Long article but pretty interesting. I feel that this guy was pretty candid with his comments.

http://www.mtpioneer.com/2014-...lowstone-Expert.html

Less wolves means more deer and elk. Imagine that.

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:
Less wolves means more deer and elk. Imagine that.

How True!

Yeah, more deer, elk, moose, grouse, cows, sheep, happy pets, safe people exploring the woods. The question I have is, now that there is an over-abundance of wolves wreaking havoc on the hunting and Ag industries in the US, how has life changed for the pro wolf lobby? MN has 7000 more wolves than it did 20 years ago and none of those tree huggers has yet to see one outside the zoo fence. THEY have yet to be affected in either a negative or positive way. Are they comforted by the mere knowledge that a lethal predator has been treated fairly? I wonder if they feel Polio and Small-Pox were unjustly targeted? I see Malaria making a comeback in Africa. Do they find a sort of just satisfaction in that? It is a shame wolves don't hunt BS non-profits. Maybe...we could introduce wolves into downtown Boise, Minneapolis, Cheyenne, and Denver! Don't wolves have the right to hunt the parking ramp at Mall of America if they want to? I mean, if they belong, they belong.

quote:

Are they comforted by the mere knowledge that a lethal predator has been treated fairly?

The simple answer is YES. Wolf advocates get all warm and fuzzy just knowing they're out there. I'm no expert but there appears to be an anti-human (specifically anti white human) element at work here. Wolf huggers have an idealistic notion that this country was a perfect, balanced "Garden of Eden" before the evil white man came along and screwed everything up. (Maybe you've noticed that artwork and decor items with a wolf theme usually includes Indians.) This mindset belives that restoring the wolf, along with eliminating ranching, farming and mining - actually ALL human activities - will magically restore the Garden of Eden.

Wolf advocates will speak of a "balance of nature." As any hunter knows, "balance" is strictly a human concept. There is no balance in nature, everything works on boom and bust cycles.

The "huggers" sincerely belive that wolves take only weaker and less able prey, therefore strengthening the gene pool. (This is in contrast to the evil white humans, who only take the biggest and best.) Completly overlooked is the simple fact that there aren't very many defective prey animals born. Certainly not enough to sustain wolf packs. In reality, wolves are opportunistic predators, just like we are.

To those who are not affected by their presence, wolves are highly symbolic.

"Balance Of Nature"!!! Never happened/never will and it does not matter/did not matter whether there was a living human being on the planet. That will never change. Boom Or Bust cycles in all species was occurring long before humans became the dominant life form on Earth. The only effect humans have is to perpetuate or artificially inflate population numbers of the species that were of most interest. For hunters during the last 75 years or so the focus was on elk and white tail with other species taking the back seat. During the last 20 years, with hunter numbers declining and "Bunny Hugger' numbers increasing, the emphasis switched to wolves in particular.

I think it is great that there are Free Ranging wolves in North America. I think it will be better when those wolves are placed under realistic management programs under the jurisdiction of the states, not the Feds. The people most directly impacted by the reintroduction of wolves are the ones most informed about the effects/results of those reintroductions and they are the ones that should have the loudest voice in discussions concerning wolf management. JMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

I think it is great that there are Free Ranging wolves in North America. I think it will be better when those wolves are placed under realistic management programs under the jurisdiction of the states, not the Feds. The people most directly impacted by the reintroduction of wolves are the ones most informed about the effects/results of those reintroductions and they are the ones that should have the loudest voice in discussions concerning wolf management. JMO.

***You obviously don't read and keep up on things before posting! FYI the Feds already delisted them from the ESA within the last two years where they are prominent, including in Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho, as well as the Great Lakes states. Each individual state IS managing them as they see fit with hunting seasons (some are allowing trapping) and will continue to do so as long as they don't drop below the agreed upon levels. Currently the plan is to delist them throughout the rest of the country so that any of the other states where they are now listed can do the same before they become a huge problem as they did in the previously mentioned states. The citizen comment period for that proposal just ended a week or two ago. Just a hint that it might do you well to not post when you don't know what you're talking about, but as each day goes by that's getting more doubtful!

Heres my plan for Wolf Management.Gut shoot everyone you see.

quote:

Originally posted by OLBIKER:
Heres my plan for Wolf Management.Gut shoot everyone you see.

***A true hunter wouldn't make comments like that! They are a living, breathing animal that deserves to be dispatched in a humane manner just like anything else that's hunted. Would you like to be gut shot?!!!

Your right,I would trap them and hamstring them like they did my sheep.

quote:

Originally posted by OLBIKER:
Your right,I would trap them and hamstring them like they did my sheep.

***You do know that they are wild animals just doing their thing, not humans with cognitive reasoning, don't you?! Just kill the SOBs if you catch them doing anything destructive and please quit making statements detrimental to hunting! It makes you look as bad as the antis with their "kill a human" for every rhino that's killed type of stupid philosophy.

Discussions on wolves always seem to get the blood pressure up for a lot of people. Residents in rural areas who have only recently had to start dealing with them and the problems they can cause from time to time, usually show a lot of animosity towards the beasts. Those who have lived with them most of their lives tend to be a bit more forgiving as they have come to appreciate and respect them as part of the ecosystem. No better, no worse than any other beast in wilderness.

Over the years I have lost horses and other livestock to wolves, but I do not hate them. Like every other big game species their numbers need to be managed, but the wild places would be the poorer if they did not exist. They do have a place in the ecosystem.

I always find it interesting that hunters who want to go to Africa and shoot lions and leopards, expect everyone over there who live with them on a daily basis and lose livestock to them, to be tolerant and look at the big picture. Meanwhile the same people want the wolves exterminated at home when they have to deal with similar problems.

The wolves are just out there trying to make a living and if they are managed properly there is room for all of us. There will be depredation problems for farmers and ranchers from time to time, there always is with predators, but the solution is to take out the problem animals, not total annihilation of the species.

If that mindset was in charge there would be virtually no apex predators left on any of the continents except in the most remote locations. As with most things the sweet spot is somewhere in the middle. Total hands off as is desired by the anti-hunting/pro-wolf crowd wearing the rose coloured glass is no more the solution than the gut shoot em/three S's crowd.

Excellent post Skyline!!!

This has nothing to do with hunting.My Great Grandfather homesteaded here.He knew that Wolves and live stock cannot co-exist if you actually want to make a living and bring up a family.So Wi.Offered a bounty to get rid of them.Everything was good until they migrated back here from Minnesota.Then the Bunny Huggers got involved and had them put on the endangered list and not unlike anything they do it did not work out.I would not be killing them as a hunter,but as someone who living is being fucked with.A friend of mine is American Indian.He thinks putting out poisoned meat is the way to go.Me, I could care less about how they go.

quote:

Originally posted by Quintus:
...Maybe...we could introduce wolves into downtown Boise, Minneapolis,Cheyenne , and Denver!...

Umm, what?
I don't get your point about including Cheyenne, or Boise either.
We have had at least one wolf confirmed by hair DNA by USDA WS 20 miles west of here on a ranch.
Being in the predator zone, Cheyenne proper is a logical place for drop some off. I and several others I know would probably clean them out, tout de suite (French for pretty damn quick.) he'll, I'd even give ravenr a call to come on down for the fun of it.

quote:

Originally posted by OLBIKER:
This has nothing to do with hunting.My Great Grandfather homesteaded here.He knew that Wolves and live stock cannot co-exist if you actually want to make a living and bring up a family.So Wi.Offered a bounty to get rid of them.Everything was good until they migrated back here from Minnesota.Then the Bunny Huggers got involved and had them put on the endangered list and not unlike anything they do it did not work out.I would not be killing them as a hunter,but as someone who living is being fucked with.A friend of mine is American Indian.He thinks putting out poisoned meat is the way to go.Me, I could care less about how they go.

***Well then, if that's you're attitude on killing something in less than a humane way IMHO you are a piss poor example of a human being, as well as a hunter!

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:

quote:

Originally posted by OLBIKER:
This has nothing to do with hunting.My Great Grandfather homesteaded here.He knew that Wolves and live stock cannot co-exist if you actually want to make a living and bring up a family.So Wi.Offered a bounty to get rid of them.Everything was good until they migrated back here from Minnesota.Then the Bunny Huggers got involved and had them put on the endangered list and not unlike anything they do it did not work out.I would not be killing them as a hunter,but as someone who living is being fucked with.A friend of mine is American Indian.He thinks putting out poisoned meat is the way to go.Me, I could care less about how they go.

***Well then, if that's you're attitude on killing something in less than a humane way IMHO you are a piss poor example of a human being, as well as a hunter!

GFY Troll!!!

I doubt that there will ever be peace between the cliff dwellers (aka bunny huggers) and the folks to whom a cow might represent their winter meat or shoes for their kids.
It's easy to be noble when you're sitting inside of a house someone else has built, keeping warm with heat someone else has provided, and with gravy running down your chin from meat someone else has raised and killed.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
I doubt that there will ever be peace between the cliff dwellers (aka bunny huggers) and the folks to whom a cow might represent their winter meat or shoes for their kids.
It's easy to be noble when you're sitting inside of a house someone else has built, keeping warm with heat someone else has provided, and with gravy running down your chin from meat someone else has raised and killed.

In more plain English I'll repeat: "ANYONE who would not humanely kill ANY animal is a POS!" and that goes for anyone else who would agree with gut shooting an animal like OLBIKER stated, ESPECIALLY an ex-zookeeper PH Hunting Consultant with the username of CHC!!! FYI I hunt in Wyoming every year and a good friend had 40+ sheep on his ranch killed in just one night by a pack of wolves. The Feds came in and shot them as humanely as possible. Anything other than humanely killing any animal just isn't right because they do not have the thought process of a human to determine right from wrong. The thought process of anyone saying or agreeing with OLBIKER is on a level with an animal IMHO!!! What is wrong with some people, as they're an embarrassment to hunting and the human race to make or agree with such stupid statements!!! On second thought, that post by CHC did not surprise me one bit and just proves he's a nonthinking piece of garbage with the career he had to post that up!

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:
In more plain English I'll repeat: "ANYONE who would not humanely kill ANY animal is a POS!" and that goes for anyone else who would agree with gut shooting an animal like OLBIKER stated, ESPECIALLY an ex-zookeeper PH Hunting Consultant with the username of CHC!!! FYI I hunt in Wyoming every year and a good friend had 40+ sheep on his ranch killed in just one night by a pack of wolves. The Feds came in and shot them as humanely as possible. Anything other than humanely killing any animal just isn't right because they do not have the thought process of a human to determine right from wrong. The thought process of anyone saying or agreeing with OLBIKER is on a level with an animal IMHO!!! What is wrong with some people, as they're an embarrassment to hunting and the human race to make or agree with such stupid statements!!! On second thought, that post by CHC did not surprise me one bit and just proves he's a nonthinking piece of garbage with the career he had to post that up!

You are the only one who continually makes a fool out of yourself.You are always looking for a cause to fight against some mean and terrible person.Your comments are not needed nor wanted.You are a misfit that will never fit in.Folks here had you figured from the git go.Go bottom feed some where else.

Fuck you and anyone else that would gut shoot any animal or anyone else that agrees with it!!! I'll be around regularly and you can bet your sorry ass that when stupid comments are on the Forum like you're posting up I'll hand you your sorry ass on a platter! Now go gut shoot yourself and quit being a detriment to humanity and this website!!! What an asshole talking about me as a misfit when all I'm saying is kill any animal humanely. FYI dickhead, people are being arrested every day for cruelty to animals involving a lot less than what you're espousing and you have the fucking nerve to have "Professional Hunter" as your tag line---What a fucking joke!

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
I doubt that there will ever be peace between the cliff dwellers (aka bunny huggers) and the folks to whom a cow might represent their winter meat or shoes for their kids.
It's easy to be noble when you're sitting inside of a house someone else has built, keeping warm with heat someone else has provided, and with gravy running down your chin from meat someone else has raised and killed.

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:
Fuck you and anyone else that would gut shoot any animal or anyone else that agrees with it!!! I'll be around regularly and you can bet your sorry ass that when stupid comments are on the Forum like you're posting up I'll hand you your sorry ass on a platter! Now go gut shoot yourself and quit being a detriment to humanity and this website!!! What an asshole talking about me as a misfit when all I'm saying is kill any animal humanely. FYI dickhead, people are being arrested every day for cruelty to animals involving a lot less than what you're espousing and you have the fucking nerve to have "Professional Hunter" as your tag line---What a fucking joke!

Yes you will and you will continue to make a fool of your self.

Like I said all along and your last post just keeps on proving that you're a fucking joke if you really mean what you have stated about gut shooting animals. It says a whole lot about your character and integrity or actually your complete lack thereof! Carry on with your senseless drivel!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:
Like I said all along and your last post just keeps on proving that you're a fucking joke if you really mean what you have stated about gut shooting animals. It says a whole lot about your character and integrity or actually your complete lack thereof! Carry on with your senseless drivel!!!

Yes you will and you will continue to make a fool of your self.

Another day in the world of TG. See, I can have him on ignore, but folks keep quoting his latest troll , so I can see the crap that he comes up with.

He keeps running from one member to another, agreeing with them on issues, AKA Sucking Up, until those folks catch on to his little game and start responding to him as they should have in the first place. Then they become his bitter enemies and he resorts to emailing people about these discussions on their private addresses, not thru the messaging service of the site.

People gut shoot feral hogs and coyotes all the time here in Texas, I don't do it, but it damn sure don't bother me if someone else chooses to do so, it is their business not mine, same damn thing applies to wolves as far as I am concerned. If I lived in one of the areas where the wolves had been re-introduced I might possibly do some gut shooting myself.

CHC---Stick that GD BS pole where the sun don't shine because now you've definitely proved YOU''RE the asshole that has to go from one person to the next until you can finally agree with one, LOL! You might know it's one who has about as much integrity as a pimple on your sorry ass and you just matched him!!! See, the thing is that I could really give two shits about what an ex zookeeping, mental midget from Olney, TX that had to find a job filling deer feeders and now calls himself a PH Hunting Consultant thinks

PS: What's the matter CHC? It looks like you're not getting enough attention and had to start your own thread. Pretty pathetic when a PH Hunting Consultant starts a thread showing he can't guide anyone to more than a pisscutter doe, LOL!

Some have expressed an opinion that wolves where intentionally introduced to crash big game populations. The purpose was to reduce interest in hunting with the eventual goal of making it easier to implement gun control.

Do you think there's something to this or is it the stuff of tin foil hat brigade?

quote:

Originally posted by Bigasanelk:
Some have expressed an opinion that wolves where intentionally introduced to crash big game populations. The purpose was to reduce interest in hunting with the eventual goal of making it easier to implement gun control.

Do you think there's something to this or is it the stuff of tin foil hat brigade?

That is exactly what I believe! The proof is in the pudding.... so to speak.

Never say never, but that may be stretching things a little. Now with the delisting and and states being able to manage them to get them back to acceptable levels in areas where they've decimated ungulate populations the trend may well be reversed over the next decade or so.

It has been a basic tenet of hunting that we always try to kill an animal as quickly and humanely as possible. We have designed firearms, ammunition and other equipment to do just that.
To do otherwise will turn the non-hunting public against hunters and hunting.

The idea of intentionally gut shooting any animal to cause maximum pain to that animal is in my opinion completely aborent.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
It has been a basic tenet of hunting that we always try to kill an animal as quickly and humanely as possible. We have designed firearms, ammunition and other equipment to do just that.
To do otherwise will turn the non-hunting public against hunters and hunting.

The idea of intentionally gut shooting any animal to cause maximum pain to that animal is in my opinion completely aborent.

465H&H

Nice to see a couple others come on this thread and tell OLBIKER and CHC they're sorry excuses for hunters to espouse guy shooting any living being!

I cannot speak for other geographical areas. I know that in the UP there are people that gut shoot wolves. It has nothing to do with revenge or retribution.

It has to do with vigilante justice. The wolves are introduced or migrated into an area. They receive Federal protection and multiply. The wolf population exceeds the 'social carrying capacity' (I like that buzzword. It means there are too many of them for the indigenous peoples to tolerate.)

So what happens is they get terminally wounded. Run off and die. No corpse, no case; no conviction, no fine.

Only the mentally challenged or drunken braggarts get convicted. And the wolf population gets managed.

This is not to say that I approve of this practice. Nor have I ever intentionally shot a wolf. Just clarifying the reasoning behind the practice.

quote:

Originally posted by youp50:
I cannot speak for other geographical areas. I know that in the UP there are people that gut shoot wolves. It has nothing to do with revenge or retribution.

It has to do with vigilante justice. The wolves are introduced or migrated into an area. They receive Federal protection and multiply. The wolf population exceeds the 'social carrying capacity' (I like that buzzword. It means there are too many of them for the indigenous peoples to tolerate.)

So what happens is they get terminally wounded. Run off and die. No corpse, no case; no conviction, no fine.

Only the mentally challenged or drunken braggarts get convicted. And the wolf population gets managed.

This is not to say that I approve of this practice. Nor have I ever intentionally shot a wolf. Just clarifying the reasoning behind the practice.

***I think most probably know that what you stated is why it's done, but all that does is show that a person is violating the law when they shoot a protected animal, as well as having no ethics by not doing it humanely. As far as the member who talked about his sheep, if they are being taken by wolves there are remedies to legally take care of the situation just like I mentioned my rancher friend did a couple years ago when they killed 40+ of his sheep one night. There is no excuse to take the law into your own hands ("vigilante justice" as you called it)!