There is a story in the newspaper today about the National Infantry Museum at Fort Benning, Georgia. Of many artifacts on display there, according to the story, "The rarest...is a .345 caliber German game rifle made for Saddam. It was taken by the 1st Battalion, 30th Infantry, during a raid of one of Saddam's palaces." The story is accompanied by a picture of National Infantry Museum director Frank Hanner sighting down the barrel of the rifle. In the picture, very little of the distinguishing characteristics of the rifle can be seen, except that it is an over/under.

Anybody know about what this gun could be? What would a .345 caliber rifle be? I'm not familiar with such a caliber at the present day. Is this accurate, or a journalistic error?

LE270, that would work out to approximately 8.5mm. The only reference I was able to find for either is 8.5mm Mars (E&B). I was not able to find any details, maybe one of our European friends would be familiar with this.

Not sure of that rifle. However, a lot of news clips show Saddam with a hunting hat on ( like the Europeans wear) and a Mannlicher style Rifle he holds up in the air and shoots.

That sure was a nice rifle. I always wondered what that was. If you have a country in total control and the income of the government is your personal piggy bank, I can imagine how neat of a Mannlicher Rifle you would be able to get.
Guess tyranny has its perks.

seafire,
I think the rifle you are referring to (that Saddam shoots one handed into the air during a parade/rally from a balcony) is a Ruger M77 RSI. I don't know what the chambering is, but you can see the Ruger checkering pattern, the red recoil pad and the loop forend sling swivel.

I'm familiar with the picture of Saddam holding and shooting a Mannlicher-style rifle one-handed -- I posted something here awhile back about that picture, and several people responded saying that it looked like a Ruger. I assume that those answers are correct, concerning that rifle.

The rifle shown in the photo today is definitely not that rifle. This one today is definitely an over/under.

A MAN WITH HIS MONEY HOLDING A RUGER NOW I KNOW HE WAS A COUPLE OF DEVILED EGGS SHORT OF A PICNIC

Don't waste your time guessing.

Reporters are always wrong about firearms. There is a special class in journalism schools to develop this ability.

Yukon,

Thanks; If it is a plain old Ruger RSI then I can go down and get one at my local shop. I have either debated on getting one, or have been strongly thinking about the CZ full stock in 6.5 x 55.

The gentleman above are right about reporters not knowing firearms. That kid who was arrested in NJ not long ago, that they thwarted going on a killing spree..... The news was saying he was armed with " assault rifles" and I saw them showing a picture of a Model 94 Winchester.

Must have thought the old Chuck Connors and the "Rifleman" TV show was reality. I am surprised when some "anti gun" reporter knows the difference between a sling shot and a bazooka.

One night while watching the news, there was a huge blowup of Saddam holding that Mannlicher stocked rifle. It was definitely a Ruger 77 RSI. I've always wondered what caliber it was chambered to? Cosidering the apparent recoil, I'd be inclined to guess at .243, but who knows. If I could find a place to safely shoot mine in .308, I'd be better able to judge what it might be. Wouldn't mind owning his though. I just love those RSIs.
Paul B.

mehulkamdar,

I trust to a man of letters as yourself my facetiousness was interpreted as such.

No offense intended, with the exception of those reporters who are cavalier about their inaccuracies.

[ 08-09-2003, 04:40: Message edited by: steve y ]

Steve Y: I too, am a journalist, having worked in the field as a copy editor, news editor, editor, managing editor, newspaper owner and reporter. I would venture to say that there's a hell of a lot more non-journalists making dumb-assed remarks about firearms than there are journalists making them. I work on a small daily newspaper now in my golden years of newsreporting and I can tell you for a fact that we have several on the staff who enjoy shooting and outdoor sports. In my 30 years in journalism I have crossed paths of many in the same profession who also enjoy shooting, hunting and the like and would know the difference beween a .22/250 and a .458 Winchester Magnum. There are those in my industry who speak out against gun ownership, or know nothing about firearms, but simply because they are uneducated in the ways of the firearms, does that mean they speak for the entire journalism industry ... hell no it doesn't! Thank you for your time ... Tom Purdom

The Manlicher that he holds up and shoots is a Brno Mod.22F, apparantly he knows a good gun..then why wouldn't he...

Steve Y,

No offense taken at all - I do agree with you that journalists could check on what they don't know (guns especially) before they write about it. The fact of the matter is that I DO wish more of my tribe were members here. Those who aren't don't know what they are missing.

Good hunting!

/

Was it?, I thought it was a 22F...He was shooting it off in the air, right?...maybe he doesn't have as good a taste in guns as I thought?

Well, I for one, hope we never get a chance to ask him.

I thought it was a Steyr-Mannlicher Model M or L full stock the time or two that I saw it. I never did see a still shot though. Anyway, he can't try that same stunt now without a blackhawk getting pinged. I think that his tail feathers are getting a little bit singed.

I think you all are right as to what type rifle he is shooting off, it depends on which picture you are looking at. There was a discussion about this a while back on another site and someone posted about 6 different pictures of him doing this and you could see that the rifles, though they all had Mannlicher stocks were different manufacture. Hardly surprising due to the size of his gun collection and his propensity for grandstanding.

Ray. One night while watching Peter Jenning on the tube, they had a very greatly enlarged picture of Saddam holding the rifle. It was on the screen for about 15 seconds. What was noticable was the flat portion arounf the magazine floorplate, typically Ruger 77. Also, you could see the Ruger logo in the gripcap.
They really are not bad rifles, although not the most accurate in the world. I have three of the little buggers, all in .308 Win. They're at least accurate enough to drop a mule deer at 250 yards. I would feel too handicapped using it on elk, if I could make up the loads for it. My wife liked the one I had so much, she appropriated it. I told her I'd get her one of her own, which I did. Then I fell into another one. All were in .308 Win. Now if I could only find one in 7x57.
Paul B.

Gentlemen!

You're all talking about something different from what I saw in the newspaper article and the accompanying photograph! THIS one (as distinguished from the Mannlicher-style one Saddam himself shot one-handed in the widely distributed photo of some time ago) was definitely quite different; THIS one was an over-under, and it did not have a Mannlicher-style stock. So answering my question by talking about that other, Mannlicher-style one is beside my point. There are at least 2 very different rifles involved here -- the Mannlicher-style bolt action one and the 0ver/under one in the newspaper story and photo that I referred to above.

[ 08-11-2003, 03:44: Message edited by: LE270 ]

For overhead shooting into the air what's better, CRF or PF?

Paul

A "345?" I can't help wondering if this was a typo and the rifle was really a custom made 375?