I had a post here a few days ago searching for a 300 WSM for a buddy interested in starting to hunt. Same guy was taking some "use or loose" vacation time in Big Bend. He set out from his camp at 8:30 AM alone with a camera and a canteen.
Told me the stand off lasted 20 minutes without ever loosing sight of the lion. He got as big as he could, arms raised and shouted. This staved off several charges that got closer and closer. Eventually the lion was no longer impressed with shouting and rock throwing. He said he took several photos during the stand off while his asshole was cutting washers. Eventually swiped at him and took him down by grabbing his calf muscle. Said three claws were punstures and one was hooked through skin and muscle. At this time he said he had a 3-4 pound rock and began to bash the brains out of it. This guy was my roomate and best man. He doesn't tell tales and was able to bench press 365 pounds while weighing only 165 pounds. A good solid guy. Still couldn't kill a lion with a rock, but sure would have been cool.
Lion eventually tracked down and shot later that night. He actually heard the hounds and shot after driving 120 miles each way to Alpine to get looked at and Tetanused.
He told me he was thinking about nothing but guns and hunting the entire ride back to Ft. Worth. We're gonna do a Russian boar hunt in a month or so to pop his cherry. May consider letting him get after one with dogs and handgun. If he can maintin his composure for a 20 minute stand off and go at it with stone knives and bear skins, I think he's gonna really enjoy hunting. Here's the link.
Well, for one, he's a current non gun having type guy. He's shot mine during college, but I never gave him the 8 hour gun safety course to be self sufficient. I never gave him a gun to have and he lacked the knowledge to purchase one himself. Third, and I'll go out on a limb, but I don't believe guns are permitted in the National Parks. There are signs at our State Parks here in NM stating guns are prohibited. What laws supersceed others, I don't know. He's not a gun freak enough yet to just carry and disregard laws like most do.
Posts: 346 | Location: Las Cruces, New Mexico | Registered: 05 January 2002
My wife & I just returned from Big Bend National Park. There was a sign at the main campground about lions in the vicinity and to avoid certain areas at dusk & dawn. There are also signs saying no firearms allowed in the park.
Posts: 9487 | Location: Texas Hill Country | Registered: 11 January 2002
I WOULD RATHER GET CAUGHT WITH A GUN IN A NATIONAL PARK THAN HAVE MY ASS MAULED BY A LION, I WILL TAKE MY CHANCES, SAME WITH A CONCEALED WEAPON, AND A CRACKHEAD THUG
I am not trying to blow my own horn, but I work for Homeland Security and carry a gun. Can carry it anywhere I want to, even planes. Not all "cops" are pricks. That's why I worded it accordingly. If I found you somewhere you are not legally supposed to be carrying a firearm(other than on the plane) and your not of the asshole variety, so be it. Too much bullshit between states, just do it. The guy in question, as I said is currently not proficient in firearms.......yet. Had I been with him, it would have taken one false charge and I would have smoked the kitty.
Shit on the job sometimes is not 100% policy either, but I come home and see my kid every night. Exactly right......tried by 12 or carried by 6........live by it. Do what it takes to win.
Posts: 346 | Location: Las Cruces, New Mexico | Registered: 05 January 2002
When in a National Park why not carry a walking stick of say 6 feet long made of maple or hedge with a nice blade of 12 to 14 inches on the end. By the way, on the bottom of the blade where it joines the stick, weld a crosswise tang/rod at least 1 and 1/2 to 2 inch on each side. That way when the lion, boar, bear is stuck in the neck or chest, the animal won't slide on up the stick and "kiss" you. Just an idea to make one feel better when enjoying the National Parks that they hate.
Posts: 918 | Location: USA | Registered: 22 May 2002
Pretty interresting stuff since I was raised on a ranch bordering the Big Bend National Park and at one time I leased the Rosillas Mountain Ranch that borders the entrance of the park out of Marathon, Texas...I trapped a number of Lions on that ranch that came out of Mexico and the Park.. Lions are consider varmints in Texas and are hunted year around..
Lions by nature are an extremely timid creature where hunted and populations are controlled but it seems once they are not hunted and pursued and the populations get high, they loose that fear and on rare ocassions we become part of the food chain..Same with Bears...
Apparantly this is the first time or perhaps the second varified time that Lions have attacked humans in that area..
Possession of a firearm in that park would be a mistake I fear and you can be assured of Jail time spent and a lot of it, it is a felony not a misnomer or was back then, and due to the small size of the Mountain basin, you would surly be caught and proscuted I think...
Posts: 42176 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000
It use to be common for the outdoorsman to carry a good size belt knife. A bowie style with a 9 to 12 in blade. Is a very handy self defense tool. No regulations against carry in side NP's. I also carry a firearm all the time. But for someone adverse to breaking the law now and then. A good fighting knife can do lots of dammage. But as with side arms in the outdoors. We have been told by many that a big knife isn't needed. A wimpy little 4 or 5 incher gets it all done.
Posts: 19616 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001
While surfing around once I found someone selling 12 guage 2 1/2" pepper mace shells that fit in the orange olin flare pistols. If I find the link I'll post it but looked like a great idea to me, provided it works! Anyone else know more about them?
Posts: 7774 | Location: Between 2 rivers, Middle USA | Registered: 19 August 2000
I won't frequent Ontario Provincial Parks because of their "no firearms" policy. People feed the bears in summer, and the bears rapidly learn to play the game. Come the next spring, there they are rearing on hind legs near the roadside, paws outstretched, looking for their handout. When nothing is forthcoming they tend to get nasty, and up the ante. These creatures are hungry from the long hibernation period and won't take no for an answer. It's really a touch and go situation. These are black bears. It's much worse out west where we're talking big, brown bears. Every year we seem to have a few people mauled and killed in our parks. Most of our parks are lovely, some have week long canoe trips and primitive camping, great trout fishing in the interiors. But there's no denying they can be very dangerous. I simply don't run those types of risk anymore. Best wishes.
Hey, Cal, I know a guy who used to work for the Ministry in Algonquin P/P, in Ontario. They used to fly him in the interior(toting his 12 ga.) to look after the problem PORTAGE BEARS, he would shoot the one's that would lay in wait for Portager's.
Posts: 224 | Location: ontario,canada | Registered: 14 July 2002
We take bear training every other year. The G&F people tell us the sprays won't work on black bears but do on grizzlys. It would be interesting to know if it works on a cat.
What about concealed carry permit holders? Does anyone know if they are allowed if you carry a permit recognized by the state where the park is? I also agree with "tried by 12 or carried by 6", but you gotta know and be willing to accept the consequence for the desision you make.
Deke.
Posts: 691 | Location: Somewhere in Idaho | Registered: 31 December 2002
No firearms are allowed in US National Parks/Forests, unless there is an open hunting season at the time. This is one of the craziest laws I think I know of...
As far as STATE parks, I wouldn't think that wooden "No Firearms Allowed" sign hung by the gate is legal fodder, although you should check with your own state regulators, if you're interested in obeying the law.
There would be some pretty bad consequences for getting caught with an illegal firearm in a Federal jurisdiction. Besides jail time and most of your next 5 years' salary, you'd be disqualified from legally purchasing any firearm or getting/keeping a Concealed Permit for several years, if not life. That's in Texas, anyways.
By the way, this is my first post, as I just joined today. Been 'lurking' for a couple of weeks. Love reading all the stuff here!
Interesting story but not really a suprise. Four years ago my son and I were hunting Bighorns down by Gardiner,Mt. just north of Yellowstone. We were talking a nap around 1:00 pm when my thirteen year old son spotted an adult mtn. lion a mere 15 boot lengths away sneaking up on us and ready to attack. I was half asleep but my boy had the wits to grab his 30-06, chamber a round and train it on the cat all while bringing to my attention the cats presence. I sat up and saw the cat and shouted to him to shoot just as the cat lunged toward my son. He hit the cat dead center in the chest and killed it immediately. It's head was 10 boot lengths from where he sat still holding the rifle and ready to shoot again. I turned it in to Mt. Fish and Game by cell phone and they said to skin it and bring it out which we did. This was a real reality check as I have spent many days in the field and have only seen 2-3 other mountain lions. It was a female in great condition and weighed about 110 pounds. A very close call!
[ 07-01-2003, 03:22: Message edited by: Keith Atcheson ]
Posts: 373 | Location: Big Sky Country | Registered: 14 August 2002
If Ray is right and you were to get a felony for carrying a firearm in a Nat'l park (by the way, get the best lawyer you cant afford), a felony and you have just lost your right to own firearms/weapons, and lost the right to vote. I'm not saying I agree with it, just wanted to put that tidbit in. The cats here in CA are so thick because the general population voted out our cougar hunting season about 15/20 years ago, in their infinate wisdom with the brainwashing from the leftists here in the cities.
Posts: 492 | Location: Northern California | Registered: 27 December 2002
Trademark Texan you are right about firearms in Nationl parks but there are no regulations. Restricting them in national forest. They tryed a few years get to get one passed but failed.
Posts: 19616 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001
PDOGShooter is correct. Firearms are NOT restricted in National Forests or designated Wilderness. Nor does it have to be "hunting season" in National Forests, for one to carry a gun.
Although I hunt and have a hunting license each year, my wife doesn't. But, she certainly carries her .357 Magnum, when we're out in the National Forests, or Wilderness, whether or not hunting season is open.
We've been around Forest Rangers many times, and no one ever said anything about our being armed.
Code of Federal Regulations Title 36, Volume 1, Parts 1 to 199 [Revised as of July 1, 1998] [CITE: 36CFR2.4] [Page 19-20] TITLE 36--PARKS, FORESTS, AND PUBLIC PROPERTY CHAPTER I--NATIONAL PARK SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR PART 2--RESOURCE PROTECTION, PUBLIC USE AND RECREATION
I can't find any distinction in the US Code between National Parks and Forests, for the purpose of weapons laws. A link to the US Code if you'd like to search further:
I lived in Ft. Davis for seven years and hunted on the Rossilas ranch for cougar. I still take javelina hunters out to the ranch. Two years ago we killed a big tom while javelina hunting. This ranch is surrounded by the park on three sides. It has been about four years ago that they had trouble with a young juvinile lion in the basin campground of the park. They did not want to move the cat, but as a 1 to 2 year old lion it already showed know fear of humans. This lion was a young male. Does anyone know who tracked the cat down and was it a male? Billy Pat McKinney used to get these calls, but he now lives in Mexico.
