I saw a post where a young lady killed a Lion (MTN type) opening weekend on MO.
Nothing after the post and picture, I wonder how that played out

Here's the story with pictures.

https://dailyjournalonline.com...kend-of-deer-season/

Kendra Lickliker shared their story on her personal Facebook profile and in the Facebook groups “MO Buck Hunters” and “Women Who Shoot, Hunt, and Fish” along with photos of the massive animal in the back of a pickup truck. In one photograph, the animal has a gaping exit wound in its mid-chest, and the body spans the width of the pickup’s bed.

This will really upset the urbanite fur-baby crowd.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
This will really upset the urbanite fur-baby crowd.

shooting when not in season should upset us hunters too,

quote:

Originally posted by Tim629:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
This will really upset the urbanite fur-baby crowd.

shooting when not in season should upset us hunters too,

Shooting them while defending ones self shouldn't up set us at all.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by Tim629:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
This will really upset the urbanite fur-baby crowd.

shooting when not in season should upset us hunters too,

Shooting them while defending ones self shouldn't up set us at all.

Where does it show in the story that it was a threat, what were they defending them selves from,a cat looked at them so they shot it.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by Tim629:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
This will really upset the urbanite fur-baby crowd.

shooting when not in season should upset us hunters too,

Shooting them while defending ones self shouldn't up set us at all.

the problem is the story said they specifically said it wasn't threatening just walked under the stand. defense is 100% a different situation, shooting just because makes us look bad as a group

Not much further information available I searched.

All large predator's are armed all the time. The are very capable of inflecting death or great bodily harm if they make contact.

The difference from Going from under the tree to being in ones lap is a split second.

Unless one is DR. Doolittle I know one who can read a animals mind or intentions.

A large predator who does not leave quickly is a threat and should be dealt with appropriately.

Depending on the situation can can be anything from scaring them away to stopping the threat.

With the information available. I cannot determine the level of threat at the time it was shot.

Below are several justifiable defensive shootings of cougars by hunters.

https://www.ammoland.com/2023/...curacy-not-required/


https://www.ammoland.com/2023/...ion-in-self-defense/

https://www.ammoland.com/2014/...not-widely-reported/

https://www.ammoland.com/2017/...ion-in-self-defense/

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Not much further information available I searched.

All large predator's are armed all the time. The are very capable of inflecting death or great bodily harm if they make contact.

The difference from Going from under the tree to being in ones lap is a split second.

Unless one is DR. Doolittle I know one who can read a animals mind or intentions.

A large predator who does not leave quickly is a threat and should be dealt with appropriately.

Depending on the situation can can be anything from scaring them away to stopping the threat.

With the information available. I cannot determine the level of threat at the time it was shot.

Below are several justifiable defensive shootings of cougars by hunters.

https://www.ammoland.com/2023/...curacy-not-required/


https://www.ammoland.com/2023/...ion-in-self-defense/

https://www.ammoland.com/2014/...not-widely-reported/

https://www.ammoland.com/2017/...ion-in-self-defense/

Well every one is entitled to there opinion. I prefer it coming from someone that has some knowledge and experience of what there talking about. I apologize if wrong but from what I see you post I feel you have very little or no personal experience with cougars or grizzlys. I have been called to help on a fair number of what some call problem animals as well as look for both wounded cougar and bears. Have skinned a few of them also to see if any underlying reason for there actions, as well as talking personally to those involved in the encounters or said attacks.
Most are just that encounters and not real attacks or being stalked. All ways find it strange when one says there being attacked yet shoot the animal behind the shoulder.

quote:

Well every one is entitled to there opinion. I prefer it coming from someone that has some knowledge and experience of what there talking about. I apologize if wrong but from what I see you post I feel you have very little or no personal experience with cougars or grizzlys. I have been called to help on a fair number of what some call problem animals as well as look for both wounded cougar and bears. Have skinned a few of them also to see if any underlying reason for there actions, as well as talking personally to those involved in the encounters or said attacks.
Most are just that encounters and not real attacks or being stalked. All ways find it strange when one says there being attacked yet shoot the animal behind the shoulder.

To the person being attacked the underlaying reason really doesn't matter.

I glad you can also read the humans mind as to the amount of danger he perceived.

It only matters to those trying to make excuses for animals attacking humans.

I am glad you can read a dead animals mind or even a live animals mind.

Bullet placement in a deadly encounter is very dynamic. Just because an attacker is turned some what side ways doesn't mean they are not danger to you.

The imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm is the standard for using deadly force against a human.

Why would one use a higher standard for animals.

Large predators are always armed and are very capable of inflicting death or great bodily harm.

I also have interviewed person who have been attacked by animals.

I also have tracked down and killed wounded bears.

In my 3 plus decades as a LEO in a very rural area. I have vast experience dealing with nuisance animals.

I taught use of force and firearms. I was on my 500 man department's use of force committee.

I have vast experience with the use of force. The who, what, when and how's of it.

Again I will state why would one give an animal who you can not communicate does not understand the human language.

Who are very cable of inflecting death or serious bodily harm.

A greater benefit then a human attacker.

Dog's response is exactly why I do not believe in ultra protection for predators. They are not worth more than a human life.

Many modern day biologist's, enviro wackos, anti's of many types and so call animal lovers.

Truly believe animals and animal life's are more important then humans.

They believe that humans are an infection on earth and should be done away with.

Modern day pagans, earth worshipers.

Many gladly say the would rather kill a human than a animal.

That they would sacrifice themselves or another human to save their pets.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Many modern day biologist's, enviro wackos, anti's of many types and so call animal lovers.

Truly believe animals and animal life's are more important then humans.

They believe that humans are an infection on earth and should be done away with.

Modern day pagans, earth worshipers.

Many gladly say the would rather kill a human than a animal.

That they would sacrifice themselves or another human to save their pets.

You are right about that. Funny thing is none of them ever sacrifice themselves.

quote:

You are right about that. Funny thing is none of them ever sacrifice themselves.

I have told many if humans are so bad start with yourself.

None have ever taken me up on the idea.

Because they see them selves as superior to us mere. Unenlightened humans.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

You are right about that. Funny thing is none of them ever sacrifice themselves.

I have told many if humans are so bad start with yourself.

None have ever taken me up on the idea.

Because they see them selves as superior to us mere. Unenlightened humans.

Yep. Narcissistic psychopaths.

quote:

Originally posted by sage:

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by Tim629:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
This will really upset the urbanite fur-baby crowd.

shooting when not in season should upset us hunters too,

Shooting them while defending ones self shouldn't up set us at all.

Where does it show in the story that it was a threat, what were they defending them selves from,a cat looked at them so they shot it.

What if it was looking at them…(dramatic pause)…malevolently?


The author may have omitted statements she disagreed with.


.

Some of this like the India government.

How do you know it was a man eating tiger.

It did not eat you.

I spent decades not letting human criminals hurt me.

I am not about to let a animal inflict death or great bodily harm to me. To find out just what it's intentions are.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Some of this like the India government.

How do you know it was a man eating tiger.

It did not eat you.

I spent decades not letting human criminals hurt me.

I am not about to let a animal inflict death or great bodily harm to me. To find out just what it's intentions are.

We get it your scared of things you know nothing about. Your a shoot first ask questions later type guy.

Guys,

From the article it would seem that they could of easily have let the lion walk off. Mountain lions in most cases are quite reclusive and for me it would have been a thrill to encounter one in the circumstances described. To me it seems like some knee jerk reaction with an unnecessary outcome.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by sage:

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Some of this like the India government.

How do you know it was a man eating tiger.

It did not eat you.

I spent decades not letting human criminals hurt me.

I am not about to let a animal inflict death or great bodily harm to me. To find out just what it's intentions are.

We get it your scared of things you know nothing about. Your a shoot first ask questions later type guy.

By far the opposite.

Being highly trained having been involved with hundred of threating use of force situations.

Allows me to remain clam and evaluate situation quickly. With out flying off the handle that could easily gotten one fired or even sent to prison.

I have walked in dozens of hound bear fights.

I would put may experience of being closer to live wild bears up against many.

See when one runs bears with hounds
in training season. One can not shoot the bears.

But when the hounds have them bayed or treed one needs to get very close.

Grab the hounds put leash on them and pull them off the bear.

Even if the are on the ground fighting with the bear.

I have had a bear way more come out of the tree with in feet of me.

Several times I could have reach out and touched them.

Bears don't always cooperate by letting you get yards away.

So Far I haven't been run over several of my hound hunting friends have been.

It is the inexperience, untrained that panic and do the wrong thing.

Sounds like you might be one of those Sage. Projecting onto others what you might do.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Guys,

From the article it would seem that they could of easily have let the lion walk off. Mountain lions in most cases are quite reclusive and for me it would have been a thrill to encounter one in the circumstances described. To me it seems like some knee jerk reaction with an unnecessary outcome.

Mark

Mark do you really believe that you know what the animal was thinking and was going act.

I ran into one lion his tracks indicated he left very fast. lots of bears and lots of wolves. Most of them have been properly respectful and left post haste.

Those that didn't were looking down the barrel of the firearm I was happen to be carrying at the time.

I haven't had to shoot any of them because they left going away from me.

I can find no where that any charges were filed. So far the authorities must think it was justifiable.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim629:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
This will really upset the urbanite fur-baby crowd.

shooting when not in season should upset us hunters too,

Does Missouri even have lion season? For the record, I would have shot him..

Mountain lions, also known as cougars, are protected in Missouri under the state's Wildlife Code:

When they can be killed
Mountain lions can be killed if they are attacking or killing livestock, domestic animals, or threatening human safety

A far lower standard the death or bodily harm.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Tim629:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
This will really upset the urbanite fur-baby crowd.

shooting when not in season should upset us hunters too,

Does Missouri even have lion season? For the record, I would have shot him..

We don't. Lions are transitory here. Most are known of when they get killed crossing an interestate hwy. I think they've all been males as well. MO has become the latest CWD frenzied state and MDC will no doubt now bring in wolves and lions to kill deer just because of CWD. The predators will end up just eating cattle and house pets.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by sage:

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Some of this like the India government.

How do you know it was a man eating tiger.

It did not eat you.

I spent decades not letting human criminals hurt me.

I am not about to let a animal inflict death or great bodily harm to me. To find out just what it's intentions are.

We get it your scared of things you know nothing about. Your a shoot first ask questions later type guy.

By far the opposite.

Being highly trained having been involved with hundred of threating use of force situations.

Allows me to remain clam and evaluate situation quickly. With out flying off the handle that could easily gotten one fired or even sent to prison.

I have walked in dozens of hound bear fights.

I would put may experience of being closer to live wild bears up against many.

See when one runs bears with hounds
in training season. One can not shoot the bears.

But when the hounds have them bayed or treed one needs to get very close.

Grab the hounds put leash on them and pull them off the bear.

Even if the are on the ground fighting with the bear.

I have had a bear way more come out of the tree with in feet of me.

Several times I could have reach out and touched them.

Bears don't always cooperate by letting you get yards away.

So Far I haven't been run over several of my hound hunting friends have been.

It is the inexperience, untrained that panic and do the wrong thing.

Sounds like you might be one of those Sage. Projecting onto others what you might do.

haha wrong, you seem to be the one projecting ones thoughts on things. And not that it matters but have hounds so know enough about what goes on. Have had to go and deal with cougars more then once that were wounded by the highly trained you talk about. Training, badge and a gun doesnt always mean you know what your doing. Hell lots of people that hunt shouldnt be allowed to do so or own a gun. Lot more people killed or hurt every year by other hunters etc then by bears or cats.

Sage what is your profession.

There is a wide range of competence in any profession.

From rank beginners who have never done the task

To highly trained professionals who only have to be told to get the job done.

Hell lots of people that hunt shouldnt be allowed to do so or own a gun. Lot more people killed or hurt every year by other hunters etc then by bears or cats.

Does not have anything to do with the topic on hand.

It's a red herring to deflect from the subject we are talking about.

Far more people are hurt and kill doing all kinds of things.

But we are not talking about those.

From the news article:
"Mountain lions are known to travel throughout the state, but the MDC has been unable to document the existence of an established breeding population in the state. The Iron County kill is the 120th confirmed Missouri encounter since 1994."

MDC only "confirms" a lion's existence when it turns up dead. There was a 45lb female killed 3 miles north of me 20 years ago. That cat didn't make it to NE MO by wandering through. It was born here.
I collected scat and pics of tracks from a large tom and an adult female on my farm in Warren County. MDC tried to dismiss the tracks as bobcat and refused to take the scat to have it DNA profiled. I found tracks on my farm from a female with a litter. Again, MDC tried to say it was bobcat.
The Tom was killed on Interstate 70, 5 miles due South of my farm, and the female was killed in the exact same spot two weeks later. Both cats were labeled as "transient" by MDC, even though I had presented evidence of their existence on my farm for two years prior.

Bottom line, MO has a breeding population of lions and the population is significantly higher than most would believe. Also, MDC is The most corrupt and inept state F&G agency I've ever dealt with, and I've dealt with 38 state F&G agencies over my 40+ year career as an ADC specialist.

We have no breeding population in Wis. either

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Sage what is your profession.

There is a wide range of competence in any profession.

From rank beginners who have never done the task

To highly trained professionals who only have to be told to get the job done.

Hell lots of people that hunt shouldnt be allowed to do so or own a gun. Lot more people killed or hurt every year by other hunters etc then by bears or cats.

Does not have anything to do with the topic on hand.

It's a red herring to deflect from the subject we are talking about.

Far more people are hurt and kill doing all kinds of things.

But we are not talking about those.

Well since you say things have nothing to do with the topic what does ones profession have to do with it, other teh you like to say all you have done. So back on topic of a cougar shot in a area with no season and according to the article was showing no threat. Then you post a bunch of other things that to me show your lack of knowledge on the topic (cougars) but then again I may be wrong
and you have a lot of experience around them.

First off your information is not different from mine.

As we can only read the account we have.

The standard in MO for legally killing a cougar that is threating a human is very low.

threatening human safety

It is up to the person who encounters the lion to determine if it is a threat first.

Then the investigating agency, then the prosecutor, finally a jury of one peers.

Personally I have no problems with people killing animals.

As long as it is done legally.

So far it seems like it was a legal shooting.

quote:

Well since you say things have nothing to do with the topic what does ones profession have to do with it

You brought it up by implying you have some expertise. In the matter.

That implies education, training, experience, professional knowledge and credentials.

I have all that when it comes to use of force issues.

Defending oneself against a animal attack is a use of force matter.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Tim629:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
This will really upset the urbanite fur-baby crowd.

shooting when not in season should upset us hunters too,

Does Missouri even have lion season? For the record, I would have shot him..

We don't. Lions are transitory here. Most are known of when they get killed crossing an interestate hwy. I think they've all been males as well. MO has become the latest CWD frenzied state and MDC will no doubt now bring in wolves and lions to kill deer just because of CWD. The predators will end up just eating cattle and house pets.

You ain’t Lyin’, Ann!

IMHO; ANY MOUNTAIN LION UNDER YOUR DEER STAND CAN BE PERCIEVED AS A THREAT. I have a friend who was trapped for over two hours in a tree stand by an"interested" cat. Bow hunting and scared to death. Cat finally left and so did the hunter. cheers luke

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Well since you say things have nothing to do with the topic what does ones profession have to do with it

You brought it up by implying you have some expertise. In the matter.

That implies education, training, experience, professional knowledge and credentials.

I have all that when it comes to use of force issues.

Defending oneself against a animal attack is a use of force matter.

Well again you like to say all the training you have etc and seem proud of it which is good. I have all ready said, training , schooling, diplomas, badges etc dont really mean much to me I would take some one with real life experience on the topic. You say to keep it on topic which is cougars so what is your personal experience with them, dont have to deflect the topic to your use of force issues and training or how many men you looked after which has nothing to do with it. Just your personal experience with cougars. Again I apologize if wrong but guessing its very little or none at all. For me been following them around for 40 or so years, so guess you could call that personal experience, I prefer to learn about things my self then from what others write.

I have very little exspearince,

With cougars.

So I will fall back om your expertise.

Can cougars be dangerous.

Can a cougar attack a human.

Have cougars attacked humans

Have cougars inflected death or great bodily harm to humans.

Well, I have a lot of experience with people.

I have a fair amount of experience with wild felines, although admittedly not much with mountain lions.

My experience is that people without experience in dealing with something usually have a rather bad idea about the danger, either way.

I’m ok with what a good investigation comes up with- but a cat walking under your stand when you are armed isn’t automatically a threat.

What did the person do, what did they say happened, and what is the evidence of what actually happened.

If all you have to go off of is a news report, the odds are about 90% that something germane was left out.

I do think people have a right to defend themselves and their property from animals… but using self defense claims just to kill an animal is wrong.

If a bear tears up my food because I’m too damn dumb to bear proof my camp, I should not be allowed to shoot the bear from attacking my food and then “claim” I was scared it was going to attack me… while I’m inside an RV trailer.

Similarly, just because a mountain lions is following a deer I want to shoot doesn’t give me the right to shoot it.

A certain amount of proximity to wild animals is an assumed risk if you are hunting.

So if what was published here is the full and accurate recounting, then no, this was not a self defense shooting. Just because the mountain lion was within 20 yards isn’t justification… if it was, I’d have shot over 100 lion, over 50 female leopard, a couple dozen cheetah, a pair of mountain lions, over 20 black bears, a couple grizzly, a few wolves, and about 30 brown bears.

It’s not just proximity, it’s a reasonable belief that the animal is going to attack.

quote:

It’s not just proximity, it’s a reasonable belief that the animal is going to attack.

Correct It is the totally of the circumstances.

Articles a lot of the times leave facts out.

A good investigation can help sort things out.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
I have very little exspearince,

With cougars.

So I will fall back om your expertise.

Can cougars be dangerous.

Can a cougar attack a human.

Have cougars attacked humans

Have cougars inflected death or great bodily harm to humans.

Well wont bother with your silly questions, will say in the 40 years of following them have never felt threatened. Tell others that it is such a low percentage of anything happening that wouldnt worry about it, so many things are more dangerous, but you call that a red herring deflecting from subject which I disagree with. For example if some one climbs up a tree stand, and they have caused more injury and death to people then cougars have then say they fear personal safety when a cougar walks by ya i dont get it. They are not as much of a threat that you and others make up in your mind and try to instill that fear on to others.

There are many things and many activities that one can be injurie by or doing,

Some happen far more then others just by shear numbers.

I been told a lot over the years. I don't wear a seat belt because it well not happen to me. I driven X numbers of miles

I ridden a MC all my and never needed a helmet.

I never cut my self with a chain saw so I don't need chaps.

I don't use a safety harness because I never fell out of a tree stand.

I never had a problem so it is not a problem. Until is is a problem.

So you never been attacked by a cougar. So what to you tell those that have been attack.

What do you tell the families of those who have been killed by cougars.

I know don't worry it is a rare attack. I have never been attack you must have caused the attack. It is your fault.

What BS. cougars are dangerous animals. They should be treated with respect like other dangerous animals.

When they show signs of aggression they should be treated appropriately.

That can vary from leaving to driving them off to killing them.

Each situation is different.

People should not be told they are fuzzy, furry, forest critters. That well do no one harm.

No one said they should be shot on sight just because.

I have no problems with someone killing any animal that posses a threat to the persons well being.

Doesn't bother me a bit when some critter gets kills causing problems or about to cause a problem.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
There are many things and many activities that one can be injurie by or doing,

Some happen far more then others just by shear numbers.

I been told a lot over the years. I don't wear a seat belt because it well not happen to me. I driven X numbers of miles

I ridden a MC all my and never needed a helmet.

I never cut my self with a chain saw so I don't need chaps.

I don't use a safety harness because I never fell out of a tree stand.

I never had a problem so it is not a problem. Until is is a problem.

So you never been attacked by a cougar. So what to you tell those that have been attack.

What do you tell the families of those who have been killed by cougars.

I know don't worry it is a rare attack. I have never been attack you must have caused the attack. It is your fault.

What BS. cougars are dangerous animals. They should be treated with respect like other dangerous animals.

When they show signs of aggression they should be treated appropriately.

That can vary from leaving to driving them off to killing them.

Each situation is different.

People should not be told they are fuzzy, furry, forest critters. That well do no one harm.

No one said they should be shot on sight just because.

I have no problems with someone killing any animal that posses a threat to the persons well being.

Doesn't bother me a bit when some critter gets kills causing problems or about to cause a problem.

And thats why I didnt answer any of your questions in other post for you just rant on making things up. I didnt say anything like you posted. Remember your the one that said had little experience. Best thing if you fear something so much dont put your self out there. Every thing should be treated with respect, heck people are hurt by deer, pets livestock etc etc and the worst one of all is other humans.