The three B's. Bears, Bison, Boulders. Which one is the most dangerous?

BEARS:

Bears sometimes will attack. Especially the sows with cubs. The incidence is very low but they can and do happen. And there is no lack of advice about what to do if attacked. How good is it and how complete?

Grizzly's usually run but if they do attack the conventional wisdom is to play dead. However, is a black bear attacks unprovoked or if any bear attacks at night it is to be assumed that it is doing so with the intention of eating you because it is hungry. Thus, you fight as vigorously as possible with anything handy. Do you know what to do and when to do it.

Defense. If you hold your arm out crosswise the bear will bite it. If you hold it vertically, doubled at the elbow, he cannot open his mouth wide enough to get a bite. Pepper spray is becoming popular. But what about a good knife? How about carrying a hatchet. As he rushes you, sidestep and give him a good chop in the head! How about carrying a sidearm, if legal? If you go into high country it pays to be prepared with all options.

BISON:

They may look docile in Yellowstone Park but get too close and see what happens. Bison and Elk gore tourists every year. Here is a comical video clip taken by a tourist of a man getting gored and flipped up into a tree. The camera was not properly adjusted which accounts for the pink coloration. But the power of a Bison is just awesome! He flipped the man 15 or 20' up the tree with apparent ease like flicking a fly. Note how the bison dipped his head low to get good leverage. And how fast and agile the Bison is. The camera speed may be fast but so is the Bison. Bull cattle may not be able to handle a grizzly but a bull Bison will.

http://www.nps.gov/yell/kidstuff/testknow/images/bisongor.htm

BOULDERS:

Who would ever think that a boulder would be a danger in high country? But here is a dreadful story that appeared some time back in the Pinedale , Wyoming news.

Lost hiker's body found near Browns Cliffs
Journal entries chronicle hiker's last days while trapped between boulders
By Yasmin Braban
Roundup Reporter
The Fremont County Sheriff's Office has confirmed that the body found on Monday, Aug. 31, is that of Presbyterian minister Mike Turner.
A hiker found the remains in the Browns Cliffs area of the Fitzpatrick Wildemess, about 25 miles from Elkhart Park where Turner started his journey on July 30. Personal effects and the wallet found near the body indicated it was Turner.
Turner, 48, of Caldwell, Idaho, became trapped when a large rock shifted while he was walking across a boulder field, causing his legs to be trapped between two boulders, on the third day of his hike, according to the Associated Press. Unable to free himself using a camera tripod, he wrapped himself in extra clothing and his tent for warmth, and prepared meals from his backpack using nearby fuel, matches and a single-burner stove. At an elevation of 11,500 feet, Tumer melted snow to obtain liquid then tried to free a bottle of water from a rock crevice with a pair of pliers. Pinned by his legs, Turner was unable to reach water, although he was just 25 feet away from the lake's edge.
Near the body, in a Zip-Lock type plastic bag, Turner's journal was found. Turner had written personal notes to his family, and he had made a conscious effort to protect the joumal. Entries from Turner's jounal indicated that he became trapped during the afternoon of Aug. 2, and he doubted if rescue teams would find him, as he had deviated from his originally planned route, according to the Associated Press.
Turner also wrote that Andy, his labrador-mix dog, had spent a long time lying on a ledge above him. Andy was found by backpackers on Aug. 28, 17 miles east of Elkhart Park and the dog's backpack and flea collar were found among the boulders near Turner's body. The body is currently in the custody of the Fremont County Coroner in Riverton. Fremont County Coroner Larry Lee said Wednesday that following the autopsy and a review of Turner's journal, Lee determined that Turner was trapped on Aug. 2 and died on/or about Aug. 11 of exposure to the elements: hypothermia and dehydration.

So many people have expressed their heartwarming thoughts and concern during the search for Mike and worked together to try to find him. We want to thank all the hikers and backpackers who provided information to the searchers, to all the callers who have inquired about the progress of the search, to the local authorities and Search & Rescue volunteers who tirelessly pursued even the slightest hint of a lead, and to the family and friends of Mike who never gave up hope.
"We would like to thank all the hikers, Forest Service, Sheriff's Office, and of course the Search and Rescue team for all their efforts. We have felt surrounded by so much love, concern and tenderness from everyone in Sublette Co. we worked with including the businesses in town who provided so much support."
Diane Turner and family

Kendall Dace

Since I have had two close calls with grizzlies while hunting, one in Montana and one in Alaska, and have seen two hikers being carried out of Glacier NP, I personaly will not go hiking in the back country of those two parks.

I have a lot more faith in my .30-06 or .41 mag, as puny as they are for a bear gun, than I do in pepper spray or playing dead.

------------------
Ignorance is curable, but stupidity is terminal.

As with any sport back country hiking can lead to death. I belive in carrying a firearm for protection. Those who travel alone are at a much greater risk if something happens I prefer to travel with a partner. I also leave a detailed plan with some body so if I am late they have a good idea where to look. This would not be a good way to die.

To date, I have lost 6 friends to avalanches, mostly snow. Many more around this area have died from mishap while in the mountains.

Although I have been had bears bluff charge, act aggresive, and have to be scared away, I have yet to need to shoot a bear in defense, or even use pepper spray. Call it good luck or being aware. Of course I see many more blacks than grizzlies, but I am no stranger to them either.

I wouldn't be stupid enough to invade the space of a bull elk or bison.

I'd say dying of exposure, avalanche, rockslide, slipping into a river or whatever are greater than animal attack.

If you want a good read about bear attacks/defense, read Gary Shelton's books. His stuff is bang on, in my opinion.

My guess is pepper spray is
a) More effective than your fists or knife.
b) more effective than the rifle you left in the truck because you were just going fo ra short walk.
c) More effective for people who are unfamiliar with firearms
d) Not as effective as a big ass rifle with heavy bullets IN THE HANDS OF A MAN OR WOMAN THAT KNOWS HOW TO USE IT, AND KEEP COOL.

A BC man a few years ago stabbed a grizzly to death as it was on top of him. he got pretty chewed up though. My advice is to keep your distance, using a gun or spray- a hatchet or knife is last ditch.

Surprising as it may sound, young bears also drown when they cross rivers following their mother. So nothing is immortal.

And animals perish in forest fires started by lightning.

Many deer, elk, bison die over winter from starvation due to deep snow covering.

But the wolves seem to fare well. Very resourceful. The herbivores perish in the snow but the carnivores thrive from the bad fortunes of the herbivores.

And the omnivores, bears, just go to sleep and don't eat for months subsisting on body fat. But dead bears have been found around some of the fume and steam vents in Yellowstone overcome by deadly gases that vent from the underlying magma.

The high country and back country can be a perilous place for everyone and everything if they are not prepared for eventualities.

Kendall Dace

Yellowstone's grizzly bears benefitting from squirrels' and wolves' hard work
Bears cleaning up wolf kills and raiding squirrels' caches of whitebark pine seeds

By Shelli Johnson

Yellowstone's grizzly bear population is doing well, says Kerry Gunther, who has been the Bear Management Specialist in the park for the last 18 years. Gunther says that over the past three years, the population has met the recovery criteria necessary for de-listing. In 1975, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service listed the grizzly as a threatened species in the lower 48 states. Gunther says the Greater Yellowstone grizzly bear population numbers 280-610 animals.

2000 was a good year with only two minor bear-related injuries
Last year was a good one for grizzlies inside Yellowstone, Gunther says. There were few conflicts and only two minor bear-related injuries to humans.

Both injuries occurred in the backcountry. One case involved a hiker who encountered a grizzly bear. "The hiker fell to the ground and played dead," he says. "The bear bit the hiker�s hand and then left the area." The other case involved a horsepacker who was sitting under a tree eating his lunch. "The guy got slapped and his head hit a tree," says Gunther. After using bear spray on the grizzly, the bear left.

Grizzly bears' diet changes with the season
The grizzly bears spent the spring eating mostly vegetation. Because last winter was so mild, there were few winterkilled ungulates on which to feed.

During June the bears preyed on elk calves.

"When elk calves are real young, they remain hidden," explains the bear management specialist. "Bears will just zig-zag and bird-dog through the sagebrush before pouncing on them and eating them.

"Or sometimes a bear will hide at the edge of tree cover and run out at elk calves near the edge before ambushing one of them," says Gunther.

Some bears also inhabit areas near cutthroat trout spawning areas. Gunther says a recent research study indicated that 84 individual grizzly bears used that resource for part of their diet.

By the end of June, bears shift from eating elk calves to eating army cutworm moths and roots. Often they�ll pick up rock after rock and consume handfuls of moths found underneath.

Come early September, grizzlies eat whitebark pine seeds. Last year was a poor whitebark pine production year, Gunther says, but the grizzlies were able to feed on the leftovers from the previous year. Early indications reveal the whitebark pine crop will not be good this year.

Usually by late summer or early fall, grizzlies start digging and raiding whitebark pine cones that squirrels have been busy caching.

"Squirrels cache the cones and then there are these big piles under the trees,� explains Gunther. "The grizzlies eat the seeds found in the cones."

Sometimes the bears actually get the cones on their own by climbing trees, but not often.

If whitebark pine production is low, grizzlies spend most of their fall fattening up on yampa, licorice and biscuit root. "They have to work a lot harder to get the same amount of nourishment from roots when whitebark pine seeds are not plentiful," says Gunther.

Another food source for Yellowstone's grizzlies is thanks to the wolf population. The wolves, whose primary food source is elk, take down the ungulates on a regular basis. Seldom do they eat the entire carcass.

According to David Bopp, manager of the Northern Yellowstone Field Station for Yellowstone Ecosystem Studies (YES), an organization that has conducted canid research in the park for over a decade, other animals are enjoying the increased food.

"An average wolf can eat about 20 pounds of meat per sitting," says Bopp. "Their average pack size is six to 12 animals. That means there�s a lot of meat left over. Sometimes there can be over 600 pounds of meat remaining."

Bopp says as soon as the wolves get full, they wander off and often won�t guard the carcass. Frequently, a grizzly bear will descend on the carcass and eat what's left.

"Bears are probably benefiting from the wolves' presence," says Gunther. "There are more carcasses available, at least to adult male grizzlies and females without cubs.

"And, due to the wolves, carrion is more available all through the summer," he explains. "Prior to wolf restoration, feeding on carrion used to be just a spring thing for grizzlies."

Gunther says while adult male and large female grizzlies without cubs appear to be pretty successful at taking kills away from wolves, females with cubs are not likely to attempt to take a carcass away from wolves, because their cubs will risk losing their lives to the canid.

Remain near vehicle when viewing bears
Bear sightings in Yellowstone have become more common in recent years.

"A lot of people in their excitement approach these bears too closely," cautions Gunther. "These bears are still wild and can potentially be dangerous."

Gunther says visitors should use a pullout and remain in or right next to their car.

Visitors who enjoy hiking are urged to not go hiking alone in Yellowstone's backcountry.

"We recommend that people hike in groups of three or more," says Gunther.

He added that backcountry enthusiasts should make lots of noise and avoid potential encounters with grizzly bears, particularly when bears are feeding on a carcass or are protecting their young.

Many wildlife biologists encourage backcountry enthusiasts to take along some pepper spray. Gunther says bear spray has been used several times in Yellowstone and has been effective. The key is to have it readily available and know how to use it.
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Kendall Dace

Carelessness, lack of preparation/skill/experience, and arrogance ("invincible" attitude) are the biggest killers in the high country... in other words, be prepared and keep an eye on the weather! The rest of the stuff you mention is WAY down on the list.

Brad

"There are old mountaineers and there are bold mountaineers, but there are few old-bold mountaineers."

Here is a good one to look at, William E. Tibbe:

http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/brownbears/century.htm

It only relates to Alaska's bear/human confrontations, but it is very informative.

Here's a good site on pepper spray:
http://www.udap.com

Search and Rescue personnel and mountaineers often refer to "The Ten Essentials" as the minimum to have on any backcountry trip. here's one such list:
http://www.tacoma.washington.edu/css/tmru/Safety/TenEssentials.html

Chris

Thanks Roughriders, for the links and comments.

I looked all of them over. Good information.

The Pepper spray link referred to one bear attack that was mentioned in the preceding article about the horsepacker that sat down for lunch and was slapped by a grizzly. It sounded comical at first blush but it was a little bit more involved than the article alluded to.

Salient features that are to be noted are that there are distinct differences between a sow with cubs attack and a boar attack related to going after food.

1. The sow is ferocious, no nonsense, aims to maim, disable the threat to her little ones ASAP. Nothing indecisive there.

2. A boar, or food enticed bear, seems a little less likely to push a violent attack albeit not lacking in determination once his mind is made up.

The Alaska bear slideshow illustrated the 3 different species of bears, black, grizzly/brown and polar. Again distinct behavior differences between the three types of bears.

As regards the "10 essentials" list, I would have a little longer list. That may be generic and applicable to hikers and mountain climbers. But it is short of adequate for skiers and hunters.

I would add a communications device. If you are alone it is absolutely vital no matter what the cost. Here are some what if's!

1. You are skiing and get caught in an avalanche? Or even buried alive.( This did happen )
2. Your bush pilot flies too close to Mt. Mckinley ( Denali ) and a strong downdraft pulls your airplane down which crashes. ( This did happen )?
3. A boulder rolls onto your legs and you are trapped? ( This did happen ).
4. A bear disables you and you are bleeding profusely or have broken bones ( This did happen ).

The device I would add would be the "beeper" type that sends out a "locator signal". A stove would be nice also when you are either above tree line ( no fuel ) or in deep snow ). To melt snow or keep warm.

And how about some attention attracting devices such as flags, rolls of florescent ribbon or tape, smoke bombs, flares. To attract aerial searchers.

A pocket knife is a little bit small for me. A big bowie would be more suitable. When you stab a bear you won't reach his vitals with a short blade. And chopping branches, limbs and firewood isn't easy with a pocket knife.

Regards;

Kendall Dace

A regular cause of accidents leading to death in the swedish mountains is fording rivers.
Especially newcommers to this enviroment don't realize the enormous power of water moving at speed. Not until to late that is.

While hunting in the mountains the potental for calamity was immediatly apparent to me. I stayed alert and aware. Slipping on tree trunks hidden in grass, or crossing debree fields helps hammer home how easy it would be to injure yourself and how hard it would be to get out.

I'd say boulders are the most dangerous; you can turn a bear or bison charge with a gun. Boulders just keep on coming.

George

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Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!

George,

I'd wonder if the 1.008 Vincent would be a good boulder turner? Maybe we could start a new topic? "What's the best boulder stopper?" As long as those 45-70 boys don't start in again! LOL!

Balou:

Drownings in whitewater rivers fed by snow melt undoubtedly will be due to hypothermia, paralysis, ( water temperature near freezing ) and being propelled into rocks. A life jacket may help. 30 minutes would probably be the life endurance maximum.

EPIRBs

Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacons
An EPIRB is a small, self contained, battery-operated radio transmitter which is both watertight and buoyant. It's purpose is to assist authorities to locate survivors during search and rescue operations.
Once activated, an EPIRB transmits a distinctive signal which can be detected and located by aircraft and satellites.
An EPIRB should not be regarded as a means of making an initial distress call. It should be carried as a supplement to an approved transceiver * ( on aircraft ), not as a replacement.
Only approved EPIRBs should be carried.
Remember to check the batteries expiry date and test switch regularly

EPIRBS transmit on 121.5 MHz Civilian and 243.0 MHz Military search and rescue frequencies. The signals can be detected by aircraft and COSPAS/SARSAT satellite systems. They cost from $370 ( Class B Handheld ) to over $2,200.

Winter Equipment Lists
DAY SKI TOURS
The EMERGENCY KIT, one in each party.
Skis, shoes, poles and rucksack suitable for the tour.

A warm hat, mitts, socks, pants, and a jacket, all made of materials that stay warm when wet. Thin layers of pile or poly pro are best.

Gaitors, leggings or overboots.
Lunch, with a little extra for emergencies. Foam sitting Pad.
A full water bottle (a full hot beverage bottle is nice).
Sunglasses which are UV proof. Sun hat, gloves, cotton shirt and bandana.
Wind and sun screen, lip salve; apply copiously.
Toilet paper (escape novel), 16 hour candle, and matches in a Zip lock bag.
LATRINES MUST BE 100 YARDS FROM ALL WATER AND DOWNHILL FROM ALL CAMPS, BURN ALL PAPER!
Everyone should have a digging tool: a shovel, pruning saw, ice ax, even a cooking pot ...

Pocket knife with a can opener and corkscrew, ski wax, 24 hr flash light, camera ...

SNOW CAMPING LIST

The day tour list with a minimal amount of extra clothing: socks, warm jacket ...
Large internal frame pack with a good waist belt.

Sleeping bag, polarguard or other synthetic is best, close cell foam sleeping pad.
Polarguard booties, mukluks are useful. No slip soles are essential.
Spoon and bowl, insulated cup.

COMMUNITY GEAR: Emergency kit, tents, pots, food, stove, fuel, fire pan, Iditarod cooker ...

EMERGENCY KIT, ONE PER GROUP!
REMEMBER! The function of any emergency kit is to enable you to repair equipment, give first aid and/or bivouac until help arrives. Travel light and fast but don't forget anything. Stay mobile. If you carry everything you might possibly need you will never get into trouble: Your kit will be so heavy you will not be able to carry it anywhere! The contents of this list are the result of 25 years of Ski Touring tours and courses.

In steep terrain climbing skins are essential. Travelers in avalanche country must carry rescue beacons, probe poles and shovels. Ice axes and a light rope are essential for some tours. Kit contents are worthless without the skills to use them.

"EMERGENCY FIRST AID" by Darvell, lists supplies and drugs. This small book fits easily into the kit.
Pencil and paper to record details in this litigant age.
Band-Aids, telfa compress, wire splint, ace bandages, suture strips, tweezers, razor blade.
Tape and mole skin for the telemark heel. Spenco Second Skin is excellent.
Water proof matches, candles, butane lighter in a sealed plastic bag. Whistle, signal flares, signal mirror, 24 hour flashlight, extra bulb and batteries.
Chouinard expedition sewing kit, safety pins, fish hooks with 3# leader.
Emergency food: gorp, dextrose tabs, junk food, dog food? antacid, Advil, cough drops, tea and a small pot ...
Space blankets and X-large leaf bags.
Three pin binding with extra bails, baskets and spare ski tip.
Small vice grips, hack saw blade, slot and #3 pozidrive Screw drivers.
Duct tape, strapping tape, wire and epoxy putty. A cordellet: 50' of light weight rope.
Steel Wool to use with Epoxy on loose screws, Maxglide packet.
Misc. screws, including oversize binding screws, 3-pin toe plates, nails and dot rivets.
100' red nylon cord. Metal scraper with holes drilled into it (ski splint)
Repair material for your stove and tents. Tents should have bungeed guys and dead person loops.
Navigation/avalanche gear - Map, compass, altimeter, the pit kit: thermometer, inclinometer, magnifying glass, pit book and card.

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Other posters - thanks buckaroos for the levity. Livens the place up.

Kendall Dace

Big Bores, oh behave!

I've fired .375H&H, .458WinMag, and .470 Capstick solids into the boulders at my range; the best I could do was break off pieces.

I fired a .950JDJ (.95 caliber, 2800gr bullet at I-don't-remember-what velocity) at a boulder on a friend's farm in Ohio; three shots broke it into large chunks). We used a Browning M1919A4 7.62 MG to reduce it to pea gravel

George

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Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!

George,

My hero! LOL. 950JDJ, now that sounds like fun! Can I come shoot it next time I'm in Ohio?

Just 50 posts away from my CD!LOL.

The site on bears I posted above also has a study on pepper spray. Sometimes it works, but sometimes it doesn't; all depends on the bear, I guess.

I wonder if anybody has tried to use pepper spray when is -10 degrees below zero? Well...I imagine one could always throw the frozen can of pepper spray at the bear, right?

I have always thought something like this would be the perfect anti-bear device:

http://www.zianet.com/paulsplans/page4.htm

Ya know, I bet it would work on Black, Browns, or Grizzly's....

Ray:

Actually the ABSC-USGS site has numerous articles about RPS ( res pepper spray )

http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/brownbears/pepperspray/rpsinfo.htm

A can of RPS in sub-zero weather will spray anywhere from "a little dribble of goo" out the spout to reduced range. However, if you encounter a grizzly or black bear out in -10 degree weather something is very much wrong! He may be a polar bear in disguise.

The amount of capsaicin ( C18H27NO3 ) * { that's the juicy stuff from the pepper - capsicum plant ) varies from 0.05% to 12% so it pays to look carefully at the label and know what you are buying.

The RPS is, according to reports, 94% effective and it undoubtedly does work and reduce injuries. It also attracts bears if indiscriminately sprayed around camp so if you don't have a bear problem, you will if you spray it on the ground.

Incidentally, Canadian Border Patrol confiscates American made RPS!! But Canadian made PRS can be used in Canada!

MARK WHITE:

Man, that's a roaster. You could cook a bear and have it for supper. I also liked the cannon on the other page!

Kendall Dace

As far as survival kit goes, just a few observations on equipment based on tests carried out with in our unit in typical British mountain weather i.e cold, wet and windy:

1) Seeking shelter from the elements often leads to difficulty in being seen by rescuers. Carry one of those strobe lights... this can be left in the open whilst you seek shelter. They are very, very effective if used correctly.
2) Carry a plastic pea-less whistle, the louder the better...again it helps rescuers locate you.
3) A credit card sized double sided plastic/metal signal mirror is also well worth carrying and takes up little space. Practice how to use before hand as there is a certain amount of technique needed for the best results.
4) Lifeboat/Survival matches�The matches themselves are pretty good but they are generally not "strike anywhere"� The striker surface is often on the outside of the waterproof container, and in our tests, on most brands, the striker surface turned out not to be waterproof�.they literally dissolved in the wet when we tried to use them.
5) Bic style Butane lighters worked very well in the field although need to be stored near to the body in cold weather to stop them getting sluggish. Zippo's were disappointing as they tended to "dry up" after being stored any length of time.
6) The biggest disappointment and potentially the most dangerous is the so-called space blanket. Despite the advertising hype, these turned out to be nearly useless in real world bad weather field conditions. The blanket design itself is not very efficient when worn as a "shawl" as they did not keep the rain or wind at bay. If used to make some sort of "tent" it ripped in only moderate winds. The reflective properties were found to be pretty much hype in these conditions. In cold wet windy weather, more heat is lost through convection and conduction than through "radiation". It was found that plain plastic of a similar gauge worked just as well (or badly) when worn as a shawl. The slightly heavier duty plastic bright orange bivvy sacks were found to offer far better protection. These can be bought with a silvered insides if you really think it is worth while. The import thing is knowing how to use them. First rip a small hole in one corner of the bag. Next put on any spare dry clothing you may have and then pull the bag down over your head until it reaches your feet. Sit down on something insulating if possible and put your feet into your rucksack for added warmth. The small hope you rip should now be more or less opposite your face for ventilation. If you have a tin mug or mess tin a small candle can now be lighted inside this shelter. By sitting not lying, you minimise heat loss to the ground by conduction. As the bag is over your head you also minimise heat loss from convection too and there is little chance of the wind tearing up the bag.

The main thing we found was not to rely on what anybody else (such as me!) has written or says. Trial your equipment & techniques yourself in the field under realistic conditions and see if it works for you! For instance, if you think what I say about space blankets is rubbish, wait until it's a wet and windy night and try sitting in your yard using one as protection. Then drive out and repeat in a nearby forest or park. How does it perform?? Would it work in a gale on a mountain top? While your at it try lighting a fire�.A lot of stuff in the survival manuals is great in long term situations but may not be effective if your stuck on a mountain on a wet and windy night with a twisted ankle.

[This message has been edited by Pete E (edited 08-08-2001).]

The old .30-06 splits boulders pretty good when loaded with armor piercing projectiles.
Since mine are now long gone, does anyone know where I can get some more?
I want to see how many engine blocks they will go through.

------------------
Ignorance is curable, but stupidity is terminal.

Instead of matches, always pack a couple of "electronic" type disposable lighters.
Have a small daypack in your vehicle, a few items you may consider packing: Chemlights, two flashlights, spare batteries, a strobe, two compasses, TP, 100 ft. 550 cord, a swiss army knife, a 9" blade, a plastic jar of peanut butter, a multi-purpose tool (Leatherman,etc.)HD plastic bags, magic marker, an orange panel, lightweight polyester blanket, duct tape,alchohol wipes,Q-tips, kotex pads, super glue, spare socks, sewing kit, a water filter, and a collapseble 2qt. water bottle, and a 22lr semi-auto pistol.
Expended shell casings make very loud whistles, open unexpended casings for gunpowder to light fires.
I always wear a pistol when camping for varmits and such.

Pete E.

Thanks for the interesting comments and observations.

Space blankets are, of course, very light weight, emergency blankets only weighing 2 to 3 ounces and measuring 5'x7'. The various scenarios that you described would be expected to take the blankets to their limitations.

Needless to say, there are many and varied space blankets offered in the market place. The high end would be coated with very specific materials, coated on BOTH sides and have metallic reflecting qualities.

High country in winter would be cold, below freezing, thus some of the shortfalls pertaining to blankets and matches could be different than cold, damp, wet, windy conditions.

Digging snow caves and/or building "lean to" shelters/wind breaks with tree branches would be the "norm" when stranded.

I found your explanation about using bags and candles very interesting. The Canadian Royal Mounted Police survival training teaches that just lighting one candle in a stranded automobile, in winter, will prevent the passenger(s) from freezing to death. I know Canadians who always carry a complete survival kit in the automobile when travelling in the winter. One individual was driving one of the North South intermountain roads in a valley West of Calgary, in the Canadian Rockies. It was snowing so fast and hard that be began pushing snow with the front bumper and finally the car vehicle just didn't have enough power to keep moving. He sat in the road 2 days waiting for a snow plow.

Ol' Sarge:

I think your, and other, comments seem to infer that if a person was trapped by a boulder he could try shooting it to split it. Hmmmmm!

To satisfy your hankering for armor piercing ammo you may try this site:

http://www.nwls.bigstep.com/

TomA:

As I was going over your list I came to the kotex pads and then the speculation began.

The travelling companion is a girl?
The hiker/hunter is a girl?
The list is for a boy but he has a use for them other than the conventional intended application? But what?
They are for his horse? ( A mare )?

OK I give up! WHAT! This better be good.

Kendall Dace.

Kendall,

I'm always amazed at what temps you guys hunt in...in most places in the UK, the temp rarely drops to less than -5C although that is cold enough when you factor in wind chill and the wet. Compound that with tiredness, hunger lack of proper equipment & training add our short winter days, then you have the perfect recipe for hypothermia. Most serious backpackers and walkers are usually well prepared, it is those people who only intend being out for an hour or two and carry no extra kit who get into trouble�hunters seem to be pretty bad in this respect!. My own approach is a layer system which starts with my key ring which has a whistle, a mini buck, and a flint on it My wallet contains a few extra items such a signal mirror, a roast bag (for boiling water) ect. My winter coat will have a butane lighter, my bivvy bag , an LED torch/strobe plus a few other bits. If I'm hunting/hiking I'll have a survival kit on my belt, and finally of course if needed, I'll have my backpack with the serious winter gear in it. The point, is unless I'm naked, I aim to have the very basics with me.

Even in our relatively mild climate it is still possible to get stranded by blizzards�in many cases it is not the absolute snowfall which is the problem, but the drifting snow. When I was a kid, we got stranded in a coach in this manner for about 8 hours, so I have always been very aware of the dangers. As suggested, I also add a few extra items to the 4x4 for winter travel, chief of which are a couple of cheap sleeping bags and a small stove/brew kit.

I remember reading an article in American Survival last year singing the praises of keeping a pair of snow shoes in the car. It seems in one State many people were stranded in their cars by freak snow storms and what would have been a relatively easy walk out with snow shoes was virtually impossible with out. Another tip for off-roaders or snow mobilers which I have not tried but which sounds pretty good, is to carry some of those roadside flares for use as fire starters. In some conditions which you need a fire, you need one now and there is no time to mess with strike-a-lights and tinder.

Regards,

Pete

I suspect the kotex pads are used as wound dressing as they take up so much blood�.also perhaps for tinder???

My guess is Pete E. got it right. Stick a kotex pad on a big bleeding cut, wrap it with sometape, and you've gota decent compression pad, that'll soak up the blood.

I'm a Canadian, and as you suggested, I have some survival/rescue gear in my truck all the time. When you drive great distances with little traffic, or in winter when the weather is unpredictable, this stuff can make your life alot more comfy- or even save your ass. So it's a good idea.

Those light days are very compact highly absorbant sterile bandages that can be glued and taped into place and don't need to be changed, since they don't stick to the wound itself, super glue stings like heck but will replace stitches. As for the electronic ignition disposable lighters; they can be fully immersed in water, blown dry with a few breaths and still will light. Polyester blankets keep their insulation value even when wet.
When looking for emergancy shelter, under an overhanging tree is the best place, dig down to dry eath if posibble, there you should be able to recover dry tender for starting a fire. Inside bark on fallen trees peel the bark and then peel the inner bark which should be dry. Improvised snow shoes can be made from fir or pine limbs, tie the small ends of two simular sized limbs together end to end. Bend the limbs around and tie the thick trunks side by side, then stip the outside bows off. Interlace the inner bows together and use the stipped bows as the verticle lacings of the weave. There is a readily available book on the market called the SAS Survival Manual that all of us SF & Ranger types all have and read, also there is a Ranger Survival Manual available from Palladin Press. If any of you are in the military at Clothing and Sales there is a book published as Ranger Tricks of the Trade, which may be available through Ranger Joe's or Brigade QuarterMasters.
Something that hasn't been mentioned yet and for those of us that are paranoid and think someone is following us in the field or trail, clover leaf your trail, or zigzag your direction of movement. When you camp for the night move a hundred yards off the trail and pitch camp out of view of the trail. Pitch your camp in a clump of brush or hollow.