clip and it will do fine. Then a loop made with a Plastic Tie-Wrap through the cardboard and around the top of the post should keep the wind from taking off with the Targets.

I always used 1"x1" stakes (like Tobacco Sticks) before, but when the ground is hard they can be a problem and I had to hammer them in.

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Best of luck with the l-o-n-g distance shooting. Lots to learn about it. If you are in to Martial Arts, keep it up. It is a big help with controling the heartbeat both physically and mentally.

On Ching Slings:

My Dad was a Marine and he and my paternal grandfather taught me to shoot. (I sure didn't learn from the Army! Sore subject.) A lot of my learning, growing up, was with using a sling. I'm REAL big on using a sling for shooting.

I came across the Ching Sling and tried one and LOVED it, then have bought two more for subsequent rifles. If you buy one and make the correct adjustments for your arm length and so on, I think you can get a lot of benefit from it. They're FAST to get into and rock steady to use -- well, as steady as you can get with a sling. They're GREAT for standing shots, which I dread, and for kneeling and sitting -- and in the field, you're usually taking shots from one of these three positions. If you're getting good prone opportunities in the field on a regular basis, you're luckier than I.

I use the model that comes from The Wilderness; they sell a nylon version of the Ching Sling that is lighter than leather and not as subject to the elements.

I know they look a bit "odd," with the third-point attachment, but if you can think outside the box and come at it with an open mind and give using one of them a chance, I think you'll be quite surprised and very pleased.

I like shooting with a sling, and prefer to use one over bipods and shooting sticks. I do carry collapsible shooting sticks with me, though, and they are a good "assist" for some shots while also using a sling. Given my druthers, though, I'd prefer a sling and a good sitting position and/or a good tree limb to use as a rest.

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Great idea on those plastic fence posts. I'll have to see if the local Farm & Fleet carries something like them.

Russ