For you?

I take it out of the case, set it up at the bench, and if the first shot strikes dead center and about 3" high, nothing else matters. Group size means nothing if the cold rifle puts the first shot in the same place every time. That's my opinion.

1st shot is the most important, but I like a 3 shot group of 1" or less, if it's a close range gun, as long as it's under 2" at a 100yds.

animal falls down dead

actually I am satisfied with consistent 3" groups, sufficient to nail a heart or lung.

[This message has been edited by rockhead (edited 04-07-2002).]

I do love an accurate rifle and always want my rifles 30cal and under to shoot MOA or smaller 3 to 5 shot groups (5 is better, especialy in a varmint rig) mainly because I enjoy range time and tight groups but will have to agree that when it comes to hunting that second and third shot is most often used by those with less ability than there rifles.

Good comments!

My goal is five shots in a nice round group of an inch or so at 100 yards for any sort of big game hunting, and at all ranges. More accuracy than that is not useful under hunting conditions. For a cape buffalo rifle, you can get by with bigger groups than that!

To be honest, "benchrest accuracy" has become such a confused icon these days (and an overrated one) that I'm getting a little sick of hearing guys whine about big game rifles that "only" shoot one-inch groups instead of half-inch groups. I think it's time to get real.......

A consistent, unchanging point-of-impact and perfect feeding is more important than tiny groups!

AD

[This message has been edited by allen day (edited 04-07-2002).]

Boy Wapi-T hit the nail right on the head with that first round. After I do my load work and sight in work with my Contenders I do not bother with groups again. If the first and only bullet doesn't get it done then I've failed in all that went before that point. I KNOW that when I squeeze that round off it will hit right where that scope is looking. Nuff said.

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Handgun Hunter
LOVE THOSE .41s'

Biggame hunting rifles all I care about is a 3 shot group, varmit rifles a 5 shot group, my match rifles must be able to fire a 20 shot group under 1".

the shape of the group is more important. I want a clover leaf or round group...All my guns shoot an inch because I just set that as my goal..thats 2 shots so probably on some thats a 1.5" 5 shot group.. Some of mine will shoot 3/4" 5 shot groups or less and thats on an average of 5 groups..

All this is not necessary as a 3" at 100 yd. group will take care of 99% of our hunting situations..

On a DGR I want it to shoot 1" at 50 yds with iron sights, I require that..Lots of folks talk about "minute of Buffalo" or
" minute of grapefruit" on DGR rifles, not this kid, I take exception with Mr. boddington on these statements..I want
" minute of Buffalo eye" at 50 yards, least he eat me...

Now, this is not a slander at Mr. Boddington, (it was said in jest) a person whom I have great respect for and appreciate his writings.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

For me, what Wapi-T, and Ray say is fine.

Moose and bears are large enough not to concern myself with "extra" accuracy. My main concern in a rifle is for it to provide nearly the same POI from three shots out of a cold barrel, without having to spend too much time aiming through the scope. If I aim fast enough and fire three fast shots that print somewhere around 2" at 100 yards, the rifle is accurate for bear hunting ranges, and also for moose hunting ranges.

Yes, sometimes I take my time to carefully aim at the range to check how accurate the gun can be, but when out hunting I don't have too much time to aim and shoot. So far this has worked for me, and I haven't had to fire more than one time too often, so I guess my .338 is "accurate enough." Darn lucky rifle it is too, since it has already dropped about 7 moose.

[This message has been edited by Ray, Alaska (edited 04-07-2002).]

Johnny,

For all practical hunting purposes, a rifle that shoots 1-2 inch groups consistently is more good enough for me.

But, a rifle that cuts clover leaves every time I shoot it will give me a lot more confidence.

I have hunted with both types of rifle, and I can tell you, at least in my case, the more accurate rifle seems to add to the enormous pleasure of hunting, no question about this.

We were talking about this very subject yesterday with my good friend and detractor Walter.

We were in our workshop setting up a barrel for crowning, threading and chambering.

I like to set up the barrel so that it is perfectly centered in the lathe before working on it. And as anyone who has tried this knows how laborious this can be.

This might, or might not have any effect on how accurate the rifle shoots, but I think it is one of those variables that I can get rid off.

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saeed@ emirates.net.ae

www.accuratereloading.com

Staying sighted in is vital on hunting rifles as stated. I always check the first shot and it should be 2" high at 100 yds. Varmint rifles are 1" high and match rifles are sighted in during the match.

A woods rifle group of 1.5" is fine and a 30/06 class is expected to do 1" or less.

My position match rifle must do .375 MOA or better.

If I like a rifle then I work with it until it shoots. If I can't figure it out then I sell it.

My personal "goal"- 5 shots under 1 inch at 100 yards. Yes- the first shot is the one that counts- to see how well your rifle works-
shoot one shot at the same target- 3 or 5 days in a row. It the first one of the day that counts....

I like any of my rifles to hit in an area less than the area of my palm of my hand on the first shot in a standing position.I check it before I leave on a hunt and when I arrive at hunting area if I have travelled a fair distance .You never know what could have happened and its best to make sure.

No one asked the question: Where are we hunting? In my neck of the woods, you may get a 200yd shot down a powerline right of way. But to be realistic (and honest), under 100yds is the norm. (until I started hunting out west, the longest kill I made on a deer was 87 long steps) Thus, the old thutty-thutty that keeps 'em on a pie plate at 100yds will consistantly bring home the bacon.
Hunting deer and antelope out west, you have a different can of worms. The opportunity for a shot of 300yds is very possible. And some folks will poke and hope well beyond that. So a two incher is about the limit of what you want. That extrapolates to 6 inches at 300yds and when you factor in lack of or poor rest and nerves, you 6 inches has grown.
One thing, I will put my money everytime on the fellow thats shooting a two incher who practices shooting from the positions that one would encounter while hunting over the fellow with the one hole shooter who shoots only from the bench.

I've yet to hunt a rifle that was "too" accurate. My quest for that rifle continues.

Extreme/repeatable accuracy,is something that is very available today. That is a focal point of my thought processes,when crafting a new rifle.

So while I could live with a 1MOA rifle,for most all pursuits,I'd happily leave it at home and "upgrade" to a half minute(or better)rifle,when given the choice,assuming all else was equal.

A rifle that prints cloverleafs with boring regularity,warms my heart much more than one that doesn not retain that capability.

As mentioned prior,confidence is a very powerful thing...............

Of course the cartridge and bullet should be suited to the game and conditions.

A weak cartridge with no safety factor is not impressive.

An accurate rifle challenges my skills rather than giving me an easy explanation for a shot that's a little off.

If I know a rifle shoots .5 MOA then I know that my offhand results are my fault with no excuses. Keeps me practicing.

Don

That first shot thing is good but I like a three-shot group just to make sure that "good first shot" wasn't a fluke on my part. I did see a guy at the range one time(sighting in for deer season) make a good first-shot and then say, "Damn that's good enough" and just pick up and leave with that. He was shooting an '06 and that might have been enough rifle for him to disdain benchrest shooting.

1.5" at 100 yds witha circular spread to the group, and that is the same each time I fire it, under all weather, is ok by me. On Smaller rifles such as my 22-250 and 6.5x55, I need 3/4 " for the varmint hunting I do.

BR

If my rifle will not shoot into an inch, off to market it goes. I want triangle groups out of a cold barrel.

As long as the gun shoots better'n me from a field position, it's fine with me. JMO, Dutch.

I like it to shoot 3 - 5 rounds within a 3 inch circle at 200 yards from a cold barrel.

2" is fine for my close in guns, I want 1" for the long range, and would prefer better.
Yes that first shot better go where it's pointed.

MOA is a wonderful thing, but it is certainly not necessary. As a youth, I carried an old, beaten, war torn SMLE. The headspace was awful, and reloading a case twice was almost unheard of. It must have had its share of cordite rounds through it, and shot an unspeakable group of 10 moa, on a good day. It was a good thing the rabbits, coyotes, deer, and other assorted game I shot didn't know that, or they would have been ashamed to have been shot with it. Someone finally told me that I couldn't kill anything with that old rifle, as they were eating a deer steak I had cooked, and I traded it off. I was so glad they enlightened me of the ignorance of my youth.
The ranges were always kept short, more a by-product of old iron sights and brushy country than anything else, so usually shots were taken within 50 yards. I had all the confidence in the world that what I shot at would died.
I also didn't subscribe to any gun magazines at that time, I spent my money on gas, powder, and bullets, so I hadn't read anywhere that my old rifle wouldn't kill unless it shot micro-moa groups. I was so glad that I saw the ill of my ways.

Good luck and good shooting

For me 2" groups or less at 100 yards with a scoped rifle is the least acceptable. For a open sight rifle, as long as the front sight covers the group.

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From my cold, dead hands!
Thanks Chuck!