Several of the local outfitters here have told me that Colorado plans to go to a total draw for tags in 2014. Has anyone else here heard that rumor?

It won't effect me. I apply for all my tags. 1st season elk is draw only. Same for moose & high country buck. Bob

I talk to the DOW several times a year for various reasons, this spring I'd heard this same rumor and was told by a knowledgeable DOW admin that this was only a rumor and I see no sign of it on the website under their long range planning outline.
All the over the counter tag sales would stop and that is a huge revenue boost each year, I say its BS.

The current 5 year plan ends in 2015 and yes ALL elk tags will be by limited draw, its not a rumor. CPW created a very poor hunting experience with the 2 OTC seasons and maintaining herd objectives has been difficult. Limiting tags ups the success rate with fewer hunters and equals a more quality experience for all as it now is for mule deer. Also be prepared once again for substantial increases in tag fees for residents and non residents.

Will there still be landowner tags for the Ranches?
W

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BighornBreath:
Limiting tags ups the success rate with fewer hunters and equals a more quality experience for all as it now is for mule deer. QUOTE]

I suppose that is a matter of opinion as to whether it is a more quality experience for ALL. For example, those who won't actually get a tag to hunt may not feel it is a higher quality hunt. It is a question of hunting values or hunting goals as to whether it is better to hunt every year and have only opportunities for cows or young bulls with 4x4 racks versus hunt every 4 years and have an opportunity for a 6x6 bull or a 7x7 bull.

Assuming your information is accurate, it sounds like this decision has been made and the choice of one set of values over another has been made. I speak for the hunter values that prefer to go elk hunting every year and am satisfied with a cow or a 4x4 bull. They both taste great; the hunting experience is great too.

It also occurs to me that if the number of permits gets throttled down -- and I assume that is the ultimate direction of this if more elk are left walking to build a stock of more mature bulls -- that is going to translate to fewer nights in hotel rooms, fewer meals in restaurants, fewer gas stops along the way.

I'm not beating up on you, BighornBreath, just sounding off.

No worries. The concern is, and this is the opinion of those who vote on these matters, is that the state is growing at a frenzied pace and with development can't sustain current or past herd numbers.

I know of 11 ranches of 4000 acres or more being sold this year so far. Of the 11, 10 are being developed and subdivided. CDOW is hoping that with limited licences it can better maintain objectives.

This state will never break the 400,000 mark on deer ever again. Most of the west slope herds can't sustain a favorable fawn to adult ratio. I think if the post herd estimate this year is at least 325,000 then lots of people will be happy.

So if Colorado thine the elk herd down to 250,000 or so, limit licences thereby increasing mature bull numbers, then they can get whatever they want in tag prices.

It's all politics and the greed of money in the end. I'm sure hunting as I knew as a kid is extinct. 300 for gas, 2000 for tags, 300 for groceries, etc. It's all out of hand unfortunatly.

Bighorn Breath
Where did you get your info that lies beyond the current 5 year plan?
I can't find it on the DOW site and No one at DOW I talked to has said a word beyond the current outline.
Help me out here please.

i was wondering how long they were gonna let things go.
i haven't hunted there but have been there several times during the hunt.
you couldn't pay me to hunt in that meelee.
people coming into town wanting to buy doe tags for deer they had allready shot.
hotels crammed full,can't get a seat in a restaurant.
gun handling on par with monkey's.
2 point deer touted as trophy bucks.
the highway out to the "hunting grounds" crammed down to a crawl because someone seen a deer by the road yeaterday.
guys marching through the woods like they are on a pheasant hunt.
and that was just the stuff i seen while driving through the oil field roads,and while driving truck through the area.

Not calling anyone out, but I'd like to see some reliable sources on this. Colorado is the last OTC state, and I find it very hard to swallow that they're going to throw about a multi-million dollar a year business plan. They've been adding more and more B tags, an extra month long season in Gunnison, and out of state elk hunting more less funds the entire CPW department. Lots of under drawn units with elk populations higher then they want to handle. Not to mention with our brothers to the North watching their elk vanish (wolves) it has/will continue to increase the amount of hunters in CO. Biologists may clamor and shout for better quality animals, and a better hunting experience...but they're not in charge. Government talking heads are, and all they see is $$$$

Granted total unlimited archery and muzzle loader tags are history now. But still, 2 OTC seasons, one of which was increased from 5 to 9 days a year or two ago. Just doesn't seem to add up to me. But what do I know?

Although, maybe they've been having success with the OTC w/caps deal like in 54 for 2nd season? I saw camps all over, outfitters, trailers, so on and so forth, but I only saw another hunter ONCE in 8 days of hunting. I could see that being a good business/game plan, continue on with the limited draw for the best units, and go a capped OTC system, with the number of tags being based on populations of various units.

MHS
I hope they don't. It was just what was mentioned at the DOW/Outfitter meeting here in Pagosa. I can't see them standing for the revenue loss but for the last, what is it 4 or 5 years now, put a cap on the OTC archery bear tags? Deer went to a total draw.........I can't see where it has made the deer herd around here any better. I do however notice the lack of more mature bucks on my place. Usually have at least one mature 5 x 5 running around but this year the biggest I have laid eyes on here was a young 4 x.

Well I was seeing a nice increase in both numbers and quality of deer until the 07-08 winter. All that work and restriction was wiped out with one horrible winter. The fall of 07 I saw 4 extremely large mule deer, all trophies by anyone's standard, within 500 yards of each other, and only a few hundred yards for a major road. Each buck had a nice group of doe's with him. And then.....gone. I've yet to see a real mature trophy since then. I have seen some very, very nice bucks, including a massive 3x3 (his brother/uncle/cousin/whatever was killed by a friends niece a few days earlier 2 ridges away, the bucks were near identical so some bad genes managed to live through the winter and bred like crazy).

What I haven't seen yet in a few years now, is anything I'd be happy about burning 6-8 pref. points on. I think their goal of 50:100 ratio is stretching reality, something tells me before they really start getting close we'll see another die off. What they need to do is thin out the herd PERIOD, let us shoot some dang doe's again in the SW part of the state, reduce the overall numbers and allow for more resources for fewer animals.

The Gunnison Valley area deer management is going under review this year and there should be some changes next year, according to the Gunnison news paper. They're still on the fence about quality/opportunity.