This is my first post on this forum after visiting from time to time. I really like the proffesionalism at this site compared to others I have frequented. TTS

[This message has been edited by Curtis_Lemay (edited 12-18-2001).]

However, I do prefer a synthetic stock on guns that are likely to get wet. A friend of mine took his 870 out in the rain for 2 days and at the end of the second day found he couldn't open the action to unload, due to the forend swelling.

John

John, I was surprised to hear that about the 870 wood problem. I have hunted with mine for 20 years in rain and shine without any problems. But then again, there is always next year. TTS

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The synthetic stocks I would consider for this job are (in order): Brown Precision, HS Precision, and McMillan. I would bed the action in some glass. If you don't want to go that route then look at the HS Precision stocks with the aluminum bedding system. Its not as good as a real bedding job but in my experience can be pretty darn good. The McMillan are actually tops in my book in terms of quality but they take FOREVER to get something out the door. I ordered a stock from them back in July and just got it last week.

Wooden stocks are light and reasonably tough. High quality synthetic stokcs are indestructible but they are noisier when bumped. laminates are also strong but a bit heavier.
I use both with equal pleasure, the only thing is to pillar bed the action of the wooden stock. As for scratches, they are part of the history of the rifle and one can still have the stock reworked to get it as brand new...
olivier

As to the stocks mentioned above, I have two Brown Precisions. Awesome stocks. Also have some HS stocks. Wonderful for a stock that you can even get on a factory rifle.

Even so, I like synthetic stocks much better. Pretty is as pretty does, and when it comes to function, a top synthetic stock beats out wood any day of the week. In fact, I don't think there's anything at all ugly about a well-made rifle with a synthetic stock. There's something very attractive about quality equipment that's built for sheer efficiency. Knowing it's quality for what it is counts for more than sheer cosmetics every time to me.

My favorite brand of synthetic stock is McMillan, and I've used them in every sort of environment you can think of. I don't think there's another brand on the market that has a better record of quality construction and performance, and there certainly isn't any other synthetic that's worked as well for me.

AD

I have a friend that spends alot of time hunting Kodiak, and only uses wood stocks. He's been hunting here for 20 odd years. He builds all his own stocks, and finishes them inside and out with epoxy, they do not shift. He did open up a barrel channel on one stock, and forgot to reseal it. It turned into a bannana on him.

I think the laminated stocks are too heavy for field use, seems like bench work and varmint hunts is their best use.

If you budget $300-500, you can get a good synthetic stock or a decent pre-inletted stock to finish yourself.

quote:

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Originally posted by TTS:

John, I was surprised to hear that about the 870 wood problem. I have hunted with mine for 20 years in rain and shine without any problems. But then again, there is always next year. TTS

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You never know ... I bought a new 870 with a synthetic stock and one side of the forend rubbed on the barrel. If it had been wood I can see how it could seize up pretty tight when wet!

I believe good dry seasoned and sealed wood will not warp. some of mine are 30 plus years old and have been in all types of weather every year of their existence. Good wood is just as strong as plastic and as a matter of fact I have repaired a lot of the better plastic stocks that snaped at the wrist from a horse fall or something like that so don't believe that hype. I also have seen plastic stocks warp in trunks of cars in the African and Texas heat.

If I lived and hunted every day in a coastal area like Alaska, I might break down and use a laminated stock with a poly finish and a SS metal with a Black Robar coating or something on the order of my 416 Rem M-70, but its for sale...

Thats the way I feel about it, but sure could care less what anybody else uses, thats soley up to them...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

A slow rust blue, though expensive, is the least sensitive towards rust, and the longest lasting most durable of all finishes, thats why some of the old African guns ( quality British Rifles ) that have been hunted with for centurys still have all the blue left on them.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Laminates are stiffer, more stable but the price for this is weight.

A synthetic stock(not the junk injection molded-plastic ones like Ray is refering to) is the best choice for the serious big game hunter. Here's why:
1. Stiffer and more stable = accuracy. How many benchrest shooters still use wood?
2. Lighter if you wish, there are several synthetic stocks which are light but still strong and accurate.
3. The finishes can be touched up easily whether its paint or gel-coat epoxy.
4. Extremely forgiving if you do the work yourself(pillar bedding, recoil pad,studs)with wood once its material is gone its gone!
5. Highly repairable if damaged. Miracles can happen if an accident occurs. This applies to wood but to a lessor degree.
6. Warp-free. This is a no brainer! Under equal conditions wood will always warp first!!!
7. Warranty. All the top synthetic stockmakers back up their products. Try that with the wood people.

I'm not anti-wood, I own both and have hunted hard on many backcountry hunts with both. I've seen wood fail far more times than a good synthetic on these hunts. Ask yourself: Do I want to leave anything to chance? Do I want to bring home trophys? Or do I want to hunt for nostalgia's sake with a wood stock.

I prefer McMillans but Borden's Rimrock, Brown Precision and HS Precision are great choices too. McMillan has unlimited color choices in their marble swirl gel-coat finish, you can specify a stiffer forearm and action(its called weatherby fill) and the wait is worth it. 2 to 6 mos with 3 being the average in my experience. Do some research and think it over, I think you will go with synthetic. E-mail me if you need more info. sure-shot

P.S Contrary to Ray's experiences I've seen more wood stocks broken at the pistol grip from horse falls, PU truck seats(stored behind the seat)and quad runner crashes. Alot of old stocks split from solvents and oils soaking in. How many farmer John shotguns do you see with taped up pistol grips?

[This message has been edited by sure-shot (edited 12-19-2001).]

[This message has been edited by sure-shot (edited 12-19-2001).]

[This message has been edited by ForrestB (edited 12-19-2001).]

[This message has been edited by sure-shot (edited 12-19-2001).]

As Ray said a properly sealed wood stock will not warp.

Personally, I've found oil-finished walnut to be an absolute worst-choice option for wet weather hunting. One famous stockmaker of my acquaintance said to me, "There's no such thing as a good oil finish!" I agree, except possibly for warm, dry, blue-bird Southwestern U.S. or African hunting.

A quality synthetic stock (they're not all created equal) is something like nine times stronger than wood. This has been established by independent tests nearly twenty years ago. There's no comparison between the two in terms of strength, and Ray, I don't know how in good conscience you can point out the structural failings of whatever synthetic stocks you've seen break, yet ignore the scores of walnut stocks that have snapped in two - usually at the pistol grip, and sometimes while resting in a hardcase, no less!

AD

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[This message has been edited by phurley (edited 12-19-2001).]

Robert Jobson

Having said that, my beloved pre-64 M70 .375 wears a McMillan supergrade. Why? The synthetic gives me much more durability and structural integrity for the dollar spent.

Someday when I can afford to have a nice fancy piece of wood custom fitted I shall do so. And I won't hesitate to take it into the field. Until then, that will be me out there in basic black.

Regards to all,

~Holmes

I have shot one of the original run of Remington 870s for an awful lot of years. It was originally owned by an old waterfowl hunter back home in Currituck, N.C. It has the original wood that came on it, sans finish, and, to this day it has never malfunctioned once. It's just a tool and a heck of a shooter. I have stocks on others in both wood and synthetic and have had no problem with either and I spend more time afield then anyone has a right to spend. Although my last acquisition is stainless/synthetic, I really like a nice piece of wood.

Another poster said something to the effect that wood on fine guns would become relics of a day gone by? By the time that happens he'll probably be shooting synthetic, genetically altered game behind a fence. Maybe he already is!

Thank God for Alaska, the last great place!

Of the other stocks mentioned I have two rimrocks and a mcmillan. From a composites point of view the better stock is clearly the Borden. The mold is superior and the layup spares no expense to give you maximum strength at reasonable weight.

In the end I love wood.
The rifle I have been carrying is a mauser in .358 Norma on a piece of tiger maple I got from a friend. I can tell you about each ding including the one it sports from a fall we took into a frozen stream. The wood stock fits me exactly. I have enough cast in it so that it points where I look. The toe out allows the stock to fit naturally in my shoulder. So far only wood can do that.

The middle ground here might be a laminate. D'arcy Echols uses an african wood laminate that is light and quite strong. I think he was testing a Lott in one and it had not moved the wood appreciably. I bought a blank and it is quite handsome. Now that winter is upon us I may actually do something with it.

If you want to try one let me know and I'll dig up the contact/website for you.

I promise you this will be the mother of all wars!!!!

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Looked over my new CZ 550 today. The wood is okay but I've already consulted with a stock-maker and I'll get a nice blank this spring to complete before the season starts again. Looking for that "African" touch!

quote:

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Originally posted by Atkinson:
Damn Yankee carpet baggers n californians, that have no soul..

I promise you this will be the mother of all wars!!!!

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Ray,
Just stirring the pot a little...all in good fun of course! sure-shot

Merry Christmas to all.

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Don't tread on me!
Pennsylvania Frank

[This message has been edited by Pa.Frank (edited 12-22-2001).]

I don't call crossing rocky creeks, slipping on shale or horses stumbling "stupid", I call it "hunting hard". How can you generalize when you have not hunted with a synthetic? I have hunted with both(wood & syn) and have witnessed more wood stocks fail than syn. Wood is a good stock material but syn is "better". The old school is having a hard time swallowing the facts but thats life. My 3 cents! sure-shot

P.S. If wood is so great why have all the modern militarys around the world switched to synthetics especially the elite sniper units? There are McMillans and HS Precision stocks right now over in Afghanistan being used by our boys, go figure!