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That's what this guy (John Wilson) on the Outdoor Channel's "Trophy Quest" is trying to do: take all 29 species of North American big game on the Boone and Crocket list with an open-sighted, lever action 30-30. Actually, this should make for some interesting television, however, he had better hope the show stays on the air a looong time, as last I heard (unless you are very rich and can buy one at a charity auction),desert bighorn, Shira's moose and Tule elk tags can take half a lifetime to obtain in the open draw. I'm not going to comment on the choice of weapon since I am sure the 30-30 has taken every species on the list at one time or another, but I will ask just what 30-30 bullet do you use to take a brown bear, musk ox and Alaskan/Yukon moose? I figure if you can find a load to kill these cleanly, then everything else on the list should simply follow suit. | ||
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If some one would say to me here a 30-30 and the cash go hunt all the NA game you can with it. I would be gone as soon as I could make the arrangements. Considering that 30-30 vels are not that high most bullet well preform as one would expect. I most likely would go with a 170 gr and a rifle instead of a carbine. But if you are paying the bills I'll take what you give me. | |||
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I think this is an admirable goal and I'm all for it! If it were me I'd use a 150 grain bullet for most of the animals and see how that treats me and make a decision for the big bears. I used 150 grain bullets factory and handloads when I was a kid and a deer never stopped one from going all the way through. When I was about 11 years old my grandpa "loaned" me an old 1894 carbine in 30/30. When he dropped it off and told me he needed someone to clean it and shoot it every once and awhile I was the man for the job. He told me stories of this rifle and all of the game it had taken and I sat through this with my mouth hanging open. My grandpa had a lumber mill in far northern BC and would loan this rifle out to employees and acquaintences. The rifle took many many Moose, several Big Bears and Black Bears, Mountain Goats and Caribou as well as several Blacktailed deer which I added a few to the count. This was back in the days when a 30/06 was deemed all the power you would ever need even for the Big Bears. Its truly a shame that we can't even kill a whitetailed deer unless we have a 30/378 Maximum Magnum and premium bullets. Sack check everyone where did our manhood go? | |||
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The 30-30 has probably killed more big game animals than any of the modern rounds over the years. I don’t fine this guy’s endive very interesting. The 30-30 has killed them all, many times over. I don’t see it as a special event. To kill some of those critters, all you need to do is get closer. | |||
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closer is that key like MikinColo said if it were me using it I personally would opt for a 165 gr Partion (or is it 170)whatever the partion would get the nod for me I just remembered something On a television show where the choose the "One" the host shot an American Buffalo(1200#) with a open sighted lever action 30-30 don't know if its the same show or not | |||
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as each of the species listed can and has been taken with a bow, a 30-30 should pose no real problem to someone willing to get close. i do like the premise showing the world you dont need a loudenboomer to shoot game! i remember seeing an old episode of babe winklemans show where his horse fell and broke the stock on his rifle while moose hunting in i believe the Yukon, and he shot a very nice bull with the guide's open sighted .308 browning BLR. NRA Life Member Gun Control - A theory espoused by some monumentally stupid people; who claim to believe, against all logic and common sense, that a violent predator who ignores the laws prohibiting them from robbing, raping, kidnapping, torturing and killing their fellow human beings will obey a law telling them that they cannot own a gun. | |||
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I'm not questioning the validity of the caliber. In fact, like everybody else who commented, it is refreshing that a tv show will highlight the fact that non-magnum calibers still kill game. (Though I dare say a 30-30 would not be my first choice for the bigger species, or the ones that traditionally require longer shots.) I am just wondering out loud the minimum amount of time it would take to accomplish this task, given the difficulty in obtaining tags for some of the species on the list. | |||
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GAHUNTER,
To me, that’s the interesting part of his endeavor. How much time and money is it going to take? Even if he had no trouble drawing tags, there’s no guaranty that he’ll fill the tag on the first try. He could be at this for a while. He’s not going to complete this project on his own. He is going to have to hire guide services to have a chance at a number of those animals. If his sponsors don’t bail out on him first, I would imagine he’s going to spend a fortune before he gets half way through this project. | |||
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Just another "gun rag" television series. I am holding my breath for "Loading Data, the exciting 30-40 Kraig" or perhaps "The over looked .270 Winchester". If this series is successful then we might see all the big game that the .223 can kill next. I hope that the series has the hunter whispering to the guide, it almost makes my heart stop when the hunter whispers: "I think I'll hold our for that big one we saw yesterday." and the guide whispers back: "I'm sure he will be back." (after all this is a high fenced ranch and we have him in a 50'X50' pen just over the next hill, hop in the truck and lets go shoot him, we're running out of film) Don't ask me what happened, when I left Viet Nam, we were winning. | |||
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Well, I don't think he'd have too much trouble getting tags. the sponsor will pay copiuos quantities of cash and the states need money. We all know how money talks and BS walks, right? Paul B. | |||
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I would think it only fair that he kill the great bears in fair chase without someone standing off camera with some sort of cannon ready to bail him out. If so, it just becomes another made for TV dog and pony show. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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Just to chime in as an old timer who carried a 30-30 as a kid. I think (or, I hope he was thinking realistically, not about shooting any very long range animal)but about dropping any animal within the 30-30's range. I don't want to be a hypocrite about this. I would not want to face a grizzly or brown bear with anything less than my user name caliber - but many,many,people killed them with 30-30s. That's a fact. (The Eskimo hunters regularly killed polar bears with 30-30s) It was done with hunters who knew game anatomy and could make an aimed shot. Aiming and placement of the bullet has always been the name of the game. The 30-30,until very recent years was said to have killed more deer than any other cartridge in America. The ammo companies have sold new shooters for years on the latest "Magnum". (Does anyone remember today the 264 Win.Magnum"?I well remember when I read advertising that suggested that it was the 270 Win. -only better. Funny, the 270 is still around. Why am I not surprised? | |||
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I'm sure without exception, the folks that killed grizzlies and such with 30-30s and .223s and such did it 'cause that's all they had.... "No woman, put that .338 back in the igloo! I'm gonna kill this 1200# white bear with a .223! Show everybody I'm super kewl." ROFLMAO If I was fixin' to get et by a polar bear and all I had was a .22, I guarentee you I'd be blasting away with it. And if I survived the encounter, I'd tell all the sports in the lower 48 that a .22 was big medicine for a polar bear. Don'tchaknow.  In my honest opinion, if the guy does it with back up, he's a hot dog made for TV, etc,etc. If he does it without back up, he's a nut case. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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I have watched that show and the reason for the 30-30 as I understand it, is that was the gun he learned to hunt with as a kid. Not just the same caliber but the same gun. He also hunts other game with other weapons. The last one I watched he was hog hunting with a handmade traditional bow. No sights or release. Wood arrows. Kinda neat. The shows I've seen were better than most of them on right now. | |||
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In the book "Last of the Brown Bear Men" one of the guides Pinnell or Talifson, can't remember which, as its been a while from last time I reread the book, killed the largest bear he ever shot -- a 12 footer with a 94 in 30-30. So, its been done on a whopper. In this case not with premium bullets either as there were none then. | |||
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Its doable, at one time or another every single head of game in NA has been taken with the 30-30. I would go with what ever 170 gr load that shot best in my rifle. Now the real question is that its going to take a lot of time and a lot of money. The time and money part is the tough one. Not shooting a 30-30. How much time and money well if you have the time, ie don't have to go make a living the time you could do it in 5 to 10 years and about One Million dollars maybe a tad more. Short of money, then you might be looking at a 25 to 35 year journey. Its not something that you could do in a couple of TV seasons. | |||
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For informational purposes, this is the list he is up against. 1-Alaska Brown Bear 2-Black Bear* 3-Grizzly Bear 4-Polar Bear 5-Bison 6-Barren Ground Caribou* 7-Central Canada Barren Ground Caribou* 8-Mountain Caribou* 9-Quebec-Labrador Caribou 10-Woodland Caribou 11-Cougar* 12-Columbian Blacktail Deer* 13-Sitka Blacktail Deer 14-Coues' Deer* 15-Mule Deer* 16-Whitetail Deer* 17-Roosevelt's (Olympic) Elk 18-Tule Elk 19-American (Yellowstone) Elk* 20-Alaska-Yukon Moose 21-Canada Moose* 22-Shiras' Moose 23-Muskox 24-Pronghorn Antelope* 25-Rocky Mountain Goat 26-Rocky Mountain Bighorn Sheep 27-Dall's Sheep 28-Desert Bighorn Sheep 29-Stone's Sheep IMO, the polar bear and the tule elk will be the most difficult to achieve because of the difficulty in the permiting process and other logistics. All the other, including a desert sheep (Mexico), are attainable with enough money. The money or permitting process is basically what has kept me from adding more species to the 12 I already have as indicated with the *. Although they aren't big game for the above list, I also have a super slam of wild turkey -- Merriam's, Rio Grande, Osceola, Gould's and Eastern. At my age now, I doubt I'll get to add too many more species unless I get drawn for a bison and desert bighorn here, which would complete an original AZ Big 10 for me. It's a Big 12 now with the addition of RM bighorns and Gould's turkey to the state. As for the 30/30, I see no reason why he can't get it done if he's judicious in shot selection. The Inuits and native Canadian Indians have used M94 30/30s for decades to shoot every critter around. When I did my BC hunt in the 1980s for moose and mountain caribou, a Slavey Indian guide and I did an 8-day spike camp by horseback. He carried a M94 in his saddle scabbard. It looked like it had been through a garbage compactor, but he claimed it still shot straight. I just didn't press him on his definition of "straight."  Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
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With all due respect to Arizona, (a state whose scenery and people I liked), I think most of us 30-30 shooters were talking about what one of our pioneer smokeless cartridges was so good at -within 150 yards -and a well aimed shot. The 30-30 didn't get its reputation for being so deadly on the basis of advertising. It was performance. (In my younger days I travelled in Panama and heard always the words "Treinta-treinta" when anyone spoke of a rifle cartridge. It was what the locals and some Indios carried. BTW, the locals, including Indios, in the Darien country (today a province of Panama) were having to face "El tigre" (jaguar) -and before I hear from anyone - the original Spaniards were perfectly familiar with the fact that the jaguar was not an Asian "tiger". They were trying to describe the jaguar as being equally dangerous. (He weighs up to 300 lbs,making him one of the biggest cats in the world -and, like the leopard and the polar bear, is perfectly willing to hunt man without provocation.Fact) Of course, I don't advocate the 30-30 as a perfect "all around" cartridge (there isn't one) - but I'm only saying -Don't sneer at the 30-30. It has saved many lives, I'm sure -and I am sure there are a lot of very young men -and girls - who will be dropping a lot of deer as their first trophy with the 30-30. | |||
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Since I didn't say anything contrary to the above from what I can see, what's your point with the quote above? If necessary, I'd be happy to explain what "judicious" means. BTW, the first centerfire rifle I owned was a Marlin 336 Texan in 30/30. That was more than 50 years ago. Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
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I caught his black bear episode the other day and that was not the animals he listed. I don't know the exact list is but I did notice walrus and alligator. I couldn't find his list anywhere online but he has some flexibility as to which 29 he chooses. http://www.scifirstforhunters....orth_American_29.pdf "The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry" - Robert Burns | |||
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I think somone does have a list that includes Atlantic & Pacific walrus and jaguar (now protected), which makes a total of 32 animals. But I haven't seen one with the alligator on it. Perhaps because it's a reptile rather than a mammal? Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
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I don't know either but the link I posted is from the SCI website so it should be correct. "The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry" - Robert Burns | |||
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That's merely SCI's award-driven version of what it considers to be the NA's game animals. But they bumped up the number with the caveat that members must kill 29 of those listed. For example, they have two versions of the black bear, Coastal and Inland, included, as well as an "Arctic Islands" caribou. They also have a western and eastern Canada moose designation and the gray wolf. And as I mentioned earlier, the alligator, which is also included, is not a NA mammal. At least SCI didn't include coyotes, bobcats, skunks, racoons, etc. LOL I believe B&C had a list of what was considered to be the 29 (27 maybe?) huntable NA mammals long before SCI came into being. It was pretty much the list used for anyone attempting to attain that status. Maybe it merely follows along with all the critters B&C keeps records for. I'll see if I can dig it up. Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
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Not a new concept, but all the best to him. J. Y. Jones did it with a Remington Model 700 30-06 over many years using the SCI list of 38 animals (at the time, don't know if that has changed). He wrote a book about it called One Man, One Rifle, One Land. He has all the animals mounted in a barn separate from his house. Quite a sight. Several of his bears standing together are very impressive, especially the polar bear. I don't know what all is on his website, but here's the link. http://www.jyjones.com/ Andy | |||
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Gasp, shudder, you mean hunting DG with a push feed?? I'll bet he never gets to heaven.  Aim for the exit hole | |||
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Outdoor writer: I know some of you snarky transplanted westerners think you are real westerners -but I always learned early on - Never fight with a skunk - and you are a skunk! To put it another way - (in another old expression I learned as a "tenderfoot")- Never get into a mudfight with a pig - the pig enjoys it and you only get dirty. I have no idea what you "write" but you are a perfect example of the snobbery of people who wish to rule us in this country. ("Judicious"?- please, sir, educate us all from your lofty perch as a "writer". | |||
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judicious A adjective 1 judicious, sensible proceeding from good sense or judgment; "a sensible choice" 2 judicious, sensible, wise marked by the exercise of good judgment or common sense in practical matters; "judicious use of one's money"; "a sensible manager"; "a wise decision" 3 judicious characterized by good judgment or sound thinking; "judicious journalism" EXAMPLE 1: Gerrypeters375 is not very judicious when he types something here. EXAMPLE 2: As for the 30/30, I see no reason why he can't get it done if he's judicious in shot selection. Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
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Lotsa difference between a '06 and a 30-30. I still want to know if there'll be someone standing off camera with a .458??? If so, it's nothing more than a dog and pony show made for TV. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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Pretty harsh judgement for the guy who wants to hunt with a 30/30. Is this what its come to where every discussion here lowers itself to harsh criticism and insults? Jesus people he wants to hunt game with a 30/30 its not like he wants to be president or something....... | |||
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This is about the 3rd or 4th time I've seen you launch a personal attack against Tony. I'm really curious just what your problem is? Tony has posted on these forums for years. He has provided many links and a huge amount of information to us. I have yet to see you post hardly anthing of any real value. Go, GerryPeters375, What's your beef with Tony? | |||
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I don't see what all the hype is about this show. I believe that most of us are "over gunned" anyway, and I am confident that a 30-30 and good shot placement can easily kill all the mentioned game animals. I would gladly take my Marlin 336SS and a few boxes of Hornady LeverEvolutions and go hunting. | |||
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 ROTFLMAO JUST A TYPICAL WHITE GUY BITTERLY CLINGING TO GUNS AND RELIGION Definition of HOPLOPHOBIA "I'm the guy that originally wrote the 'assault weapons' ban." --- Former Vice President Joe Biden | |||
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Mac, Don't sweat the small stuff. I actually enjoy controversial, even a bit "heated" discussions -- IF everyone stays on THE TOPIC. It's not difficult to disagree without being disagreeable. BUT...unfortunately there will always be someone on any site who can't carry on an intelligent discussion without throwing out personal barbs and insults. I've been dealing with many of them since I began as the administrator in 1982 -- before the existence of the Web -- of what was probably the first outdoor/hunting-oriented forum on Compuserve. I long ago learned that there's no way to avoid them. So I either ignore them or humor them. So life goes on....  Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
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Snellstrom, perhaps you're right up to a point but if all he wants to do is kill some stuff with a 30-30, why don't he just go do it? But if he is presenting that he is putting himself in harms way by hunting the great bears with a cartridge that woefully inadequate, is he indeed putting himself in harms way? I think it's a valid question and I'd just like to know. I dont have a bone to pick with the guy. I don't even know him as I don't watch outdoors shows. Too hokey. I'd also like to know why the New York boy has got a case of the ass about Tony too? Aim for the exit hole | |||
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Beeman we agree. But..... I'm not so sure that he is making a big thing about putting himself in harms way, they might just be leaving that up to the armchair/keyboard quarterbacks on the internet forums to take care of that angle! I don't see it as that big a deal honestly. If faced with anything that might do you harm I'd much rather have a 30/30 in my hands than a Bow and Arrow or even a 44 mag handgun, honestly its not that big a thing in my eyes. "I'd also like to know why the New York boy has got a case of the ass about Tony too?" Well Gerrypeters has had something up his ass since he started posting here if its not calling out "westerners" about mis identifying Lynx then its something else, it will always be something I'm sure.  | |||
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Well, I've never shot a bear of any sort. But I've seen a couple of videoes of hunters killing polar bears up close and personal. One in particular had me on the edge of my seat even though I knew it was a video. This hunter and his guide was tracking a bear in a big jumble of ice. The sport had just finished telling the guide "don't you dare shoot that bear. I won't pay you if you shoot", when the bear came for them. When the bear stood up, the hunter was having to shoot UPWARDS at his vitals. And every move the bear made was toward the hunter. The word awsome takes on a whole new meaning in discribing the bear's tenasity. It made me decide that if I ever went polar bear hunting, my weapon of choice would have wheels under it and a minimum serving crew of four. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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Beeman Try to remember the name of that video you saw I like that sort of thing and I'd like to see it! I'll watch the video and picture myself there with my old 1894 lever action my grandpa gave me! (loaded with cup and core 150 grain boolits) | |||
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I thought Al Gore said there were no Polar Bears. | |||
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I guess if it floats the guy's boat great. Would not be my choice for all around, btu at the same time it isn't THAT bad of choice either if the guy knows how to handle it. Chuck Adams and a few other guys I'm sure did it with an arrow, so a 30-30 Doesn't seem like anything that out there to me. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting All 29 species of North American big game with a 30-30?
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