Posted on Thu, Dec. 14, 2006

Cat caught on camera confirmed as cougar

Associated Press

CHILLICOTHE, Mo. - Mountain lions appear to be gaining ground in Missouri.

The Missouri Mountain Lion Response Team this week confirmed the ninth and 10th of the big cats to be verified in the state since 1994.

"It'll make you think about those noises in the woods that everyone assumes are just rabbits," said Joe Neis of Chillicothe, who set up a digital camera that photographed a cougar in Livingston County on Dec. 7.

Neis, 28, was looking for deer when he placed a camera on a tree close to a deer trail in a wooded ravine near Chillicothe, which is about 90 miles northeast of Kansas City. The camera takes photos when a motion sensor is tripped.

He found a mountain lion, also known as a cougar, looking back at him on his computer screen when he downloaded the images.

"It was a shock to see it on the screen," Neis said. "I didn't hardly believe it. I was jumping up and down."

The Mountain Lion Response Team visited the site on Monday and confirmed the photo.

"No doubt about it, it's a mountain lion," said Dave Hamilton, a biologist for the Missouri Department of Conservation.

Most native Missouri mountain lions were wiped out by hunting and habitat loss by the late 1800s. One killed in 1927 was the last confirmed until an Ozark case in 1999.

Kansas has only one recent confirmation. Tests showed that droppings found in Lawrence in 2003 were from a mountain lion.

Hamilton said reports are often received but rarely confirmed. He has investigated seven reports this week.

He said the cat Neis had images of weighed about 120 pounds and is between 18 months and 3 years old.

In another case, a hunter in Shannon County in southeast Missouri wounded a deer Nov. 18. The next day he found the deer partly eaten and covered with leaves and brush.

Wildlife forensic experts concluded that a mountain lion had killed the deer, Hamilton said.

It's likely both cats are young males that have detached from established populations to the west.


Information from: The Kansas City Star, http://www.kcstar.com

Ive been told by a decent source that the pennsylvania game comission has released some of those cats in pa to wipe out the deer population, and supposedly there's a guy willing to pay $10,000 for the thing dead or alive, has anyone else heard anything like that

quote:

Originally posted by bill23:
Ive been told by a decent source that the pennsylvania game comission has released some of those cats in pa to wipe out the deer population,

quote:

Ive been told by a decent source that the pennsylvania game comission has released some of those cats in pa to wipe out the deer population, and supposedly there's a guy willing to pay $10,000 for the thing dead or alive, has anyone else heard anything like that

I highly doubt any Game and Fish department would attempt a stupid, idiotic, plan like that. The one in Nebraska has been accused of the same thing. It is a natural process for some wildlife to move, or migrate into new territory. Might be a sign of good G&F stewardship. A G&F dept. would make every attempt to control the population with hunting. I would be more inclined to believe that some flatlander from iowa or dipshit USF&W tree hugging lier might do or consider it. But either way I doubt it!

I think it is great that one of the big cats decided to move to Missouri, but he's going to be mighty lonely unless some lady cat moved with him. Every once in a great while there are reports of an elk being shot during deer season in Missouri, which makes a lot of jaws drop. The logical assumption here is that the elk came down from South Dakota for some reason, though long ago, elk used to live all over Missouri and right here in Kansas before they were wiped out. As to the statement about cats being turned into the wilds in Penn., I agree with Kudu 56, that it is a bunch of bulk.

We gotta kill all those pesky predators!

Urban legend in NY also about the DEC releasing mountain lions. Also, recently heard they are releasing wolves. NO WAY!!! in todays world, no govt employee could keep their mouth shut about this. I have heard high level DEC people speak on this, and they usually chuckle. Although there is no season in NY for either animal, they unofficially say they would be more than happy to have someone shoot one, who actually sees it. Conservation officers have gone after declawed, house broken big cats that people dump someplace because they finally realize they dont fit in their apartments, other than that thought, no such thing.

quote:

Originally posted by 7x57mm:
...though long ago, elk used to live all over Missouri and right here in Kansas before they were wiped out.

Do you mean, "almost" wiped out? Kansas still has a resident hunting season don't they? I've hunted Kansas a few times and read in the regulations about their resident only elk hunts.

quote:

Originally posted by bill23:
Ive been told by a decent source that the pennsylvania game comission has released some of those cats in pa to wipe out the deer population, and supposedly there's a guy willing to pay $10,000 for the thing dead or alive, has anyone else heard anything like that

PA has long had a small population of cougars, probably not migrated in from elsewhere as there'd be cats in between here and wherever they allegedly migrated from.

More than many other eastern states PA has some inaccessable country and the cats are by nature secretive and elusive....

I've seen a game-cam photo of a female with a cub in the pic and what appears to be the tail of a second cub at the edge of the frame.

They were taking bait left at the camera that was placed to take 'yote or bobcat pics.

You leave a camera out there and you never know what you might get a pic of

If someone WERE to intentionally release cougars
there is no way that someone wouldn't talk about it...

Remember there is a pair of great flaws common to most conspiracy theories... that any such theory requires competence (rare itself)
and secrecy or operational-security.

the second is equally unlikely, he we live in a country where the president can't get a blowjob without EVERYONE finding out about it... and he's got the US Secret service to help him keep private matters private....

To kudu: Iowa is a good place. Born and raised there, and proud of it.

I have heard stories of "panter" cats in SW Missouri since I was very young. We always figured it was a way to scare us into staying at home after dark. I have also heard stories of Black Bear. I once saw what I think was a bear but it was dark and he was stepping out pretty good.

I wouldn't doubt that there has been a remnant population of both forever. While the population of humans is not near as sparse as it is in the west we do have lots of country here that is uninhabited. Most of it is heavy timber and brush and not seen much.

I asked a game and fish guy in Colorado why the lion population was doing so well there and he said that with the decline of trapping there are more raccoons. Raccoons he said were a Mountain Lions favorite treat and the most common food. If this is true I can see why Missouri is now seeing my theoretical remnant population. We used to have a coon hunter on every corner now it is more of an oddity to see a coon dog that hunts more than a couple of nights a year.

Hikerbum,
I can confirm I have seen lion tracks in WNY in January 1994. I followed tracks for 1 1/2 miles in snow. I have hunted out west, and BC, and this was no house cat, bobcat, or any other kind of cat.
I have a relative who works for an unnamed wildlife agency who has confirmed to me their knowledge of this also.
You can contact me for some additional minimal info.
Dano36

Doc:I just got back on this thread and saw your post. No, I mean wiped out. Those elk, I'm told, were re-introduced into the state just like the elk in Oklahoma, Kentucky, Arkansas and other places. Minn. had native elk, had them wiped out and reintroduced as well. Tom P

I grew up about 10 miles from where this cat was spotted. Probably quail hunted the field the camera was located in. Missouri was (it's been 35 years since I've lived there) the small game capital of the world with all the rabbits, squirels, quail, ducks, geese, deer,etc. Having big cats in the area seems logical to me because of the small game as available food. There are some top notch hound hunters in Missouri and if they want to get rid of the cats, I'm sure some of those guys could make it happen. Personally I like the idea of big cats in that area.

Well pegleg....you go tell that to the 2 little girls who live 3/4 mi North of me who's mare was attacked by lions this summer.....in their barnyard and nearly killed. The poor thing was at Doc Montgomery's clinic in Brookfield for 2 weeks getting stiched up and medicated.

You haven't lived around here in 35 years so please butt out. I live here and have seen what these cats do and it is awful. Pumas and people don't mix period. Oh and please PM me with all the critter hunters with dogs that will eliminate the evil things. The price of fur has gone down to where nobody hunts and traps up here anymore.....and the few trappers we have don't have any experience with these cats or the equipment to trap them.

As more and more folks start putting out trail cams, we're goin to see alot more of these things. 3 Years ago, I had a population of nearly 200 Turkeys on my farm and between the bobcats and cougars, I now have about 20. The Missouri Dept of Conservation needs to put a $10,000 bounty on them and wipe them out again. Tense in Linn County, Missouri (15 miles from the official trail cam.....3/4 miles from attack, 300 yards from tracks 3 weeks ago). Regards, Rick.

Sakorick...you're talking out your ass.

quote:

I live here and have seen what these cats do and it is awful.

Based on what? Have you ever observed a lion in the wild? Do you even know what a track looks like? Turkeys dissappear, so you automatically assume that it must have been "bobcats or lions"? That is called ignorance. Why not tell us all your experience with grizzly bears in MO while you're at it.

MG

quote:

Originally posted by bill23:
Ive been told by a decent source that the pennsylvania game comission has released some of those cats in pa to wipe out the deer population.

Don't they eat mice and rabbits like wolves?

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:
the second is equally unlikely, he we live in a country where the president can't get a blowjob without EVERYONE finding out about it... and he's got the US Secret service to help him keep private matters private....

Had to give up cigars after that hole mess. No pun intended.

sakorick- Sorry to here about the little girls mare. First off mountain lions don't travel in packs or prides, so I don't think "lions" attacked the mare. Maybe a lion but I doubt that there was more than one. If you don't like the idea of lions in the area then stay inside. I had a lion stalk me during a deer hunt in the Okanogan and I must admit it was one of the most exciting hunts of my life. When he figure out that I wasn't the meal he was after he slipped away. Stuff like that makes me feel alive! The element of danger has always done this to me. I like the idea that it isn't always a free ride. Put Ike Taul up in Trenton on those lions and he'll show you what one looks like------ dead! I am sorry about the girls mare.

I've got a suggestion, and I'm not being satirical when I mention it. Lets round up some of these mountain lions and wolves, then let them loose in every city park surrounded by a population of one million or more. Central Park in NYC would be first, then Boston, Los Angeles, San Francisco, etc. We'll thin out a population problem, by nature's means, during the nights!

For Pegleg...right on....there was just one lion.

For Madgoat. There are no Griz in Missouri. Yes, I know what the track looks like. Yes, I grew up in Colorado back in the 50's and 60's. I have 2 deer hides with canine holes and pictures of the mare. The Canines were 2 5/8 inches and 2 9/16 inches apart. The first deer, a Spike Buck, was disemboweled heart and liver and front shoulder consumed then dragged over 50 yards by one set of Cougar tracks....all documented by many 35mm photos. My neighbor Kenney saw the Cat dragging the dead deer....the cat ran off when he saw Kenney's 4 wheeler. The Missouri Conservation agent arrived on scene after the snow melted and declared that dogs had killed the deer.....that was 3 years ago.

Finally, Madgoat, the Conservation department and the Vet confirmed the attack on the mare was a lion attack off the record of course. You sir, owe me an apology. And, OBTW way, what are your credentials for being a cat expert? Unless you spend most of your time afield at night, I would guess ....not much, as there are very few people who know much of anything about these mysterious animals. What we do know is that they are deer hunters and rarely miss a meal and they have been known to kill a deer, eat some, cover it with leaves and never come back to finish consuming the animal....especially where pickings are easy!

As for the bobcats, they are finally being controled. The Conservation Department opened the season on them 2 1/2 years ago. In my square, 4 have been shot by deer hunters and 3 have been trapped since Nov 05. That is a heap of cats in a little more than a square mile. This fall, my Quail count was up and we're seeing more Turkey. Hope the pic come thru of the 29 pound male trapped on my farm 11 months ago....pic of a pic.

I repeat, cats and people don't mix.....not in a populated rural community that derives much of it's economy from sportsmen from the cities. Regards, Rick.

quote:

Originally posted by Pegleg:
sakorick- Sorry to here about the little girls mare. First off mountain lions don't travel in packs or prides, so I don't think "lions" attacked the mare. Maybe a lion but I doubt that there was more than one. If you don't like the idea of lions in the area then stay inside. I had a lion stalk me during a deer hunt in the Okanogan and I must admit it was one of the most exciting hunts of my life. When he figure out that I wasn't the meal he was after he slipped away. Stuff like that makes me feel alive! The element of danger has always done this to me. I like the idea that it isn't always a free ride. Put Ike Taul up in Trenton on those lions and he'll show you what one looks like------ dead! I am sorry about the girls mare.

Ditto.

I work with Mt. Lions in NE Washington, they certainly do eat things we may rather wish they didn't. But I also am glad they are doing well (at least in my study area) I have hunted NE Washington since the late 70's, lots of cougars, lots of deer.

Managing their numbers to a level which makes the greatest (not all) of the peole affected in the area placid seems to be the best solution. Extirpation and bounties seem to make a few uninformed locals happy but is not really a viable option as most of the public is informed enough to make decisions which make more sense.

I wish Missouri the best of luck in managing the cats, they have a tough row to hoe.


IV

quote:

The Canines were 2 5/8 inches and 2 9/16 inches apart. The first deer, a Spike Buck, was disemboweled heart and liver and front shoulder consumed then dragged over 50 yards by one set of Cougar tracks....all documented by many 35mm photos

Wow, I'm looking at a lion skull right now and his canines are only 1 3/4" apart, and he was a good cat. This one you're talking about must be huge in proportion!! Or are you measuring the bite? There is a big difference, and I still think you're full of shit.

quote:

live here and have seen what these cats do and it is awful.

Based upon what? Things that other ignorant folks have told you? You're clueless dude.
I've lived in lion country my whole life, and my job takes me into the woods on a daily basis. I see cat kills occasionally, and their tracks regularly. Do I think that cats and people don't mix? Heck no. Do I look over my shoulder when I'm in the woods and fear for my safety? Not at all. Do I think that maybe one time you saw something that looked like a cat track and freaked out...you bet.

I would like to see these photos you have of the tracks and the lion. I'm not saying that the mare "could or could not have been killed by a lion", but the rest of your post was total bullshit.

MG

I just talked to Cleo who has the deer pelts with the canine holes in them. I mis-spoke....they are 1 9/16 and 1 5/8 inches from center hole to center hole. Madgoat...you can spew your ignorance and call me all the names you want. It matters not a wit to me as you have called me a liar and you are now on my ignore list. You can go your way and I'll go mine.

For all the others interested in this topic, the easiest way to identify a Cougar track is by looking closely at the palm of the print.... a rounded triangle. Dogs have a more pointed triangle with two triangular lobes while cats have 3 rounded lobes at the base of the triangle.

There have been eyewitness reports of Bobcats jumping on the backs of small deer (fawns) in Missouri...one instance was caught on video! It is probably unlikely that a Bobcat could do much damage to a deer sized animal, however it appears that they try. Wild dogs used to be the biggest problem around here as they run in packs while hunting. We have eradicated the dog problem.

Cougars are very elusive and can hide back in these woods for months...I'm afraid we're stuck with them for now. I'll have my trail cam hooked up soon amd hopefully can get some pictures. Regards, Rick.

quote:

For all the others interested in this topic, the easiest way to identify a Cougar track is by looking closely at the palm of the print.... a rounded triangle. Dogs have a more pointed triangle with two triangular lobes while cats have 3 rounded lobes at the base of the triangle.

Actually, the easiest way to identify a lion vs dog track is by the claw marks. Your German shepherd will leave claw marks when he puts his foot down, a lion, bobcat or housecat for that matter won't.

quote:

It is probably unlikely that a Bobcat could do much damage to a deer sized animal, however it appears that they try.

??? Studies have shown that in some places 60% of an adult bobcat's diet is deer.

quote:

Cougars are very elusive and can hide back in these woods for months...

Yea, they are writing their manifesto's and preparing pipe bombs. Get a clue....where are these pictures rick?

MG

Hello all....you too MG. Here are pictures of kill site 2 taken last summer. They are posted on ozbow by kennym ( my neighbor).
http://www.ozbow.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=30772&highlight=#30772

I'll try to round up pic of the first deer's hide. Cleo has a bunch of them and I think he still has the hide. The kill site in the pictures is 3/4 mile from my house. You will notice the huge blood trail left when the cat drug the remains off. This was a small yearling buck 1 year old and weighed around 100 pounds estimated from what was left. Kenny saw the cat, however, he caught just a fleeting glimpse...of course the remains were still warm. This was at 7 in the morning.

We set up a trail cam at the site, however, the cat did not come back to the site for 1 week so we gave up.

More on the mare....who made a full recovery by the way. She was attacked from the left side quartering. The worst damage was to the right shoulder where the cat ripped a very large chunk of skin and did moderate tissue damage. There were canine marks on the face and neck. I wished I had taken pictures. The vet confirmed a lion attack and it was reported to the Dept of Conservation. They never contacted the owners.

That's all I know. I am not a Cougar expert nor do I claim to be. I have seen the evidence and finally we got one on trail cam south of Chula some 15 miles West of here....possibly the same animal but unproven. The only time you will see claw prints in the snow is if the cat loses traction and slips. I just had a new pond built on the back 80 and it has about 4 feet of water in it. It snowed just before Christmas and a lion walked down the bank in the snow for a drink I suppose. It slipped a number of times leaving the sheath and claw clearly visible. I'm going to take pictures of every bit of evidence I come across from now on. Regards, Rick.

Sakorick, From the looks of the bite marks on that deer, I'd say that was a cougar. A couple of years ago, a cougar was hit and killed on HYW 54 between Kingdom City and Jeff. City. the Conservation Dep't took the carcass and it was well documented. So they are definately out there. Let us know if your trail cam catches one.

quote:

You haven't lived around here in 35 years so please butt out. I live here and have seen what these cats do and it is awful. Pumas and people don't mix period.

This based upon one deer? It appeared as if the deer possibly could have been killed by a lion, and in no way do I doubt that lions live in Missouri, but stating fodder like this is just ignorant.

Dig up pictures of this mare if you have them.

MG

Hello MG. You are the idiot not me. There is a trail cam posted on this thread of a lion <15 miles from my house. I have posted clear emperical evidence of a lion attack. I have posted my best guess as to what's going on around here bases on 3 confirmed lion attacks. You have called my a liar and a said everything I posted is "bullshit". Just what in the world is wrong with you. We have a cat on trail cam, prima facia evidence of 2 deer kills, a reported attack by a real Vet who graduated from the U of Missouri by the way, not a Wyoming grade school, numerous unconfirmed sightings and you want more pictures. I suggest, that you are the one full of "bullshit" and more than likely a fifteen year old forum freek with nothing better to do than call others full of "bullshit". Since I won't communicate with you anymore....why not email Kennym on the ozbow forum? Then you can tell him he's full of "bullshit" too. It's a shame that you have taken over a very imformative thread and turned it into your own personal vendetta. You can spew all you want cause it's a free country....I will continue to report the facts as they occur.

To the others reading this diatribe...I apologise...especially to pegleg who hasn't lived around these parts for 35 years. By the way, pegleg the trailcam that confirmed the lion was just a mile NW of where Hwy B turns into a gravel road in Livingston County, or about 5 miles SE of Chula. My farm is just North of Linneus on Hwy 5. Chilicothe is booming and Brookfield is dying a slow death. We still have a Santa fe/Burlington Northern Depo but the main line to Chicago runs from Marcelene thru the NE part of Linn County and gone. Please PM me and I'll post you on the Linn/Livingston happenings. Regards, Rick.

Hey Sako, I have no doubt that lions live in Missouri. You won't find that in any of my posts (then again, you probably didn't read them) I've suggested otherwise. I'm sure in the past few years, a couple of cats probably found their way south and wander around that state. Heck, there are some collared cats from the Black Hills that have made their way to Oklahoma.

But do you "live" in "lion country"? Hell no. Do I think that based upon your very limited exposure to mountain lions you have any idea what they are really all about? Nope. I think you've read one too many fairy tales with the big bad cat, and are scared shitless. A horse gets tore up and you freak out...cat's and people don't mix!!! OH MY!! That is what I'm calling bullshit on. You've got this attitude of "been there, done that" and you don't even have any idea where "there" is.

MG

Pegleg
Too bad you haven't been in mo. in a while. The small game capitol has changed somewhat. Quail are near nonexistent, rabbits not to thick either, too many coyotes and bobcats. Turkeys thick as hell, same with geese which I wouldn't give a nickel to hunt a lifetime. No one has the answer to the decline of the great quail hunting I enjoyed as a young man, there's three or four coveys on every 400 acres, where there used to be that many on every 80 in my area.

quote:

Originally posted by jstevens:
Pegleg
Quail are near nonexistent..... No one has the answer to the decline of the great quail hunting I enjoyed as a young man, there's three or four coveys on every 400 acres, where there used to be that many on every 80 in my area.

Go for a walk today. The weather is nice! Count how many hawks you see.

Hello ELC. Although I no absouletly nothing about Cougars, I do know quite abit about our friend the Bobwhite Quail. I have been working on Quail management on my farm for the past 7 years with very good results. My farm is 173 acres in NC Missouri and had a grand total of one covey on it in 1995. 118 acres is in CRP and 19 acres in row crops with the rest in Timbered ditches and 5 ponds.

The first problem was fescue...with the help of the conservation department, I burned and used roundup then planted some 60 acres into warm season grass and forb/wildflower mix. I then constructed food plots next to the timber with buffer strips. I am working on a fence line restoration project now which is eliminating the Pin Oaks, Locust and Hedge trees that had grown to 50 feet or more. I am replacing the trees with blackberries, plums and any other shrub I can get my hands on. Finally, I built some 10 covey headquarters areas next to the ditches using downed timber the Tornado left 3 years ago.

The results are very encouraging as I now have at least 6 covies and looking for more. I closed all Quail hunting on the place six years ago and plan to reopen hunting next year.

I have watched nests like a mother hen and can say this about predators. I have never seen a Red Tail or any other broad wing Hawk attack a Quail or nest. Cooper's hawks and the Harriers take their toll....but not that worrysome. The main culprits are IMHO and in order...house cats, Racoon, Skunks, Possums and Black Snakes. I have never seen evidence of our friends the Bobcat or the Fox molesting any nesting sites. I have seen several Turkey carcass in the CRP, however, the killer is unknown. Whatever is getting the adult turkey must be very very fast and stealthy....my best guess is the Bobcat but have no proof. I also suspect pochers as we have a 130 acre hardwood tract smack dab in the middle of the square full of mature White Oak and Hickory with easy access from the city lake. The owners live in STL and they are only around during the deer season for a few days.

In summary, cool season grasses are bad and warm season grasses are good. Buffer strips planted in Lespedeza are good....food plots out in the middle of a field help the deer but do nothing for the Quail. The best food plot for Quail is a combination of milo and tall sorgum. The bonus of my effort is a healthy rabbit population....they keep the birds of prey happy and that is a good thing. I also have 2 neighbors that have taken notice and are making good progress. These are my observations and nothing more. Regards, Rick.

Fescue is not the best will agree. However it has been the predominate grass in MO for 50 years. I can remember quail in good numbers only 15 years ago.

I have no evidence to back me up but it seems like the decline started around the same time CRP did? How would that be. My theory is Mono culture. Most cow pastures are grazed into the ground or let grow for hay then mowed off to the ground. Most CRP I have seen is so thick it is worthless as habitat for anything other than field mice. Yes I know that there are people like you that are working to make their CRP good habitat but a vast majority is going to waste.

I am surprised that you haven't seen a hawk hit a quail. I have been on some set and take quail hunts where you had to race the hawks to the quail.

I have been involved in a study with grazing native grass in order to improve upland bird habitat for the last 7 years. It is quite interesting to see the results. PM me if you are interested and we can talk.

There's a difference between "set & take" birds vs wild ones... I've seen the same thing, where pheasants are released and just sit there and watch the hawks come down on them. They have no idea that they are supposed to hide from them, due to their shelterd life in a flight pen.

I live in the Quad Cities (eastern IA) and grew up in eastern Nebraska (40 miles north of Omaha). There are cougars in both places. Here in Bettendorf, there was a deer carcas found in a tree in a local park. That isn't a place a cougar should be.

My father also got a bad scare a year ago. His Black Lab was going nuts and trying to hide in the pig barn, and the next day there were tracks all over of a big feline. Bigger than a bobcat, and some trail drags. It also drug a hog carcass down to the creek.

The cats are out there, but so far it seems they have some fear of people. When they loose that (as has happened in California), things will get ugly.

I doubt as well that the red tailed hawks catch many, but have certainly seen the smaller ones. Bobcats don't help, but our population was in decline way before there were any. There is tons of cover and tons of food, but no quail. I will agree that CRP is pretty much a negative for hunting, there were lots of quail when there was more corn and bean ground planted with brushy draws and fence rows around them. As a kid, my dad and three of us boys shot a case of shell a season at quail, that is a lot of birds, and we sure had some good dogs with all that hunting. Now it just depresses me to go quail hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by jstevens: Bobcats don't help, but our population was in decline way before there were any. There is tons of cover and tons of food, but no quail. I will agree that CRP is pretty much a negative for hunting, there were lots of quail when there was more corn and bean ground planted with brushy draws and fence rows around them.

And therein lies the crux of the problem. All the brushy fence rows are gone. Just take a look around Gallatin and notice how many fence rows have grown up 35 year old trees. I have the same problem but I'm "tearing down that wall". Regards, Rick.