Okay, I'm just spit-wadding this so let's pretend it's hypothetical.

What if you knew somebody that owned some hunting property. This person and some of his pals were without-a-doubt 'straight arrow'. He organizes a hunt every year on his property for very deserved enlisted military personnel that have heard shots fired in anger. He does so without fanfare nor for attention.

Perhaps some of the enlisted troops he invites onto his property are new to hunting. Maybe they have small kids, car payments, and other expenses. Maybe they don't know a lot about sporting weapons but are keen on learning how to hunt.

Would you consider donating a surplus-to-needs hunting rifle to put into the hands of a proven combat Vet's hands that wants to get into hunting? Or chipping in some bucks for ammo and such? Perhaps you'd rather have a loved one's favorite hunting rifle live on under those circumstances than trade it for some pieces of silver?

Obviously many of you have figured out what I am getting at. 'Spring' (Vic Sullivan) has been doing the above for some time. Judge G has already donated such a rifle as had Tom Lorenzen (AKA 'TWL"). http://forums.accuratereloadin...2711043/m/4131029511

No need to create a bunch of red tape and bureaucracy as handshakes are much better. This would be a grass roots thing. Reminds me of the stories read about back when people sent rifles to England back in 1940 for defense of their island.

Feel free to weigh in

In theory I probably would. Are you organizing something?

Matt,

Your heart is definitely in the right place but I don’t know if it’s such a great idea in practice. This has been suggested (along with easing the licensing process) as a way to help recruit youngsters into the hunting fraternity.

Will “lowering the bar” and making things easier (and cheaper) for the prospective hunter really accomplish anything substantive?

Things were different 30 to 50+ years ago. Finding a good place to hunt was easier. Getting to and from the hunting grounds was cheaper when gas went for less than a buck a gallon. (Usually a LOT less!) Back then, a rifle was relaitvely expensive when compared to the wages of the day and other prices. If you gave a new hunter a rifle there’s a good chance that they would actually be able to use it.

Hunting nowadays is not easy nor is it inexpensive. By all indications it is only going to get tougher and more expensive as time goes on. The hunter of the future will have to be far more determined and committed than previous generations. A rifle is only the first of many financial outlays for the prospective hunter and these days it’s probably among the least costly. (I recently bought an ugly but perfectly serviceable Savage 110 for $150.00. That’s barely the cost of an Ipod loaded with a few dozen songs. You can’t even buy 3 tanks of gasoline for $150.00.)

The prospective hunter who is unwilling to invest such a (relatively) minor sum of money on a piece of equipment that can last for a lifetime is probably not all that serious.

One also has to be careful about becoming an “enabler.” If the newbie truly cannot afford a firearm and ammunition because of family responsibilities will they realistically have the money (and more importantly, the time) to spend on hunting?

Despite the best of intentions, I fear that a lot of the donated rifles will end up at the local pawn shop for one reason or another.

My sister’s daughter will soon be marrying a young man who is currently serving in the Marines. He’s expressed an interest in hunting. I think he’s serious and I’m going to help and encourage him as best I can. I will gladly loan him my ugly Savage for as long as it takes for him to decide if he’s really a hunter at heart. When he offers to buy it (or something else more to his liking) I’ll know for sure!

I'm also a firm believer in something that (I think) Ben Franklin once said that goes something like this: "If you want to donate to charity, give your help directly to the person who needs it."

i'm lucky enough to get to teach people how to hunt locally.Yes i have bought used guns for some of the special ones to keep.I've been hunting appox 30 years and in last 15 have taught a bunch to hunt.some been long time hunters some new but they got their first deer on my property.Last one was a marine that just came home couple years ago while i didn't give him a gun i supplied the ammo for his and taught him from the hunt to the dinner table he can now kill clean and cook deer.It is a wonderful thing to be in a position to help so now that i bored you with my story my suggestion is yes if opportunity arises for you do it but don't just give them the rifle or shotgun spend time with them and help them learn.I qurantee you will learn also

I'm not organizing anything yet, like I said I was just going hypothetical. Hunter numbers are indeed declining and we (established) hunters need to do what we can to get more people into the field. I've done my fair share of taking first-timers to the range and out into the field. I personally don't think we can sit back and wait to see who has enough gumption to get out there on their own.

And what better group could we help than young US military personnel? Who already have a strong sense of discipline, honor, and duty?
For a variety of reasons it's much harder for current generations to become hunters. If we succeed in getting one of three to become long-term hunters then it was time/effort well spent.

Matt,
For what it's worth, the Marines in our area have a very substantial and highly productive place to hunt--and it's free, too. It's about 180,000 acres and is called Ft Bening. The Marines from here regularly go there to deer, turkey, and hog hunt. So bringing a Marine in as a new hunter should not find the cost mentioned earlier as a major barrier. I've been with them twice to hog hunt, and watching a group of 4 or 5 Marines sneak through heavily wooded ravines hunting hogs is something to see!
Here's an article on our annual October hunt that tells about young Marine getting to deer hunt for the first time.

quote:

Originally posted by Bigasanelk:
I'm also a firm believer in something that (I think) Ben Franklin once said that goes something like this: "If you want to donate to charity, give your help directly to the person who needs it."

It doesn't matter who said it, nail on the head.

If the person in question walks up to you and asks you to take them hunting, do it!
If you mention to them that you hunt and they ask to go along, take them!

Otherwise, it is probably not that important to them or they would have already found a way to accomplish it.

--Mike

Un doubtedly all members here would be happy to donate to any worthy recipient.

The caveat being the responsible donor would require assurances of a reasonable donation to a deserving recipient.

I'd be more than happy to share my material goods with a deserving person.

Hey Matt, It might not be needed to give the MARINES rifles. When I was in, we could go to the Base Armory and check-out about any kind of rifle we could possibly want. Perhaps that has changed since I was in the CORPS.

There have been lots of Deer, Hogs and Bears Killed in the Carolinas with M14s. The distance was short enough that we did not need any of the Sniper rifles they had available. The M14s were in use to 500yds with standard iron sights anyhow.

I know the M16 is the current "issue" rifle, but that has nothing to do with what is in the Armory.

I guess my short answer to a general question is "No, I wouldn't donate a rifle." Loan them one for a first hunt or two? Of course.

Why? Well, as several have pointed out, if they don't want it bad enough to get their own then they are not likely to become hunters. The second reason is related to the first, if they can't afford one on their own then they don't need to be taking time off to go hunting.

Now specifically, if I knew someone who was an exception to the above general observations for some reason (which I really can't think of what that would be right now), I'd be more than willing to help them with equipment and a place to hunt in Texas.

Basically, I think the general idea is on the long end of the "introduction to hunting" age spectrum.......kids may not be able to, or have parents that will finance firearms or the place and time to learn to handle one safely.....if someone can help them learn to shoot and hunt then you might have a real long term convert......there are problems with that too, liability among them if you have any net worth, nothing is easy these days.

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:

quote:

Originally posted by Bigasanelk:
I'm also a firm believer in something that (I think) Ben Franklin once said that goes something like this: "If you want to donate to charity, give your help directly to the person who needs it."

It doesn't matter who said it, nail on the head.

If the person in question walks up to you and asks you to take them hunting, do it!
If you mention to them that you hunt and they ask to go along, take them!

Otherwise, it is probably not that important to them or they would have already found a way to accomplish it.

--Mike

I doubt I would have ever undertaken hunting on my own as I never thought about it. I was taught how to shoot when I was 9 and it wasn't until I was 47 that hunting even came up. A friend who had a hernia drew an elk tag and needed someone to come along and be the muscle. That was my introduction to hunting. We've drawn a tag a few times since and I enjoy the challenge. I never would have done it on my own but once introduced, I found I like it.

Matt,

Donating or loaning a rifle for such a cause would be a good idea. Once introduced, they might take it up and from there, pass it on to their kids or friends.

Ken....

Gatogordo,

Wow, another brilliant spot of deduction on your part...

I very much doubt things have changed that much in the 20 odd years I've been out of the service. This may come as quite a shock to some folks who've either never served, or never served AS ENLISTED MEN.

But, here goes, THE PAY SUCKS!! Now before anyone jumps on me and says "They shouldn't be there for the pay.." Let me explain. When you BARELY make enough money to keep your family fed and a roof over your head, non-essentials like hunting have to take a back seat to reality. Sure that jr enlisted guy might love a hunting rifle and a scope, but when the transmission in their family car takes a dump, or the kids need clothes for school (see, kids GROW, and their clothes stop fitting), guess which one gets the money. There are service members all over the world that make those kinds of decisions every day.

I used to take food, formula, and diapers to a couple of the jr enlisted's on my crew because they couldn't make ends meet. They were that tight. They did not have a flashy car or a big car payment, and they lived in a crap hole trailer in a trailer park. The only reason I was able to do it, was I didn't have kids at the time myself. I never made a big deal of it at the time, I knew they needed it, and I also new it embarrassed them, so I kept it as low key as I could and never mentioned it around the unit.

Some base assignments, the unemployment rate for dependent spouses was through the roof. In other words, the spouse sat home because there were no jobs in the area, so they lived souley on the single income of the enlisted man. I was personally assigned to several duty stations like that, and no, you don't get to ask for reassignment just because your spouse can't find a job.

So, to put a point on it, Gatogordo, the service man may not have the money for the rifle, etc, but they get paid leave off from duty. This means it's kind of like paid vacation, so your statement:

"The second reason is related to the first, if they can't afford one on their own then they don't need to be taking time off to go hunting."

has no bearing on the matter whatsoever, when they're on paid leave, it's the same income as when they're on duty.

Quite frankly your asinine statement reveals you have no clue as to the conditions you're making bold statements about. The idea here is to add a quality of life element to some service men to show our thanks for their service to us and our country.

If you don't want to contribute, fine, don't. But trying to take a piss on the idea before it really gets off the ground is low, even for you. I thought your comments about the missing AZ outfitter were bad, but this beats it.

Ok, rant off.

To the OP, Matt, my apologies for the rant.

I don't really have any rifles to donate directly, but I'm open to the idea of donating money to the cause. Maybe some kind of reoccurring donation, as it sounds like this activity is done every year? Also, maybe we could organize some kind of raffle event to raise money?

You can either PM me or let me know in the thread if you have any other donation ideas?

quote:

Originally posted by Heat:
...A friend who had a hernia drew an elk tag and needed someone to come along and be the muscle. That was my introduction to hunting. We've drawn a tag a few times since and I enjoy the challenge. I never would have done it on my own but once introduced, I found I like it.

The key here is the word, "FRIEND."

If a friend asked anyone here to help them do just about ANYTHING because of an inability to get it done by themselves, for any reason, let alone injury, which of us would say no?

Once you find you have a common "bond" with your friend, whether it be hunting, bowling or snowboarding, you tend to stick with it for awhile, even if it is just because of the friendship.

Slowpokeslim:

Since my judgement is so flawed, QUICK, before the story comes out, how much do you want to bet on the "missing outfitter's story" being pure bullshit (my side of the bet) and I'll donate 1/2 my winnings to the poor enlisted man's rifle fund?

I'll give you 30 minutes from now to put up or shut up. Reason for time limit should be obvious.

quote:

Originally posted by Slowpoke Slim:
Gatogordo,

Wow, another brilliant spot of deduction on your part...

I very much doubt things have changed that much in the 20 odd years I've been out of the service. This may come as quite a shock to some folks who've either never served, or never served AS ENLISTED MEN.

But, here goes, THE PAY SUCKS!! Now before anyone jumps on me and says "They shouldn't be there for the pay.." Let me explain. When you BARELY make enough money to keep your family fed and a roof over your head, non-essentials like hunting have to take a back seat to reality. Sure that jr enlisted guy might love a hunting rifle and a scope, but when the transmission in their family car takes a dump, or the kids need clothes for school (see, kids GROW, and their clothes stop fitting), guess which one gets the money. There are service members all over the world that make those kinds of decisions every day.

Slowpoke Slim , you must have missed this part:

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Now specifically, if I knew someone who was an exception to the above general observations for some reason (which I really can't think of what that would be right now), I'd be more than willing to help them with equipment and a place to hunt in Texas.

My sister enlisted VOLUNTARILY this past year, and she did it KNOWING as you say, the pay sucks, as did everyone else who enlisted since it became VOLUNTARY.
That was before I graduated from High School or specifically, more than 30 years ago.

I am not belittling the sacrifice, or their service, BUT, and it’s a BIG BUT, these people enlist V-O-L-U-N-T-A-R-I-L-Y knowing the pay sucks and as a bonus you could get shipped off and used for target practice, etc.

I appreciate EVERY MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD who sacrifices their time protecting their country in ANY service (police and fire included), but don’t give me the old sob story about them getting underpaid. They KNEW that going in.

I forgot to add:

Last year I ran into the mom of a friend of mine. He has a brother who's son is 20 and had enlisted in the National Guard, ARMY National Guard, that is. The Grandma was lamenting that the grandson was being shipped off to Iraq to fight and that's not what he signed up for.

I politely asked her,
"What do you think the M16 he was issued when he went to training was for? Crowd control? He did join the ARMY National Guard, right"

Well, gee, times up and Slowpoke has been on site the whole time without piping up on a bet......I guess he's not so certain my deductions are as bad as he seems to think they are. Why am I not surprised? Like my Grandaddy said, "Talk's cheap, but it takes real money to buy drinking whisky".......a dictum that I suspect the "missing" outfitter had in mind as well.

BTW I truly appreciate the multiple sacrifices the men and women of our Armed Forces make everyday. I deeply regret that many of those sacrifices are the result of flawed political decisions but that is not their fault.

OK hero,

I just got back from the post office to get a money order for the wood set I said "I will take" in the classified section. Sorry I didn't see your post in time. Look it up if you want, it's a Contender wood set. Sorry your conspiracy theory doesn't work in this case either.

Why only half your "winnings"? It's not like you'll have earned any of it.

I'll step up and bet you $250 over the AZ outfitter issue. BUT ONLY if you agree to send the whole $250 to the cause on this thread if you're proven right. If I win the bet, I will do the same.

How's them apples?

EDIT--

Here's your "conspiracy":

Oh and OTHER THAN ABOUT YOUR CHILDISH "BET",

Any other mud slinging and name calling you should just send me in a PM, I'm more than "game" for you, but I'm already sorry I stooped to your level and trashed Matt's thread.

So, other than this "bet" of yours, lets take it to PM's.

OK?

Maybe I missed something, I thought the question was would you or wouldn't you? I happened to think it was a decent idea, I needed alot more details, but I'm not opposed to giving a worthy soldier a rifle. That said all Gato said was no he wouldn't and point out his reasons. Myself and Gato disagree on this and I don't know him, so I'm not "sticking up for a buddy", I just don't think he said anything that unreasonable. I think any reasonable person knows that the typical soldier doesn't make near enough for what they do. This kind of charity doesn't happen to be Gato's brand of vodka, not sure that makes him "assonine". As a matter of fact, even though I said in an oddly similar post on the lost guide thread, while I hope he is wrong about that man, seems like a pretty logical hypothesis to me.

If you are getting together donated arms for AD folks to use, perhaps you should be getting shotguns instead of rifles.

The deer hunting I have done on .mil land was shotgun only, hence the rifled slug barrel in my safe.

YMMV

Good point I have seen that alot are shotgun or muzzleloader only.

Slowpokeslim:

Well, let's see I can make a bet that I can lose $250 to a cause I don't care to support, or I can lose $250 to you........let me think for a nanosecond......naaaaaa, I don't think so......

Making stupid bets are not what got me where I am.....nor believing stupid stories about being hit on the head........I'll leave both those areas to you.

Huh?

The bet was your idea there tough guy.

You're funny.

Really.

I'm done with you.

Matt,

Let me know what you can come up with, I stand ready to contribute my small part.

Yeah, I'm tough enough not to be an idiot like you. Go buy some MORE ocean front Nevada property.

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
If you are getting together donated arms for AD folks to use, perhaps you should be getting shotguns instead of rifles.

The deer hunting I have done on .mil land was shotgun only, hence the rifled slug barrel in my safe.

YMMV

For what it's worth, the Marines that hunt around here use rifles and bows. On the local Marine base, they can only use bows, but on the deer hunt we have for them each year, they all use rifles. Many of them are experienced hunters, but others are new to the sport. We always offer to find the new guys a gun to use and work with the day before the hunt so they'll be used to it.
The guys love to hunt and many of the Marines take it up regularly after having the experience. The easy 1-hour drive to Ft Benning and its massive hunting areas becomes a favorite pastime for the guys throughout the year. Again they use rifles for the deer and hog hunting there.
Shotguns might be nice, but for the Marines I've been around, a good rifle is what's in demand.

2005 Marine Appreciation Day Deer hunt

Thank you Vic for getting this thread back in the direction it was intended. For those of you that haven't noticed, the Political thread is a couple categories down. Go down there and show your cyber ass all you want.

But for those of you that have a dilema as to 'what to do with Uncle Frank's deer rifle'....this might (key word MIGHT) be the way to have it live on quite nicely. A nice legacy where it continues to hunt on in the hands of a deserving person.

'nuff said

Matt,
In that picture above are some real American heroes. One lived in a tent for 11 months on a mountain in Kosovo, another is the guy that can get a M1 tank back in service after it has been blasted, another keeps our fighter jets armed and dangerous, while others can tell you what it's like to kick in a door in Fallujah without knowing what might kill them on the other side.
When they're rotated back into the US and stationed at a base far from home, the chance to tell them thanks, to share the love of hunting that is important to many of us and give these guys a break from the rigors of The Corps, seems like the right thing to do.
For some of them the chance to have a freezer full of venison is welcomed by their families, and for others it’s a chance to share some of their harvest with other brothers in arms back at the base. Guns for use off base aren't part of their deal, but low pay is. The opportunity to let these guys know how much we appreciate their sacrifice; guys that are willing to stand on the front line to back all of the things that are the most important to me in my family, to me is an important thing. Some of guys here don’t seem to share that view, trivializing what they do as something they happened to sign up for, and these guys are willing to fight for that right as well. It’s a free country, they say, but to me there’s a debt to be paid to those that keep it that way.

2008 Marine Appreciation Day Deer Hunt



Think a blood trail can hide from these guys?

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Norman:
But for those of you that have a dilema as to 'what to do with Uncle Frank's deer rifle'....this might (key word MIGHT) be the way to have it live on quite nicely. A nice legacy where it continues to hunt on in the hands of a deserving person.

'nuff said

Matt,
I asked earlier, are you putting something together? I would possibly do something like this just not sure exactly what you are proposing. So if you could fill in the blanks for me I would appreciate it.

I would consider donating a rifle and I have one that would be great for it but only to the right person . I have done it twice before and it is a great feeling especially when that person comes back years later and tells you how much it meant to them.

Justin and Wetdog, PM sent

Thank you!

Over the last six years, I have donated a shotgun, two AR's and a .308 Win Remington "varmint rifle" that I worked on and is now named "Scary Mary" for beanfield hunting. These helped these young men "get started" in their hunting lives. It has been much more gratifying for me than them.

Matt,

I got your PM.

Thanks.

I have a couple of rifles that may end up being perfect for the cause. Unfortunately, both are "spoken for" to my two nephews for now. Those kids are still too young and not yet responsible enough for any shooting. Both are "family" guns, one was my father's Rem 308, the other was my uncle's Win 30-06. It will be a few years before I know whether or not they are going to my nephews or not.

The reason for the ramble, is I assume there is more or less a general preference as to what is usable? Since it looks like deer and hogs, are you looking for say, 270-308-3006 range of calibers? I could probably start shopping around the used gun racks here locally to see what's around? What about a "cheap" rifle such as a Stevens 200? I know they're ugly as hell, but I have one in .223 that works fine and is accurate, and it was cheap, under $300 delivered. I use it for brush busting coyotes. I was trying to think of "bang for the buck" getting the most out of the donated amount?

Would you rather have some rifles shipped, or just money sent and do the purchasing locally?

Another thing is scopes, I don't know if Cameraland still has any, but I bought 3 of those "Pentax" marked Burris FFII's a while back and they were $89 each. Not a bad price for a Burris 3-9 scope...

I realize the prospects of a Stevens 200 with a "Pentax" Burris 3-9 scope on it probably isn't anyone's idea of a "dream rifle", but for a knock about "truck gun" to get a guy started out with?? Maybe he could "trade up" later and return the ugly stick to the cause?

Slowpoke, I've been in communication directly with Vic Sullivan on this matter. I'll PM you with further info.

Matt

Thanks for the info. I spoke with Vic. Everything is a go on my end.

Looking at these photos brings back memories! I was 17 when my parents co-signed my Marine Corps enlistment papers five months before I graduated High School. It was a fast five months to finish school and get that diploma. It was my ticket to freedom from our family farm. We were young and full of piss and vinegar. The words no, can’t and quit were not in our vocabulary, along with I, me and you

Thanks for putting this out on the forum! I owe a lot of the success in my life to the discipline, self-worth and self-confidence along with a can do attitude that I learned in the Corps. The Stars and Stripes and the Eagle, Globe and Anchor fly in my front yard every day.

People don’t have to donate a rifle. They are looking for smaller items as well, range finder, binoculars, hunting knife, and day pack. If you all are like me, you are upgrading you stuff from time to time and have items that you have not used for a good while. These can all mean a lot to a young service member.

Thanks again Matt!
Semper Fi

Matt,

My care package(s) went out today. You have a PM.

Thank you for this, it meant a lot to me.

Shameless bump for a great cause.