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  Got this one this morning tending a doe. 349 yards away. 270 Rem with Broughton-Richards bbl. 150 Berger VLD, IMR4350, Fed 215M primer, WW brass. 28 degrees and a strong headwind. I can't figure this out. I checked my rifle on paper at 200 yards again and it is on target. It is slightly high at 100, not even an inch. I shot a doe opening morning in KY on the 13th at 289 and the bullet hit high shoulder which is exactly where I was aiming, so, any drop was not noticeable. Then today, I aimed on the topline of this buck since chart says bullet will drop only a few inches, plus I was going on 2 weeks ago experience. This buck was only an additional 60 yards. Well, the bullet hit his spine perfectly and did not drop near as much as I though it would. Not that I'm complaining but isn't this flatter trajectory than normal? I had bipod rest and shot both while prone, not out of breath, relaxed shot each time. When the season is over I'm going to shoot on paper to 400 and see what this is doing. Sorry for the small pics. They are from my cell phone. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | ||
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Congrats Doc. ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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Thank you. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Doc very nice deer. I would suggest setting targets at 100, 200, 300, and 400 and shooting all in the same day using the same type of rest. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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One mighty fine buck.  /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Congrats! haven't seen one like that all year in KY... Good Hunting, Tim Herald Worldwide Trophy Adventures tim@trophyadventures.com | |||
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Great deer! | |||
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Great deer.Dont jinx it by shooting at targets!!!  | |||
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Thanks fellas. I went back this afternoon and saw only a small spike buck at 174 yards on my way back out. I have a place where I can shoot to 650 yards in KY. As soon as gun season is over I'm going to see what happens every 100 yards. My curiosity is peaked. The barrel maker/rifle builder emailed me back saying that I'm not the first one who told him Bergers shoot really flat out of his barrels. Oh well, I'm certainly not complaining! Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Uh...unless I am missing something the laws of gravity effect the bullet in the same way regardless of what kinda barrel they come out of... Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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At 350 yards, you can move the scope the equivalent of crosshairs thickness and change POI six or eight inches... That is some impressive shooting, but what I just said is why I don't shoot that far. The error factor is just too great for my comfort zone. | |||
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I have the leupold fine crosshair with the single target dot. I haven't noticed anything odd with POI so far (other than the bullet just keeps hitting within inches of where I aim) . With a solid rest and no wind, head wind, or tail wind, I'm very comfortable to 350Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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But this bbl is magic.  Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Hey Doc, That is quite a nice KY Buck. Sure glad that bullet(which is Designed for PAPER) didn't let you down. | |||
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Am I confused, but isn't the limit on whitetail bucks in KY: ONE. Unless of coarse you are on wildlife management land! Just curious. | |||
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Congratulations on a very nice buck, Doc.
When you sighted in, were you using the bipod or using a different rest? | |||
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Yes, you are confused. Just one. And that is all I killed. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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This bullet is designed for hunting. Berger doesn't make .277 target bullets. To date, I've killed about 11 whitetails now with this combo. Worked like a charm every time, just like btips, accubonds, and barnes bullets. Can't tell any difference.  Small hole in, about 1" exit, and disaster in between. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Both. 1st always on a shooting bench with a front an rear rest, then follow up with bipod or shooting sticks...anything I may use in the field. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Good job, Doc. As usual . . . -eric " . . . a gun is better worn and with bloom off---So is a saddle---People too by God." -EH | |||
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Sure hate to disagree with you Doc, but the only thing "different" that I've been able to pin down is the Marketing Bologna and the Labeling on the Boxes. If they are actually "different" from their Bullets Designed-for-Paper, what is different? | |||
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Maybe you didn't hit where you were holding due to buck fever? Zinfandel and venison are GOOD! | |||
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I am not 100% certain but I think I was told the jacket is different. I'll find out. Edited: called Berger. Difference b/w target and hunting bullet is jacket base thickness where "hunting" bullets have standard thickness jackets. It's perfectly fine to disagree with me or Berger on that. I realized the controversy going into loading these but they were/are so accurate, I knew I'd try them and they work just fine on game. I'd say the VLD bullets are going to be just as pro/con as a btip. Love them or hate them. So far I'm at 100% success with them (both)! Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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I have been hitting where I'm holding or within very few inches, like 2-3. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Thanks Doc, That is the first time anyone has ever said there is any actual difference between them - that I've heard about. Any chance they explained what a "Standard Thickness Jacket" means? Most Lead Core Bullets have a Jacket that Tapers toward the Tip to promote Initial Expansion. Some even have Skives to begin the Jacket Separation along predetermined Degrees of separation. Anyway, I'm glad you are having good luck with them. | |||
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I just thought of something we haven't discussed here: are you shooting "flat", or is/was there an elevation difference between you and the buck? | |||
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Yes. I asked that very question. The answer: "the same jacket/thickness you'll find on most hunting bullets, ex. Rem. corelokt, Winchester PP." Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Hasn't been discussed because all shots were just about level, even though they were over deep ravines/creek bottoms. Good point, however. I should have mentioned that in OP to rule out aiming points. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Congrats on a fine buck Doc. I too have been liking the accuracy of the Bergers in one of my 7RMs, but one left a sour taste in my mouth a couple weeks back. I shot a small bodied 160lb 8pt at 130yds with a .284 140grn VLD at 3175fps MV and had a rather explosive result. The entrance was right in the pocket behind the shoulder and only frags made it to the off side. It was a very thick area and took a while to find him with absolutely no blood. I've had alot of bullets let me down with freak occurances over the years, so maybe it was a rare instance with the VLD. Even had one of my beloved NBTs let me down this year on a nice buck. A finisher to the shoulder at 260yds created nothing but a surface wound with no hole in the onside ribs under the shoulder. I've never experienced that with an NBT after truckloads of kills with them, but have to admit it happened. I've had the same thing happen with an NPT as well. Even had a NAB make a strange deflection last year. I feel if you shoot enough with any of them, strange things can happen. Have a good one, Reloader | |||
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Thanks Reloader. On one of the smaller does I killed Sunday (of 4), the butcher retrieved the bullet. It was a broadside shot at about 125 yards. I squared the bullet in the shoulder and it was just under the skin on the other side. It was as advertised. Not much left. Now that I've had a couple of good seasons with this bullet from this rifle, I'll use something else next year. May dedicate everything to the Barnes bullets again for a whole season and see what happens. Lord knows I have plenty of them on the bench.  Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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I hope you do mind if I attach my ky buck to your thread. I used a marlin 308me again this year and changed to the the barnes 150 grain flat nose X bullets. I had lots of problems last year with the hornady leverevolution bullets blowning up on shots under 100 yards. This buck shot at 63 yards, instant kill with a neck shot.  | |||
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Don't mind at all! Congrats to you too! Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Well that explains it, the "Gravity" is different over those DEEP Ravines. | |||
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thanks Doc! | |||
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