On TV last night I watched a fellow named Jon Bruson allow his two kids to shoot a longhorn steer and a Zebu brahman steer or perhaps they were bulls or cows, don't know, all behind a high fence...What I do know is domestic cattle when I see them. they grazed and totally ignored being hunted and if they had honked their horn those cows would have come a running..Ive raised both long horns and zebu brahmans, they gentle right down in a day or two of feeding...Ive wrangled them, roped their calves to the branding fire, roped the adults and doctored them in a pasture, just like a Herford, Angus or any other breed of cattle..

This is the stuff that antis thrive on..shooting domestic cattle or any domestic animal is criminal and totally non sportsman and a hell of a way to raise your kids.

Having been a cowboy and rancher off and on most of my life, maybe Im over sensitive, but some things are just wrong..

I shot excessive animals we have.

Nothing wrong with it.

We had some brahma's that
should have been shot!

Several we had to carry a
club when in the corral
with 'em to keep 'em out of
our ass pockets.

George

I have had to shoot wild cattle before.
A couple of lessons:
1) Be careful to kill it with the first shot as they are big and tough.
2) Do not film it.
3) Do not post on social media or any other media!

All the cattle I have shot have been with a 22lr to the brain before butchering them.

Ray,
How many large Texas ranch houses or lodges have you seen that did NOT have longhorn shoulder mounts or at least the horns displayed on a wall?
Heck, even I have a 6x6 elk rack outdoors on a wall above our courtyard!
Maybe you have been away too long?

Also poplar for display are the African Watusi horns, shoulder mounts of black Spanish fighting bulls, African kudu, water buff, Bison, plus all manner of goat, deer and elk mounts. All of these and more are available on Texas exotic ranches.

Probably not the best idea to film it and put it on TV.
The other side of the coin, when I was a lot younger my cousin was told by a landowner to hunt down 2 Bulls that had been living in the timber and brush on several hundred acres with no contact for about 8 years (thick brush timber and hills in Oregon's wet side) the people who owned the land were afraid of them and they were about as wild as cattle can get.
My cousin had quite a bit of experience killing elk and tons of deer but it took a lot of hunting and a bit of shooting to get the first one with a close quarters charge at the end. He said he was under gunned with a .270 and 130 grain bullets. If I recall I think he switched to a 30/06 and took several days of hunting to root the last one out of the brush and get shots.
He said it was far more difficult and hair raising than you would think, but Oregon's foothills surrounding the Willamette valley are really thick with brush and timber and steep, no walk in the park.

When you are hunting cattle, use solids or at least premiums.

I see a new SCI Award in the making

Ray the first and bigger bull was a Watusi steaks of which I have eaten in the past....tough, stringy and grainy. Some ranches sell them under the guise of "filling your freezer". Can not imagine anyone going back and getting some meat a second time after eating a freezer full of that stuff.

Ray's post was not intended to do anything except point out that : 1. Kids need parents wiser than themselves.
2. Why provide antis with valid reasons to prohibit hunting?

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
All the cattle I have shot have been with a 22lr to the brain before butchering them.

Be too brother, me too.

Since I hunt, the wife's family put me in charge of killing the cows every year. It's NOT the same thing as hunting and I got no joy out of the cow's demise albeit a necessary part of the process.
Zeke

Another reason I am totally happy that I am no
longer tempted to view Outdoor Channel shows. Time Warner recently dropped it from my package of channels.

I agree with Ray. This does not present a good image of hunters. It makes it look like the only objective is to kill something. It has nothing to do with wildlife conservation, enjoying being out in nature, or hunting with good friends. I don't have a problem if someone wants to go shoot a cow, but don't put it on TV, and don't try to pass it off as hunting.

they do it here for free every hunting season.

you should see how mad a rancher gets when he catches someone trying to drag an 800 lb. brown cow under one of his fences.

I have known a few Holstein bulls that I would have happily shot. Those things can be every bit as dangerous as any hoofed animal on the planet. When I was a kid I knew every farmer within a few miles that had one and I never crossed a pasture without being damn sure that beast was not out. A very few of them are trustworthy almost all the time. Most of them will run you down and stomp you dead given a chance. When they get out, it's just as easy to get them to chase you home as it is to corral them up and get a rope on the ring.

quote:

I have known a few Holstein bulls that I would have happily shot.

Indeed!

Another for Ray who said:
"Ive raised both long horns and zebu brahmans, they gentle right down in a day or two of feeding."

And then when you are not looking, they run you through with a horn! A pet longhorn bull did just that to my cousin a few years ago on his OK ranch. Had to drive himself to the Denison, TX hospital with two holes in his abdomen. It took some good surgery to fix that. It was not the first time the bull has been surly and he should have had it for BBQ before it attacked him. It did not get another chance.

A rooster (now departed) recently attacked my wife when she was feeding him and some hens.

Animals, tame or wild, can do surprising things. IMHO, when they forget who is boss, it is time for them to become dinner(or fertilizer).

quote:

Originally posted by ZekeShikar:

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
All the cattle I have shot have been with a 22lr to the brain before butchering them.

Be too brother, me too.

Since I hunt, the wife's family put me in charge of killing the cows every year. It's NOT the same thing as hunting and I got no joy out of the cow's demise albeit a necessary part of the process.
Zeke

I'm a little confused by your post. Your wife's family puts you in charge of killing the cows every year? Is this a working cattle ranch or what kind of operation is it? Is it just to butcher them?Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by Randy Routier:

quote:

Originally posted by ZekeShikar:

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
All the cattle I have shot have been with a 22lr to the brain before butchering them.

Be too brother, me too.

Since I hunt, the wife's family put me in charge of killing the cows every year. It's NOT the same thing as hunting and I got no joy out of the cow's demise albeit a necessary part of the process.
Zeke

I'm a little confused by your post. Your wife's family puts you in charge of killing the cows every year? Is this a working cattle ranch or what kind of operation is it? Is it just to butcher them?Thanks

Don't be confused Randy.
It was a small family cattle operation and we butchered 2-3 cows every year for our own consumption. We did all the raising, killing, drawing and quartering, aging, butchering, wrapping ourselves.
So yes, when the wife's parents were alive, I had the chore of shooting the cows, after we lead them up the ramp into the back of the truck so we could drive under the gambrel.

Zeke

With cattle prices as low as they are, if someone offered to "hunt" one of our's, I'd let them!

quote:

With cattle prices as low as they are, if someone offered to "hunt" one of our's, I'd let them!

Yep, cows $2,500 and bulls a mere $4,500 and think of all of that fine organic, grass fed beef you could fill your freezer with.

I would rather shoot a cow out from under a feeder, rather than a deer. Same "hunt" more meat.

quote:

I have known a few Holstein bulls that I would have happily shot. Those things can be every bit as dangerous as any hoofed animal on the planet.

Father in-law had a couple on the farm big and mean.

They would smash at the bull pen sides to try and get you for just walking by.

I was glad when we shipped them they weighed over 2000lbs

I saw a show where they were hunting feral cattle in Hawaii, hunts are offered.
I hear the Scrub Bulls in Australia are a good hunt.

I asked a customer we have who is a real cowboy in Arizona about feral cattle. He said there are quite a few out where they run cattle. If they don't get rounded up after a few years they are pretty mean. If they are causing problems with the cattle he is running the feral has a bad day. They tried eating one but was tough and bad. Buzzards have to eat too.

M

I spent a good deal of my life roping wild cattle, and yes Ive had to shoot a few, but I don't call that hunting anymore than shooting mustangs as hunting..Killing a calf to eat is one thing but this is another, when they just stand there waiting for some hay and you shoot them, if you want to call that hunting then shooting on 5 acres under a high fence is hunting..

We have rules referred to as sportsmanship IMO..to each his own, but to me it was and is a disgrace to the hunting world. Shooting even a mean bull is uncalled for, rope him and/or pen him, haul him to the saturday sale, for a number of reasons such as who wants one rotting in your pasture, they are not etable, that's what real ranchers do. Those long horns referred to as hanging on the wall, or 99% of the time old steers that died of old age or the horns were procured at the processing plant.

anyway I don't approve of hunting cattle, horses, or wild life of any kind under high fence on small acreage that does not allow an escape route,

quote:

Originally posted by ZekeShikar:

quote:

Originally posted by Randy Routier:

quote:

Originally posted by ZekeShikar:

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
All the cattle I have shot have been with a 22lr to the brain before butchering them.

Be too brother, me too.

Since I hunt, the wife's family put me in charge of killing the cows every year. It's NOT the same thing as hunting and I got no joy out of the cow's demise albeit a necessary part of the process.
Zeke

I'm a little confused by your post. Your wife's family puts you in charge of killing the cows every year? Is this a working cattle ranch or what kind of operation is it? Is it just to butcher them?Thanks

Don't be confused Randy.
It was a small family cattle operation and we butchered 2-3 cows every year for our own consumption. We did all the raising, killing, drawing and quartering, aging, butchering, wrapping ourselves.
So yes, when the wife's parents were alive, I had the chore of shooting the cows, after we lead them up the ramp into the back of the truck so we could drive under the gambrel.

Zeke

Gotcha

Nothing wrong with that Zeke, most ranchers do that..

Guess its just the cowboy in me, I can't understand hunting cattle, horses, or gentle dogs, cats, any kind of pet, pasture pets or otherwise..wild cats and dogs killing domestic stock is a whole nuther deal, you have to protect the herd..

Some of you could probably get a Rambolet sheep hunt for next to nothing..maybe a Poland china hog or two!!

Ray,
You reminded me that my 600 pound Hogzilla was a feral Duroc! But she was running with a bad crowd.

Many of us raised on a farm/ranch of some sort raising different types of animals had to deal with the inevitable. Processing meat for consumption, or putting injured or sick animals out of their misery. It is an act not relished but it is a fact of life and it is not hunting.
Undomesticated feral animals roaming free, can be challenging and is hunting.
Shooting an animal out of a cage, pasture with enclosed fencing in a small area with no ability to escape is not hunting.
Dangerous domestic stock relieved of their ability to act, is not hunting.
Tv shows in their zest to fill a slot with anything having to do with killing without boundaries, portraying it as acceptable and for the world to view what hunters are all about. Is a backdoor stab at hunters from our own representatives and is a disgrace. Reminds me why I stopped watching tv in years.
This is my personal opinion with no judgment on yours. Ray you are my hero.

Years ago Murray Burnham wrote about a wild cow hunt in the cane breaks along the Rio Grand in West Texas. These were truly feral animals and Murray compared it to hunting Cape Buffalo.

20 years ago I hunted in Australia with Bob Penfold. We did a great deal of shooting but the best 'hunt' I got there was for 'scrub bull' (feral cattle). They were wiley and moved through the brush very well. I whacked a gnarley old bull a couple times with a 375 H&H and it tried to mount a charge as we closed within 35 yards of it. I then used Bob's .458 and to finish it. I was impressed at how sporty they were. This was on a remote million acre ' station' and these feral cattle were several generations in the making.

quote:

Originally posted by Walker:
Years ago Murray Burnham wrote about a wild cow hunt in the cane breaks along the Rio Grand in West Texas. These were truly feral animals and Murray compared it to hunting Cape Buffalo.

. I remember a similar article in American Hunter by Finn Aagard.

When I was a kid my parents raised steers for the butcher shop owned by them as well. I well recall a pair herford bulls that got out of their pasture and lived free for the summer on a overgrown tangle of a hillside. At dusk they would venture out and graze in our grass field by dawn they were back on that 10 acre hillside. We tried to catch them up or drive them back to the back a couple times to no avail. By Thanksgiving they were wild and nasty. We put a drive on for them like we did for deer an when 1 came out my grandfather put a 220gr 30-06 behind his shoulder as he went by. He went right back into that tangle of stickers and brush and my dad and gramps tracked him up while I stood guard at the opposite end of the mess. Pretty soon I hear 2 quick shots then gramps called to go get the tractor and a chain. That ornery SOB was watching his back trail and charged when he saw them. Both gramps and dad put rounds under his skull plate at the same time. Gramps said that is as close as he would ever get to hunting cape buffalo.

quote:

All the cattle I have shot have been with a 22lr to the brain before butchering them.

This

I’ve roped an awful lot of wild cattle and shot a handful. It was always a bit of a scarlet letter to have to shoot one that you couldn’t get to the pens. Nothing too sporting about shooting a wild one let alone a pet steer.
I shot the longhorn that hangs in my office but I honked the horn and when he ran up, he got one from my Winchester Trapper in .357. Probably not the most thrilling thing I did that day.
On a lighter note, I’ve got a few thousand yearlings contracted that if the trophy fee was right, I’ll let you machine gun them for all I care.
Joking of course, I’d rather lose money on them the good old fashioned way than go in for these shenanigans.
I’ve shot plenty of dogs but I wouldn’t be too proud of calling myself a dog hunter.

ZZ,
You mentioned ranchers shooting dogs.
Understood, as more than one land owner has told me to shoot any coyotes or stray dogs that I came across on his property. Being and obliging guest, I did my best.

A couple of the Holsteins I've known were dangerous enough that in what I consider thick stuff up here they would make for some dicey hunting. Those guys were just plain dangerous and never could be trusted. I never learned enough about a few of them that there was any predicting what they would do. I think those animals would be more dangerous than most wild animals because they were used to people. They had a temperament as trustworthy as a pit bull whose mission in life was to tear you up. The were at that time necessary on a dairy farm. They killed a lot of farmers back then. I would not have felt the least bit bad shooting several of the ones I knew.

Back when most people lived on farms we knew studs, bulls and boars were dangerous.

Along with any female with a fairly new born.

Killing of domestic cattle under certain cercumstances isn't the question, calling it a sporting event is, its unsportsmanlike IMO..I spent years roping farmers bad cattle with Jim Bynum, we roped them dragged them in the trailer and hauled them to the sale barn..A few have to be shot, some for the freezer, some for the dump yard..but these were beautiful Long horns, and Zebu brahman looking for the pickup to drop off their morning hay, that was obvious..Its just wrong IMO..My opine and Im sticking to it..