The WSMs and Ultras.

If this site is any guide then there seems to be a fair bit of activity with 300 and 338 Ultra and also 270 and 300 WSM.

7mm WSM, 7mm Ultra and 375 Ultra appear to be deader than dead. The 7mm and 300 SAUM also appear to be heart transplant material.

But what is happening in the real world of American gun buyers.

Mike

Mike375- My .30cal rifle is a 30.06 that I will probably never replace in my life-time But if I was going to replace it for a new 30 it would definitely be the 300WSM

In the part of Canada that I live in the 300wsm and 300ultramag are selling well with the 270wsm,7mmwsmand 338ultramag doing ok.The rsum's are not selling well at all.

I am quite interested in the facts on this topic. The only data I have seen in the past is the RCBS die sales. Someone knows this information. Who do you know at one of the manufacturers who can provide us with an answer?

Just my guess but I feel that the 300 WSM and 270 WSM are doing very well and might surprise many.

300 WSM is doing well.

I think that the most interesting "Ultras" are the big ones like the .338 and .375, but I guess that's not the case with everyone else.

I think the SAUM's will die.

I am seeing less of them, not only in the gun stores, but at the range. The range is not so surprising... I see I very high correlation of "new" shooters shooting "new" cartridges for a few weeks, then they never coming back. By "new" I mean... shooters who are truly new to shooting guns and have limited exposure. Or "The Decade shooter" which are shooters who have been shooting for "decades"... one box of ammo at a time. These "decade" shooters eagerly claim experience but fault there shooting ability on sights/optics, and cant seem to give specifics about hunts/guides/locations of hunts they were on. They are also unsure if the deer shot by the 300 ultrnewmagnumoftheweek on the video at Ron�s Guns last week dropped faster than the one they shot in 1972 with a 7mag, so they buy a 300 ultrnewmagnumoftheweek. I am not against new cartridges, or any cartridge that furthers new shooters or the shooting sports but do see a small decline from my limited perspective.

Everybody I know is buying a 270WSM.

I bought both a 270 WSM and a 300 WSM in the past month.

Winchester is adding a 25 WSSM this year. I didn't think that the 223 and 243 WSSM were selling that well to begin with. TTS

I saw alot of the 300wsm and some 270wsm at the range before hunting season but things died off now that winter is setting in. Tom

I am a bona fide gun nut, admittedly. Also I'm a lefty, and many of these new calibers are available in left hand. I have owned in the last two years a .338RUM, .300RUM, 7mmWSM, .300WSM, and have a 270 WSM on order.
Don

Everyone has a view on the new cartridges, but I see the real sweet cartridge as the 270 WSM. Why, because it kind of does something the existing dont. It sits smack dab between the 270 WCF, and the 270 Weatherby mag. If I wanted one, that's the one I would get. Next on my list might be a 243 WSSM, but I need to hear more from Lawdog convincing me it is more than a glorified 6mm Rem. The 300 WSM seems a success also.

Winchester:

The WSM line is selling very well with the .300 leading the way.
The WSSM are selling like hot cakes. Stores can't keep them on the shelves.

Remington:

The line of Ultra Magnums are not doing well. Remington is cutting back on the models available for them every year.
The SAUM line is not doing well. The .300 SAUM is the best seller in this line.

I don't believe that the .378 or the .338 RUM will stand the test of time although the 7mm and .300 may. To early to tell. Same with the SAUM line. Winchester just beat Remington to the punch on these. Lawdog

Aggiedog and Lawdog hit this on the head. Winchester beat Remington to the punch and set the market. Even thought the Rem. may have a performance edge it's not that great and it looks like the the WSMs will stay. I think the 270WSM and the 300 WSM are the two best and I'd think real hard about a 270WSM. If I was going to only own one rifle it would most likely be the 300WSM( even though my 308 does all I need).

I like to repeat what Jeff Cooper said that we don't need new and better cartridges, we need new and better rifles.

With that said I have not seen any of these calibers for sale in my area, but I admit to not looking very hard either. Obviously the factories want shooters to buy a new rifle when they otherwise do not need or want one.

I did buy a .376 Steyr in their ProHunter model because it gave me most of the capability of a .375 H&H in a rifle 40" long -- and a rifle well-suited to North American hunting at that.

The Short and Short-Action cartridges generally don't deliver all of what the longer cartridge it is supposed to replace does, especially with bullets on the heavy end of the range for the cartridge. If you shoot light to medium bullet weights, you might get some benefit from the rifle. The manufacturer, of course, sells you one more rifle and reaps that benefit.

The reloading die data is used for comparisons because it is all we have. Manufacturers are very reluctant to provide sales data.

jim dodd

jim dodd wrote:

Quote:

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I like to repeat what Jeff Cooper said that we don't need new and better cartridges, we need new and better rifles.

I did buy a .376 Steyr in their ProHunter model because it gave me most of the capability of a .375 H&H in a rifle 40" long -- and a rifle well-suited to North American hunting at that.

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Jim- your a man after my own heart. I shoot Steyrs as well. If I could come up with a reason why I needed it, I would love to have a stainless mountain ProHunter in .308. I think it would be one of the handiest rifles a person could own. But I have my Model"M"Pro in 30.06 from back in 85 with double set triggers and I can't justify replacing it.
I also have a ProHunter in .243. Now if Steyr would just offer the StainMountProHunter in 300WSM I might be conviced to sell my Model"M" - Maybe?
..but after all it is only about 200fps fast than my .06... Beware of the "Wants"...

BTW- How do your like your .376 Steyr?

Mike,
You aussies are normally more practical. I know you shoot the 375, not many things to improve on it is there, or the old 303 in the real world. Overhere same thing for the 30/06, 270, 243, 308, 7 mag etc.

I personally think it is all a marketing ploy, to sell more guns. ( which ain't a bad thing) However, create a problem that does not exist and sell a solution to those that think they have the problem and need your solution.

I guess the best example of Winchesters Short Mags doing better than Remingtons is that I saw Remington selling Model 700s in a 270 Winchester Short Mag! Oh well....

To show the hysteria, I was at the range and shooting a rifle with handloads at milk jug at 500 yds. Some guy comes over and asks me if that is one of those new Short mags, or the Super Short MAGS.? He saw the rifle was a Model 70. I told him, NO, It is actually a 6mm Winchester Medium Length Mag. His face lit up and said that he had not even heard of that one yet. You just can't keep up with all the new short mags he said. I will have to check out one of those down at the sporting goods stores. So he tells his buddy lets go and check it out at Bradbury's a local gun shop.

My buddy was grinning and asked me what in the hell was I talkiing about. I told him a 6mm Winchester Medium short Mag. What in the hell is that he said..... Well they use to call it a 243 was my answer.

Gullible society we live in here, let me tell ya.

The 270 WSM and the 300 WSM is selling well from the gun shops that I've talked to around here. I bought a 300 WSM last year, shot a bull moose with it and then sold it. Now I own a 270 WSM. I don't know how the Remington short mags or the Ultra Mags are selling. I haven't seen any out in the field.

Us Aussies are practical, but not so much more than other hunters around the world. Here in OZ, from what I've seen and heard, the short mags aren't overly popular - might be a case of supply from the States or lack of demand which also affects supplies I guess.
Here in OZ, the .308 is one of the most popular (along with the .223 and .243) and they seem to do job.
But, there is always room in the gun-safe i suppose
The problem with a cartridge like the .308 and .223 is that they are so dammed good to shoot and easy and cheap to reload you forget about buying any more rifles/new calibres.
Adrian

The .308 would be near perfect for the sort of "control" shooting you Aussies do . The short mags would be of little value in that situation , but for our plains hunting here , they outdo many of the standard cartridges.



From what I can see , the .270 and .300 WSM are selling like hotcakes in this area . No Remmy SUM selling atall .



You see a fair amount of 300 Ultras , and only a sprinking of .338 Ultra. I have seen ONE .375 RUM on a dealers's rack...........

Wouldn't the .308W still be good for 'plains' hunting where you come from?
Ive shot everything from feral Camels, Fallow Deer to feral goats and pigs (wild Boar) with the .308. Distances range from 10m to 200m (very rarely). I reckon thats plenty of performance to hunt in the US. Send a plane ticket (to USA) to me along with the particulars of the outfitter whose services you hired (all paid, of course ) and I will give the .308w a go
Cheers
Adrian

AJ1........local dealers tell me the .308 sells very poorly in this area . People look at the short case and are conviced it isn't flat enough . And I have to say I'd prefer cartridges with 3000+ fps for local hunting . 300 yard and up are very common shots here.....

You make it this far , and we will get you some hunting for the price of a license , no outfitter needed . You might find shooting a couple of whitetails sort of tame , though ,compared to whacking dozens of roos and stuff over there...........

If the short mags aren't selling well it's because the powers that be don't know how to market them. Remington would sell every TitM700 they make if they chambered them in 7 & 30RSUM. Why trade of your pet .280/7mag for a std. weight rifle in a short cart.? Bring back the light wt. mountain rifles in the short mags & watch them go. I am still waiting for a .338WSM or .338SAUM.

I've got an Uncle in Canada who wants me to come over and hunt Moose with him - perhaps I'll go next year and then head down to hunt whitetail deer with you - that would be unreal. its always been a dream of mine to hunt deer in the US.
Adrian

Fredj338,
I agree with you in the fact that if Rem would bring out the Titanium in 300SUAM they would sell. I have been thinking of getting one of the Titanium rifles in '06, but already have an '06. So see no sense in getting another one. I am looking for a ultralight flat shooting rifle. I already have an early 5.5 lb Model Seven in 7-08 with the 18.5in. barrel, but am looking for something that will handle heavier bullets. Keith

The first Nail-in-the-coffin has been hammered in by Savage when they dropped the Saum's from their 2004 line-up!

Remington's biggest mistake was introducing the Rem shorts. Winchester was there first and the rem shorts never offered anything better!

Both WSM's and Rem Ultras are doing great here!