Are the Zeiss 10X40 Classic's a real bargin at the prices that they are going for, around $700? I am looking for a good pair of binoculars in the 8 or 10 X 40-42 range. I have looked at Leica, Pentax, Kahels, Swarovski(SLC and EL), and Zeiss Victorys. I want to look at Nikon Venture XLs, when I can find a pair. What do you think? TTS

Having some facilities as a gun writer, I tend to change optics a lot, always striving for the latest and/or best. After an extensive field test in Austria and Sweden, I sold my Swarovski SLC to buy the new EL. IMHO, they're probably/arguably the best bino's available for the time being (NB.: this may change but, no doubt, I will then be able to report on the successor).

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Andr�

TTS,
I never used the 10X40, but I owned 8X30s classic, then Safaris, and recently went for the Sw 8,5X42.
Two of my buddies have been using their 10X40 for a while now, and they are really pleased with them. If you like the 10 power, the zeiss are a must...
olivier

I think the Zeiss are a real bargain. I have the 8X30 Leica and I am real happy with them. I like them for a general purpose binocular...locating game etc. However I have been thinking about the Zeiss 10X40 because of the price and the 10 power. For trophy hunting I think these would be nice.

Zeis 10x40's are great.I've used them from heavy bush to open country here and in Africa.They have never let me down and are more than worth the price I paid for them.
Richard
LET US PREY!

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rlda07052

Which ever you choose, Zeiss , Leica or Swarovski you can't really go wrong. I would think about andre's comments though for sure.

I have had Zeiss and Swaro's and one thing for sure; they absolutely ruin you for lesser optics. When you look through the best, thats what you crave from then on.

I too am lusting oover a new set of 10x42's for this next years season.

FN

I have the Zeiss 10x40 Classics,they are the best for me. Nothing feels as good and they are light to boot. Of course they have stellar optics too. I have Leica also,but in their compact.

I'm contemplating buying another Zeiss 10x40 Classic,as a "spare" and to eventually give to my son. Their new introduction that replaces it,is garbage.

Zero doubt that the 10x40 Classics are currently a STEAL...................

I used a friend's Zeiss 10x40 Classics last year on a bear hunt and I've been ruined ever since. I lust after a pair. After comparing Swarovski, Leica, and the Zeiss, the only real difference seems to be the price. For the money, they are a real bargain! Grab them before they have another price increase- Sheister

I have used the ziess 10x40's for over ten years and am totally pleased with them.

Ziess are really good. Swarovski's are good and I think they are little better than Ziess. lieca are the best and there is a difference between them and Ziess and Swarovski. Either way you can't go wrong with any one of these three. I would not consider any other brand, but that is me. At $700.00 I would go for it.

Daryl

Like many others, I have been using the Zeiss 10X40 Classics for years. They are my constant companion and I have never had any complaints. I hunt with many who use Leica or Swarovski binoculars. After using theirs I have decided that once you reach this quality level of binocular there isn't enough difference between them to matter. With the current price of the 10X40 Classics you can't go wrong.

Steve

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Every man dies, but not every man really lives!!

I have had them all except the new Swarovski . So far the leica's are the best pair I have used. Rugged and perfect optics.

Considering the league we're playing in, don't expect revolutionary improvements in one brand compared to the others. Differences will be minute and probably subjective as well as they're all, at least excellent, so, handle them all and take what "lies" you best, you won't take chances anyway. What essentially turned me on with the new Swarovski EL was colour rendition (due no doubt to the new Swarobright coating that reflects 99.5% of the entire light spectrum width) and ergonomics (lightweight of the magnesium alloy body and handling comfort of the central opening)

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Andr�

I would like to suggest that the birding web sites are a good source of in depth, intelligent binocular reviews. The birding crowd have very high expectations, especially as to color fidelity, close focus (not very applicable for shooters) ergonomics, brightness, clarity, etc. Recently I notice that Nikon's high end binocular has won one or two very coveted binocular awards. One or two birding sites rate it as the best. As for me, the best glass I ever owned was the Leica 12 x 50. I thought it much better than the Swarovskis at the time ('bout three years ago). Recently I have read that the Swarovski EL is exceptional. One bird site that I read rated it number one or just a tad behind the Nikon, if I recall.

My .02 worth!!

Jordan

Jordan-How many birders have you seen exposing their binoculars to the kind of conditions that hunters do?The birders I know head indoors when the weather turns ugly while many hunters are still out in the extreme cold or rain.They are also not usually out at first and last light so they don't need the kind of light transmission that hunters do from optics.Hunters are probably the people who demand the most from optics and the european brands such as ziess,leica and swarovski have proven over the years to be the best performing optics available.

When I bought my Leica 8X42�s they blew away everything I had ever used, which so far has included Swarovski 7X42 SL, 7X30 SLC, 8X56 SL (great but WAY too huge), 7X42 Traditional, 10X50 SL, and Nikon 7X35E plus a few �lesser� names. I used to buy and play with these high end binoculars trying to find the �best�, but when I got the Leicas I just quit looking.

This past fall I was able to use a pair of the new Swarovski 10X42 EL�s. It would take an astute pair of eyes to prove that they were superior, but without a doubt they are optically the equal of the Leica�s. I know a hunting guide who has seen several pairs of Swarovski�s have trouble with jamming the twist in-out eyecups, but I can only give that info second hand.

Sorry I can�t offer any comments on the Zeiss binoculars, I�ve never owned a pair. While the optics are excellent, the ones I�ve considered were not up to Leica or Swarovski in user features. Take it easy, Zeiss fans, that�s just judging by personal criteria. Nor have I seen the new Nikon Venturer series, but they are getting excellent marks. My only problem with the Nikons I've owned or examined so far is that, like Zeiss, they are a bit lacking in some features which appeal to rough and tumble hunting work. Again, just MHO.

Anywho, if a fellow bought a pair of Leica Trinovids or a Swarovski EL then, based on my personal experience, he would have his hands on the finest optical equipment money can buy � today, at least.

Just FYI, I saw where Leica is coming out with a new "hybrid" pair that allows you to switch between 8 and 12 power (on the same set of binoculars). Seems great to use 8x for spotting game and flip them to 12x to see detail. It sounds like they'll be in the $1300-$1400 range - at that you could probably buy two of the Zeis, but then again you would have to lug two around to get the same benefits.

I've been lusting after a pair of Leicas for some time now and was not sure whether to get 8x or 10x - this new development should give me the best of both worlds (although I'm sure you'll likely want a steady rest for using the 12x). Again, just FYI.

You can never go wrong with a Zeiss. I have got one old ugly, toughly used 7x50 from the thirties, with I bought for $20 at an army surplus store. Despite the age it has brilliant optics and a very fine fix-focus. The only thing I dislike is the weight: about two pounds. They still have that fix-focus on the 7x50 and the 8x30 Safari. If I could afford a new one, I personally would buy a 8x30 Safari for use in the day. The old 7x50 would still do its job at dusk and dawn.

Best regards,

Fritz

TTS, One thing to consider is that the Ziess Classics are not waterproof. The Ziess Victory's are I believe. I had a pair of Ziess 8x30 fog. The factory repaired them at no cost but I avoid using them in the wet. Very good optics though, I took them to Africa with me, seem very rugged otherwise. T

Has any one tried the Kahles bios. I looked through a set at the store the other day and they looked pretty good to me. The price on the Kahles were in the $600 range.

The Zeiss Classics are EXCEPTIONAL at defeating moisture. They are the staple here in SE Alaska and I assure you there are few places that are wetter on a continuous basis.

I've zero doubt you had troubles,as you described. To wave a wand over the Zeiss Classic line,and pronounce them as being prone to fogging is contrary to my personal experience and those of guys I hunt with. We've 5 sets of Zeiss 10x40 Classics amongst us.

None have bobbled................

Big Stick, I just checked the new Cabelas catalog and the new Ziess, Leica, and Swarovski are all rated 100% waterproof but the Classic's are not. ? I used my Ziess for 4 months in AK on a daily basis (and it sure does know how to rain up there), but that was after they were factory serviced. I think maybe I got in trouble with them putting them under my raingear and water vapor got into them.On a major hunt in wet areas with no backup available I'll take my Swarovski's. T

I was commenting on a written warranty(I'll try to find mine),but rather actual field time.

Mine are in and out of raingear on a continous basis,like any other glass up here. I'd never heard of fogging problem related to that line of glass,let alone witnessed it...........

"In tropical climates binoculars should be kept dry and well aired to avoid fungus growth on the optics".

That is the sole mention of moisture I can find in my documentation,thus far............

http://www.zeiss.de/C1256AF70046CD9F

("All Zeiss binoculars (EXCLUDING THE SPECIALTY PRODUCTS LISTED BELOW) come with a Limited Lifetime Transferable Warranty:

We warrant this binocular to be free from defects in material and workmanship. In the event of a malfunction or defect, we will cover the cost of labor and materials for repair. This binocular is tested in accordance with German DIN 58 390 80 and ISO 9022 and is guaranteed not to fog or leak. Zeiss will repair this product, should it fog or leak, at no cost to the consumer, as long as this product shows no sign of abuse. We reserve the right the repair or replace the defective product subject to the following terms"

That states that fogging is warrantied........

[This message has been edited by Big Stick (edited 02-15-2002).]

Big Stick, I stand corrected. T

Stubblejumper:

Not to nit pick, but I think you missed my point. The inherent ruggedness or quality of a binocular (Nikon, Swarovski, Leica, whatever) is not affected one iota by the fact that its reviewer happens to be a birder. Whether the reviewer is a birder or sheep hunter can have no influence whatsoever on the actual, innate qualities of the binocular---whether we are talking
ruggedness, or waterproofness or whatever.

The value of the birder reviews is that these people tend to agonize over things like color fidelity, brightness, ergonomics, focusability, clarity, etc. and therefore, as to these qualities, they are an excellent source of side-by-side comparison reviews.

The fact that some birders happen to like the "name" glasses (Swarovski, Leica and some especially Nikon's new high end glass) does not magically make those glasses less rugged than if they were reviewed by Soldier of Fortune nor does it make them less rugged than we already know them to be.

Sincerelyh

Jordan

P.S. For what it is worth, in the past I have criticized Swarovski on this site for clearly expressing its affinity for the politics of the birding and enviromentalist crowd over the hunting crowd. Swarovski's company mission statement is patently anti trophy hunting and radically pro-environmentalist, which is why I will never buy another Swarovski glass.

THUNDER,

I simply wanted to clarify,upon the virtues,of what has proven to be an exemplary product line.

Everyone's eyes are different,as is their subjectivity regarding "feel"(ergonomics). I felt it inaccurate to state the Classics are prone to fogging and not manufactured in accordance to prevent that.

Optics selection is a very personal matter,because no two sets of eyes see things the same.

Durability and warranty are subject to evaluation,without such subjectivity.

Zeiss is a mainstay here. The Classics in particular and I know them to be a ruggedly constructed,premier optical device,with more rigorous miles upon them than any other make.

The are the mainstay in these parts,and without compromise..............

Jordan,

I have no links to Swarovski, but would like to stand up for them a little.

Here in the UK, they support Deer stalking and other country sports 100%. The sponsor many Deer stalking related activities including giving optics as prizes at various stalking related shooting competions...

Pete

Has anybody compared the Nikon Venture LX's with the others? One of the "birding" sites I have been to had them rated the highest. I have not been able to locate a pair myself. Of the instore comparisons that I have done, I personally rated them as:

1. Swarovski EL (8.5X42)
2. Leica (8X42) very close to EL's
3. Swarovski SLC (10X42)
4. TIE- Kahels, Pentax, Ziess Victory

Value wise, the Pentax binos were very good to my eyes. At half the price, I am not so sure that the others were twices as good. I do realize that my testing conditions were not he best. And I know that there is more to it than optical clairity. From what I could see, I would go with either Leica's or Swarvoski's OR Pentax. TTS

Big Stick, I didn't base my statement of the Ziess Classic's only on my pair fogging, but rather the Cabela's ad, a review on ( THE BETTER VIEW ) web site which tested a set of 7x42 clasics against Leica & Swarowski. They stated that the Ziess were not imersion waterproof and a old article by a writer in the Rifle magazine a few years back who said the same thing. The tests on the Better View were old though ( reprints ) 1993 so Ziess has probably changed their sealing system. I have used mine extensivly with no problems since the factory servicing. I would never sell mine as I like the way they feel,etc. T

THUNDER,

I understand that. My point is,one can't expect a store to accurately relate every warranty,for every product. As that would make a catalog so large,one couldn't pick it up.

Zeiss,typical of most high end manufacturers,stand behind their products,as one would expect.

Research is the best purchase aid,a man has. When in doubt,it is best to hear it from the horse's(Manufacturer's)mouth. A quick phone call/Email,can do much to add confidence in a purchase,or keep you from getting burned.

I tend to ask a lot of questions,as money doesn't come easy to me.................

Just ordered a pair of Leica 8X42BNs from Bear Basin. They were great to deal with. Thanks for all the help. TTS