During my travels over the last month I have seen large and robust wintering herds of Elk here in SW Montana. I have not been travleing or Hunting from the Yellowstone River and east but I have virtually been all over the rest of the SW corner of the state. Newspaper reports, eye witness accounts and aerial surveys have verified that the Wolves are taking Elk at an alarming rate in the area north and north east of Yellowstone Park. The Bozeman chronicle has an article relating that the Elk herd was down 23% from last year for "unknown" reasons. I have a copy of the report if anyone is interested. The article also relays how the Elk calf crop last year was censused at 9% of the northern Yellowstone herd. It takes a 30% population of calves to just maintain a herd! The article states that Wolves or maybe drought had reduced the calf numbers? Well in my opinion there are enough rivers, streams, creeks, lakes, sloughs and springs to maintain the Elk. I am sure the Wolves are harming the herds around Yellowstone!
Having said that if anyone is interested in Hunting SW Montana or western Montana I would say go for it - but stay way from the Park perimeter by at least 50 airmiles.
The latest report I have on the drought here that continues through the winter is the snowpack is at 63% of normal for this time of year! This is our 5th year in a row of severe drought conditions in SW Montana. Fires will most likely be a problem this summer also. The non-resident Game license applications are just now available as of this week and the number for requesting them is 1-406-444-2535.
The good news for the coming year is the Elk are at record numbers for the areas away from the park (as of last years census). Also the winter is and has been very mild in all of western Montana. There is not much chance at all of significant winter die off this year! In addition the closing date for Big Game Hunting (Deer, Elk and Bear) will be late this year November 30th, 2003 and the last week of the late season will be during the dark phase of the moon! With any help with tracking snow that late last week, the Elk Hunting especially should be as good as it gets! The closing date for Big Game Hunting in Montana changes every year on a rotational basis. It always closes the Sunday after Thanksgiving. Some years that is as late as December 1st (as it did this past year). This year the Sunday after Thanksgiving will be November 30th and then next year it will be November 29th and on down earlier and earlier til it gets to November 24th and then it will bounce back the next year to December 1st. This late week of Hunting can really be beneficial to Elk Hunters especially in the mountain regions of western Montana.
Bottom line if you are interested in Montana Big Game Hunting this year should be a good one! The Wolf problem is only going to get worse in the future in my opinion. The Antelope herds are doing well in all of Montana as I see them in my travels. The area I Hunted Antelope last year (eastern Montana) was very well populated and I contribute this to an increase in and a renewed interest in Coyote Hunting. I also went along on an Antelope Hunt here in SW Montana later in the season and according to the knowledgeable guys I was with the herds were very healthy here.
Whitetails in the western part of the state and the NW corner of Montana are doing better but the Blue Tongue disease in eastern Montana has held the Whitetail numbers down over there. Mule Deer are doing better in eastern Montana where I Hunt them and again I attribute this to increased Coyote Hunting. Mule deer in western Montana are just holding their own - nothing to rave about at all here. There are just way to many predators here in SW Montana to maintain good Mule deer numbers. Cougars, Bears, Coyotes and Wolves - just to much pressure on the Mulies in my opinion.
Good luck if you decide to try Montana this year.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Maybe it's that 72lb. coyote that's getting all the game?

I have posted this before and will stand by it........In two years, three years maximum, the Gardiner elk hunt will be history. The wolves are taking so much of the calf crop that hunting will no longer be required.

FN

I wonder if Judy Martz will stand by her orders to Ed Bangs to get his wolves out of the Paradise Valley. Sure wasn't much made of it in the news, that's for sure.

Guys, the bitches are going to be whelping in another six weeks or so. If you're in an area that has wolves, get some hunts going. Yes, there is some risk involved, but we must stand up and do something. Even if the Fed's decided to reverse thierselves tomorrow, it would be ten years before we saw any action. Contact your friends. Do it now. Most areas are accessible due to low snow pack. Check known wintering areas. Shoot, and don't approach the wolf afterwards. Wound or kill, keep evidence at a minimum. Never answer any questions at all. Don't be stupid enough to take pictures.

It is up to us to save our elk herd, not to mention what has happened to the bighorn sheep and moose in some areas.

On your feet, or on your knees. Which will it be?

Montana residents, you are not alone. Our game herds here in Idaho are being hammered hard by the wolves, too.

Of course, all those liberal bliss ninnies who just "love" wolves, and in whose interest (financially, or emotionally) it is to keep the wolves proliferating and destroying as much game as possible, refuse to ever admit that there is any problem, whatsoever.

VarmitGuy, my two buddies and I are intending to hunt up in the north east portion of Idaho, near the SW corner of Montana, which you described. We have not yet picked the Zone.

Were you taking about the Beaverhead Nat'l Forest that butts up against the Idaho State Line? Any suggestions for our hunting in Idaho, but near that area of Idaho/Montana??

Thanks. L.W.

L.W.

I was wondering what waksupi ment. A quick read of your post made it clear. It must mean POACHER .
If you poach wolves you'll poach deer or elk or whatever you want when you want because you don't believe that game laws apply to you.

You believe that wolves are eradicating the elk and need to be taken care of by you outside of game laws . What do you you do when elk numbers are high ? Do you figure you can set your own
bag limits for the good of the game herd. Would this be you post then :

Guys, the elk are going to be in record numbers this year. If you're in an area that has extra elk, get some hunts going. Yes, there is some risk involved, but we must stand up and do something. Even if the Fed's decided to reverse thierselves tomorrow, it would be ten years before we saw any action. Contact your friends. Do it now. Most areas are accessible due to low snow pack. Check known wintering areas. Shoot, and don't approach the elk till dark. Wound or kill, keep evidence at a minimum. Never answer any questions at all. Don't be stupid enough to take pictures.

I don't agree with your methods thats all .
Dont forget to vote and let your representatives know your stand on wolves.

VarmintGuy,

Do you know of any good outfitters in the SW Montana area? Are tags easy to get or is there a draw? I've been itching to schedule an elk hunt.

Thanks.

Tim

They want to end your hunting rights. Why do you think the commies wanted wolves there in the first place. They had better institute a season soon, or wolves are all their going to have. Not going to condone nor condemn the previous post, been around cattle ranches to long not to know what it is like dealing with the Federales.

Rmiller
If you want to call me a poacher, go ahead. I'll take the name if that's what it takes. The liberals like to call names on things they don't agree with.
When the elk populations get too high, they give out more tags. They give none for wolves. We've had the Feds refuse to re-imburse ranchers for killed livestock here. They say the ranchers are "baiting" the wolves, because they aren't rounding up thier stock at night and putting them in a barn. This idea is more than ridiculous.
I don't know about your area, but we're damn poor around here, and many families depend on the meat every year. This is a matter of survival.

Glad it ain't just me! Just 'cuz I'm paranoid, doesn't mean I'm wrong. Wolves are the end game.

Sadly, it isn't limited to the areas around the parks. There are many packs throughout MT and ID and from all indications they've nearly wiped out the prey populations.

Let's not forget how the wolf populations will be regulated, per The Plan. Wolves will kill all the available food (wildlife, stock, pets, children..) and control their own numbers by starvation and limiting the number of pups born. Natural balance, doncha know. Some plan, huh?

It's not about nature, folks any more than gun control is about guns. It's class warfare vs self determination. Call it what it is.

Redial
In need of decaf..

We've tried working legally. We've suffered quiet desperation awaiting the time for the wolves to prove what we already knew, but the government wouldn't admit. It's now time for civil disobedience.

When you shoot them, especially the collered ones, gut shoot them. That way they travel a ways before dying and it is tougher to pin point the location where they were shot.

LeanWolf: Yes I was talking about that area that butts up against Idaho AS being not yet decimated by the Wolves. There are wolves in that portion of the Beaverhead but they are mostly singles and pairs so far. The closest Wolf I have seen to that area was 6 miles east of Dell, Montana. Two years ago while Hunting Coyotes in the Medicine Lodge Valley (on the Idaho border) I followed two sets of Wolf tracks for a long ways but never did see them. I attended the local monthly sportsmans meeting last year here in Dillon in about April. The actual Warden that flies the SW corner of Montana in a helicopter and takes the Elk population figures for the region said that the 10 SW Montana areas he counts wintering Elk in are all at new record levels. With the exception of the area west of Lima, Montana. He said that particular area was so barren of snowpack that the Elk in fact were not on their normal winter range. The Warden said he was sure Elk in that area are also at record levels as they had been the year befoe. Numbers counted though were just lower last year. By the way that Warden flies his areas twice each winter/spring - once when the Bull Elk still have their horns so he can gather age class info and then again he flies the areas for new born calf numbers. The state has done this for - as I recall 18 to 20 years now. Anyway again there almost certainly will be no winter die off of Elk this year. My lawn is turning green for petes sake! It is 33 degrees now at 9:30 at night! It rained here today and yesterday at 5,600 feet elevation in late January??? Anyway yes that is the area I would recommend from Bannock Pass to Monida Pass for you. I had a report from an acquaintance that the Elk were doing real well in the area around Kilgore (north of), Idaho. My frend who lives in Brookings, Oregon killed a 6X6 there in the archery season. I have only Hunted Idaho for Elk in the Salmon, River country and that takes boats or Mules. Good luck!
Shumba: The only outfitter I know here in SW Montana personally was just last election - elected county Sheriff. I will check and see if he is going to be guiding this coming year or not. He has been an Elk outfitter for the last 15 yeas or so and he is a very trustworthy and conscientious person. I will get back to you on him. The general nonresident Big Game tag is a certain draw EVERY OTHER YEAR. You earn a preference point for not being drawn one year and the next year is automatic so far. I have a friend from Minnesota that has been drawn 3 years in a row! So there is a chance you will be drawn without the preference point. The guides have a certain number of tags that they have for clients I am not certain how it works but if you use a guide then you are just about guaranteed a tag. I will try and find that out for you for sure.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Many thanks, Varmit Guy. My two hunting buddies and I, will definitely do some scouting trips over there, later this year. We set up a tent camp and hunt from there.

Some of our Units along that area between Bannock Pass and Monida Pass are Controlled for bull elk, so we'd have to put in for the lottery drawing. We put in for Controlled tags every year anyway, so might get drawn.

Best of luck to you on your hunting trips this Fall!

L.W.

VarmintGuy

I hunted the area west of Lima last year too. Spectacular area but VERY popular. I'd recommend waiting until at least a week after opening day.

Geez, I've never seen so many hunters in one place. Or ATVs!

RMiller, we agree completely. Unfortunately, there will never be a wolf season here. Ever. It runs exactly counter to the goals of the greenies. I'm sure in Alaska you encounter the same "out-of-stater" mindset that believes the whole state is a big petting zoo or park. The question really is, where do we go from here? That we have almost no options is, I believe what generates the anger and frustration depicted above. Be glad you have some means available to you.

Cheers

Redial

I would think eliminating the wolves would be a better idea than eliminating those who shove them down our throats. Maybe. Which would you rather see gone?

Hello;
Those wolves originally came from Alberta. How about sending our Natural Resources Dept. as they call themselves nowadays, a thank you card.
Griz

I find this thread quite interesting. I left Montana in 1996 and sort of lost track of the whole wolf in the Yellowstone Basin Saga. Prior to the reintroduction, it seemed like everyone in Chicago, New York and Los Angeles thought that this was a great idea. The states of Montan, Idaho and Wyoming got this whole thing shoved down their throat (or to be more graphic another orifice comes to mind) Everyone that lived within 400 miles of the proposed reintroduction area thought the idea sucked. I saw more than one rancher in my area wearing a ball cap that showed a wolf in the crosshairs of a scope with the caption that read S.S.S. that stood for shoot shovel and shut up. they had one too many S. in there. Waksupi is right, shoot leave as little evidence as possible and never break. Normally I consider myself a law abiding citizen, but sometimes the government goes too far.

I remember hearing they found some of the collared wolves from montana in British columbia.

Theres nothing against shooting them here though. Some regions have no closed season below certain elevations as well.

They are on the rise here as well though. Not many are interested in shooting coyotes or going out looking for wolves.

Cougars are pretty big though. Lots of guys go chasing them around.

mark

I used to live in N.E. Montana.Use to snare lots of coyotes in the winter that were following the Elk herds in the Missouri Breaks.Had one wolf come through my trap/snare line.My buddy and I saw him out in the sage flats after Antelope.Never saw his tracks or him again.

OK, tomorrow the 30th at 3 p.m. the Fish Wildlife and Parks Committee will hear testimony on HB 262 and HB 283, which would reclassify wolves as predators after Jan 1, 2004 even if there're blocking lawsuits pending at that time.

Here's a list of the committee members:

http://www.leg.state.mt.us/css/committees/standing/Membership.asp?CommitteeID=324

There are many good guys on this committee and several academic greenies. The Chair, Joe Balyeat is one of our staunchest defenders. Keep it civil.

Pull up the URL and send a flurry of emails supporting those two bills, please. Remember - the world is run by those who show up. We need your help.

Thanks!

Redial