quote:

Originally posted by MC:
I like the elk. I am just sick of raising something I can not use and spending my money to do it. The DWR, if I complained loud enough, probably would give antlerless tags to the general public, but with today's liability problems and the thought of 50 strangers hunting our ranch scares me more than the elk.

To me, that is the most disturbing bit on this thread. Is my interpretation correct, that if antlerless tags were available, you would still not allow public hunting? If that is what you are saying, then you have no right to complain about the elk, especially on a hunting forum. Antlerless tags are the best way to control populations, plus it give many hunters a chance to enjoy the animals and the land. Without a place to hunt, lots of people will quit hunting, then we are screwed. Sorry if I misinterpreted your statement, or put words in your mouth. It sounds like someone saying "I don't want the elk problem, but I don't want the Great Unwashed solving my problem for free."

Ducks, in this case the antelope lost.And you're whining.
Wap. I guess you know all the 'facts' here. Found em on line from your mother's basement. One can tell from your attitude you've never owned anything real and never will. Too bad losers like you can vote. You will eventually californicate New Mexico too. Wildlife is constantly eating/tramping this guys livelihood and he's a whiner. Looks to me like he did a bit more than talk which is a lot more than you. Get off your ass and get the fish cops to do their job.
The only mistake this guy made was not having a dozen friends there with mini 14's. Until ranchers stand up to the state they will continue to feed the overpopulation of herd wildlife. 'nuff, Mark

quote:

To me, that is the most disturbing bit on this thread. Is my interpretation correct, that if antlerless tags were available, you would still not allow public hunting? If that is what you are saying, then you have no right to complain about the elk, especially on a hunting forum. Antlerless tags are the best way to control populations, plus it give many hunters a chance to enjoy the animals and the land. Without a place to hunt, lots of people will quit hunting, then we are screwed.

+1

My sentiments exactly.

quote:

Originally posted by Hunt-ducks:

SK all the animals I have displaced got ate.

Ok,........well,........no.

Wapiti7 said "Unless ya'll know the ins and outs of the situation, I don't think you can make judgements." Mister you describe me to a "T" and I should have known better that to post on a situation I know nothing about!

Best regards Gentlemen!

105,I would agree with your statement, however do you allow people to come and go from your property at will, unsupervised. There is a liability issue. If some moron crashes his hummer, shoots his partner because he stepped in a rut,or otherwise causes himself or others harm, the first one named in the suit is the landowner, for several reasons. Reason 1 is that he actually owns something worth suing for. Even if a waiver is signed it can and will be construed that the landowner knew there were hidden dangers hence wanted a waiver. At our Sk. place things are different. The onus is on the hunter to be aware of dangers. We allow unlimited access to land there. In Mt. we require a waiver as well as hunting on foot with written consent to trespass. In both places the # of hunters declines every year and the deer/antelope population increases.
I have problems with the way the fish cops handled this. They have access to aircraft and helicopters to enforce the game laws. Why were these not used to drive antelope 30 miles back into grassland. This guy's crop was the only green for miles. Only perfectly maintained high fence will keep out antelope. Why should ranchers pay to control public property. If there were deer or black bears in a yard in Sante Fe and the homeowner phoned the cops would be there in 5 min. with a TV crew. It seems from what is written here that this fellow tried to get the problem resolved by beaurocrats and they made a feeble attempt and then told him 'you're on your own now bud'. I don't particularly care for the methods used, but I would have been shooting as well, and the video guy may have had some trouble as well. Mark

35404

All I know is that your ego and lack of self esteem are contributing to your ignorant comments. You are a disgrace to hunters.

Jtex and BJ- Maybe you guys do not fully understand the reality of the world in which we live today. Let me give you an example:

Our friend owns a large piece of property in the Mountains of central Utah. He has allowed the public access for years and people have traveled through his property to access forest lands which surrounds his place. So 5 years ago some kid takes his girl friend and rolls the Jeep on my friends property. The girl's family sues our friend and costs him close to $100,000 in legal fees to defend himself and get the case dismissed. It is called liability. Now the man, with the support of the Forest Service, has placed gates and locked the access. Liability and a litigious society do not go well with allowing public access.

Now you guys expect landowners to just open their property to each and every person who holds a tag for that unit? People you do not know, that you have ever met? You want them hunting near your cabin or barn? You want them hunting near your kids as they play outside or hunting your ranch when you are not there? Do you let them camp on your place? Do you let everyone with a tag on to hunt in your herd of cows?

If you answer yes to any of the above questions then you would be willing to share a hunting camp with EVERY hunter you have ever seen or met. You are willing to hunt with the drunk, or the poacher, or the guy who mishandles his guns. Even the guy who litters and the guy who drives off-road.

I can't do a back ground check and interview every hunter who has a tag. We do allow friends and family, even a few paying customers on. We do special needs hunts, free of charge to those who have disabilities.

We have run the elk off our place so the neighbors can kill some. We have run the elk off to public property the last time there was an antlerless hunt. The problem is no matter who much we harass them, they always come back in short time.

I guess if my comments and my reasons are the most disturbing part of this thread, then so be it. I'll stick with maiming animals and threatening to kill a man as the most disturbing part of this thread.

quote:

35404

All I know is that your ego and lack of self esteem are contributing to your ignorant comments. You are a disgrace to hunters.

WELL SAID.

You don't even know me to make assumptions like you have shows your truely ignorant just because I live in Ca.

hunt-ducks,
Its really too bad that you have such a bad state to live in (politically). I personally like cali. Great food and beautiful scenery. You are welcome here in NM. I feel bad for the hunters and fisherman out there, ya'll really have a huge battle just to exist.

MC, I understand liability. When we used to lease our place out to hunters I would have them sign a waiver of liability. I really means nothing except that at the time of the signing the hunter waive his right to litigation against the landowner. They will still sue if they get the mind to.

and no we don't allow public access either and won't in the foreseeable future. We also don't have a deer problem either. We don't have cattle or any kind of crop for them to destroy. We do have hogs, which, we kill on sight. So I understand the nuisance aspect as well.

The main disagreement I have with Neal Trujillo is his method. If you're going to kill an animal then do it right. There are times to slaughter, times to put an animal down and times to just plain kill it. Do it right. With hogs we put a bullet in them if we can but a bona fide attempt to follow up and finish the pig is always made. It's just the right thing to do. As others have said and as I have agreed, there must be more to the story.

People who own property have either worked very hard to earn it or have been fortunate enough to inherit it. Either way it's a major job to hold on to it after you get it and I don't blame one single person for not allowing access if they are not so inclined. To those who do, Kudos. Unrestricted access is a dangerous business and they are a better men than I.

Alan

quote:

As others have said and as I have agreed, there must be more to the story.

I agree. It sounds like the DWF was not trying to help him after many attempts of him contacting them of his problem.

Cropland depredation is a problem all over the world and has to be dealt with accordingly. There are many areas in the states that issue hundreds of permits for folks to rid there farms of deer that destroy their crops and you don't see folks on here jumping up & down and moaning about it. Most of those deer are shot and left to rot.

Hogs are a really bad problem as well. Same thing, shot and left to rot.

Sounds like the antelope situation is very similar, but I could be wrong.

I do agree that he should have used a better method such as a rifle...

Have a Good One

Reloader

quote:

Most of those deer are shot and left to rot.

Not exactly.

I've killed several hundred deer over the years under Wisconsin's agricultrual damage deer control program. Every one of them went to good use, as per the law.

The ag tags simply grant permission to shoot deer with a rifle out of season. All other deer hunting regulations such as shooting hours, tagging, registration, legal weapons and waste of game are strictly enforced. The registration tag MUST have the name and phone number of the person who finally received the deer carcass. Intentionally failing to tag and recover a deer will earn a fine of at least $4000.

I've also done the kind of "work" on a Christmas tree farm in Michigan's UP. Same story, all laws regarding tagging and recovery are in effect. Later on MI ended out of season shooting of deer with a rifle. The ag tags were simply extra antlerless deer tags to be used during the regular gun and archery seasons.

At least here in this part of the Midwest if deer were killed and left to rot chances are the same thing would happen the the farmers livestock. His home and barn would probably mysteriously catch fire. I have to be careful and discreet (have received death threats) even though the deer are put to good use.

bigasanelk,

I've never taken part in the deer shoots, only hogs. I've heard from some that have, that in some states you are not allowed to touch the animals on depredation kills....


Have a Good One,

Reloader

I do believe that in NM that you have to leave them to rot.
It is an unfortunate situation, and a sad one, for the rancher, for the antelope and for us.
Even though I do believe in this govt I have not a lot of sympathy for their position.
On one of our Arizona ranches we have a parcel of private property that was in an area where they wanted to make a wilderness area.
They simply blocked it in, denied us legal access and said basically sue us.

The sad thing is that the stupid and slob hunters have made it tough for guys like me that would love to go somewhere like Co, NM, Utah, etc and gladly hunt the cow elk or antelope. It took me 4 years to get deer hunting rights on the land I hunt because of the last guy before me. The landowner found the guy "moving" the cattle out of his way with a shotgun. It was a total of 14 years before he let anyone hunt on his land again. The good news is that now he tells everyone I have it leased so he doesn't have to take the calls and I do all the screening and escorting for anyone I say yes to.

And yup, a couple years back I had an accident and broke my ankle while tracking a dder my daughter shot. Would I ever sue the landowner for it...not in this lifetime! Accidents happen.

I also understand the pest issue. When I did get access, there were literally hundreds of deer that needed thinning. It took years of thinning does with every tag I, and my family, could get to minimize the damage. Now the issue is the turkeys. They destroy quail and pheasant eggs, so they are now the pests. The coyotes will not touch them. I'm glad to do it, but it is not really "management".

quote:

hunt-ducks,
Its really too bad that you have such a bad state to live in (politically). I personally like cali. Great food and beautiful scenery. You are welcome here in NM. I feel bad for the hunters and fisherman out there, ya'll really have a huge battle just to exist.

[quote]hunt-ducks,

Wapiti7

I was born and raised here 60 yrs ago and have seen all the Natives die off or move out and the carpetbagger politicions move in, this state has really changed in the last 25 years for the worst, most people don't understand once you move away from the coast 30-40 miles you don't run into all the fruits and nuts that seem to drive this state towards the mommy state.

I have hunted NM and driven thru it a millon times you have a great hunting states there just wish you went to a point system for tags because my luck is very poor drawing there.

My oldest son was stationed there in Oryx country for 8 years.

Funny thing about people as long as its someone else that is suffering from depredation its OK..

Wheat is this mans livihood, it feeds his family, crap folks in town want them shot for eating their friggen flowers.

The Game Dept. should have come out and trapped them and moved them.

I don't like it but I don't blame him. Someone should have tried to subsidized his loss, they do in Idaho.

There is always two sides to these stories, but most folks are only interested in their own side.

Wapiti is right to a great extent. I have several good freinds, one of them a State Legislator, currently fighting this problem. With the drouth we are experiencing, the only green anywhere is on irrigated fields. Deer/antelope are coming from miles around to try to survive. NMDG&F uses their "computer models" to negate common sense and deny the landowner salable permits to allay the problem. The NMDG&F uses the Hunter's $4 Habitat Management fee to study snails and wolves instead of building/maintaining fences to solve the depradation problem. And "Buddy Bill" is off to Korea to his way into the national press instead of staying home and firing his self confessed criminal (game law violation) director of NMDG&F. Wapiti7 is correct when he says the Judge is probably related.