Ok even though you've all worked hard and put far too much effort into this, no one has talked me out of the .358win yet. Thanks your all a great bunch of guys and hope to do the same for you some day.

But a guy I work, hunt and reload with is a true Mauser nut. 3rd order, gold wings with clusters. He saw my post and keeps bending my ear about the 8x57Mauser. He says "its a Mauser" "greater range of bullets 150gr to 220gr" " more velocity and engery" "it'll go great with your 6.5x55" and my favorite " its a Mauser".
I can't argue with his logic but I really can't see a nickle's worth of difference between the two, having never shot either. So all you .358win and 8x57 owners speak up. Which one would you recommend for deer hunting in Alabama. Shot run from 25yds to 250yds. Deer 75# to 225# and in some places you want to anchor them on the spot or your in trouble. Very dense pine thickets, hard to trail, its not pretty after dark. So whats your choice?

If you want a Mauser, why not the 9,3x57?

It is the rifle you have to choose not the caliber.If you have(or want) a short action go with ,358 if you have a long action go with 8*57.A old mauser action are very cheep both military and civilians.
If you want a mauser the 8*57is is a perfect choice at short ranges 200f.

To anchor a deer every time at woods ranges I do feel that a medium bore with a flat nosed bullet will be the most consistant. While a small bore may make a adequate wound channel the pointed premium bullets waste a lot of energy just expanding themselves. And on lung shots they don't expand at all until half way thru or whatever.

These threads by Mark65X55 are unique in that they bring out the only reason for the existance of the .358 Winchester. It is possible that I am wrong that it anchors deer better than a 30-06 or 7mm Mag but I don't think so.

In the long action cartridges like the 8X57 there is so much overlap that many of them may be OK but I have no experiance if there is a cut off diameter where say the 30-06 and some bore a little bit bigger has about the same effect. But it does start at .358" for sure.

Mauser to me means "famous old bolt rifle with slow lock time, soft steel and poor accuracy from the 19 century" The M-70 updated the Mauser details long ago.

As to which makes the better deer cartridge, either will do pretty much the same to the deer, which is not really very hard to kill. The 8 x 57 will shoot flatter and deliver a harder punch at the longer ranges, so I would pick it as the preferred deer cartridge. That's not to say that you would be disappointed with a .358, I just think you would find the 8 x 57 a bit more useful on whitetails.

Whichever you pick, have fun!

The 358 Win is a great 250 yd or less cartridge with 225 grn bullets. It will anchor from deer to elk in heart beat.

I think it beats the 8x57 hands down

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MED

The sole purpose of a rifle is to please its owner

The .358 Winchester, in a Mauser, all the way.
There are many Mauser 98 actions that are a bit too short for 30-06 length cartridges, that were made for the 7x57 and 8x57 rounds.'I prefer Mauser actions for my hunting rifles. I have several that will shoot from 3/8 to 1/2 inch with factory ammo. If the gunsmith knows what he is doing, they will shoot. I have a mint 1912/61 Mauser that was a 7x57 and converted to .308 by,I think Argentina or Brazil. One of those countries in South America. The barrel is a total loss. Gunsmiths just love corrosive ammo. As soon as the money becomes available, it will be a .358. For me, that says it all.
Paul B.

I like the 358 WIN. I hunt in the upper pennisula of MI in dense cedar swamps and the 200gr Hornady will flat anchor a whitetail. Look around and find a pre 64 M70 fwt. You'll have a classic rifle in a great calibre.

If you are talking the full length actoin, and a 358 diamater is what you want, go with the 35 Whelen improved. It fits into the action no problems, can be loaded to 358 win speed, but in the improved version can be loaded to 2800fps ++++ with 225gr bullets. 2650fsp or slightly more with 250's. And as fast as the bullets can be driven without rupturing with handgun designed bullets. Truly a mice to moose gun. In a short action, the 358 win is the hands down winner, but if the full length action is used the Whelen is the one. Both are reloading options now, and why not get the most for your wieght and versitility?

I purchased a modern 8x57 to compliment my 6.5x55. I hunt in woods were I am as likely to see a 15lb muntjac as a 27 stone red stag. Hence I choose the 8x57 shooting a 200 gr Barnes X or a 196 gr Norma Oryx at circa 2500 fps. There is plenty of brass and bullets about and it fits in a standard length action. The rifle BTW is a modern German Heym. It is also the rifle that comes to africa after bushveldt plains game and I would have no hesitation in using it on tough critters like zebra. Mine dropped a 650lb kudu on the spot last year, with the 196 gr Norma bullet at 50 metres. One shot, on the spot, finito.

At these modest velocites there is little meat damage too.

All that said I am not sure if my 6.5x55 will not do all of what I ask the 8x57. I am building a .33 cal 318 Westley Richards for the big plains game like eland (1500lbs plus) so the 8x57 may be redundant.

I have no knowledge of the 358 Win, but by the sound of it it will make a short and handy woods rifle.

Good luck.

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Regards

Richard

This is the total so far. Of 9 post we have
5 votes for the .358win, 2 for the 8x57, 1 for the 9.3x57 and one undecided. Must not be many 8mm fans on board.

Deerdogs. Check out (www.sixgunner.com). There is a two part article on the .358 Winchester you might find interesting. It's potential, according to the article is a bit more than a short range "brush gun".
I like the cartridge well enough that I have two rifles in the caliber and am considering building a third. The two I have are Ruger 77's, both on the tang safety model. I once asked a Rugre rep at an NRA convention if they'd bring out the Mannilicher stocked RSI in .358 and received a very rude "No F-----g way!" Hell of an attitude, if you ask me.

Mark. FWIW. There isn't anything wrong with the 8x57 as a cartridge goes. The problem here, is American ammo makers refuse to load it to it's full potential, which, in their case, I feel is good reason. There were many 8mm's that had a .318 inch bore and even more with a .323 inch bore. Why in hell the Germans made the bore change is beyond me and lost in the mists of time, as far as I know. Europeans however, know the difference and buy their ammo accordingly, which is loaded to it's full potential over there.
You can imagine what would happen if you had one with a .318 bore and you fired ammo with a .323 bore. So U.S. ammo is not only loaded down, but I understand the bullet may be of a compromise diameter. (.321 inch)
Check out the article I mentioned to Deerdogs, and go the .358. FWIW, the .358 is comparable to the 9x57mm Mauser.
Paul B.

My vote goes for the 8x57! IF you are planning on reloading for it. The factory loads are way too weak IMHO, I also remember hearing some time ago that the bullets in the factory loads are around .321, but I'm not 100% sure. I reload for the 8mm I'm still working on finding a good load for several different bullet weights, but so far my rifle (k98 bcd 4) really likes the 185 gr Remington Core-Lokt with (don't remember the charge) IMR 4064.

But which ever you choose (cou8x57gh), have fun with it (cou8x57gh). Both should serve you well (cou8x57gh).

The reason why american manufacturers load 8*57 so slow is what after the WW2 americans bringed 8mm mausers home and they were both 8mm and 8,2mms so the american manufacturers used a cal. in between with soft load.

Either will work. Either is a handloading proposition for good loads. Having said that, I favor the .358. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

The 225 Nosler B-Tip is a long bullet (made for the Whelen) that ought to really shine in the .358, and the longer Mauser magazine accommodates it much better than the standard 2.8 inch short mag. does.

My 2 centavos
BigIron

Someone recommended the .358 in a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight. Although both the caliber and the rifle are excellent, I understand that the combination produces a rifle that develops quite a strong kick.

In my opinion, if you are likely to have longish shots (250 yards or more) the 8x57 would be a better choice. If I were shooting moose or large bears at 50 yards or less I think I'd choose the .358 Otherwise the two seem sufficiently similar to me that there's no great reason to choose one over the other.

First post, hi everyone.

I'll chime in here with another suggestion.

I decided some time back that I had to have a 358 I also wanted a lever gun. The closest thing I could find in something I liked was a Winchester Big Bore in 356 Winchester.

The 356 is just a 308/358 case with a rim. I haven't hasd a chance to reload for it yet, but with Winchester factory ammo I got 2030 fps with 250gr and 2300 fps with 200gr flatpoints. 20" barrel.

At seven pounds, it should make a fine woods gun, and do a nice job on feral pigs. It kicks pretty hard, though. About like my friend's 10 pound 375H&H.

Factory ammo is of course hard to find at your local Wal-Mart, but I haven't seen a lot of 358 either. 356/358 cartridges will cost you between $25-$30 per box of 20, so I wouldn't recommend them if you don't reload.

Paco states that you can just load your 356 with 358 brass, but mine will not extract them. Also, the walls of the 356 cartridge are thicker, having about 5% less case capacity. Just FYI.

Good luck whatever you decide.

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No one has thrown in a great 250 yard hammer. The .350 Remington Mag. this year 5 shots and the total distance traveled by 5 deer in Alabama about 35 yards.

LE270. If you know where there is a reeasonably priced Winchester Model 70 Featherweight in .358, let me know. There hasn't been one made in years, that I know of. Maybe through the Winchester custom shop.
FWIW. I have the Ruger 77 with a synthetic stock that weighs about 6.75 pounds with scope, sling and full magazine. The kick of the .358 has been greatly exaggerated, IMHO.
Paul B.