At what velocity would say a 180 grain or 158 grain bullet become too little to use for elk?I'm thinking of using an H&R handi rifle in .357 for my daughter to hunt with. She is very recoil sensitive,and we would keep the shots limited to 100yds or so...this would be either a late season cow hunt or depredation hunt. if anything would present itself for a longer range shot I'd give her the option of using my .270 loaded with 140 accubonds/or passing up the shot.
As to her ability to hit what she's aiming at,she can make empty shotgun shells,and golf balls dance at 50 yards with her 10/22.She's also very much into ground squirrel shooting in the spring. Good practice,a nice way to get used to your firearm
I've also toyed with the idea of loading some 130 grain bullets in the .270 fairly mild 25-2600fps for her to use in the .270,I'd carry my 8x57 then w/185 remmy corelokts,as backup
Hank

I would not recommend using Pistol Bullets.You could try Hornady 180 gr Spire point Pistol bullets meant for Contenders.I know you want to keep the recoil down for your daughter,but you are taking a big chance of just wounding the Elk at the velocities you will get.She should be able to handle a 7MM08 or 308.They are much better suited for this type of Hunting.I hope she does well!!!!! OB

I'd use the 180 grain bullet for elk in a .357 Mag. Make sure you check your hunting regulations for big game where you want to hunt. In Colorado the .357 Mag isn't legal for big game as it doesn't meet the ft-lbs necessary for a legal big game cartridge. I'm basing this off of the minimum 500 ft-lbs at 50 yards in a hand gun, and 1000 ft-lbs at 100 yards in a rifle.

If you are going to do a H&R rifle I'd try the .30-30 offering with 150 grain bullets like the Nosler Partition. The .30-30 with traditional flat point bullets meet the ft-lbs reqirements in both 150 and 170 grain flat point offerings. Hornady 160 grain Leverevolution ammo has a 1300 ft-lbs of energy out to 200 yards. Should allow to take an elk with a light recoil your daughter can handle.

Using pistol bullets in a .357 will not give the penetration required to take elk with any kind of reliability. There are many better suited, low recoiling cartridges. While I would never recommend these cartridges as the best for elk, the .257 roberts, 7x57 and .308 win, in order of increasing recoil, would certainly be far better than a .357 mag. With the use of premium bullets, you will get much better penetration, and therefore results.

I have shot deer with the 158 and 180 grain .357 mag bullets. I won't do it again. While successful, a young doe stopped one of these bullets without reaching the off hide at 80 yards, even though it missed all major bones. Excellent shot placement still resulted in a dead deer, but the bullet was very marginal, at best. A big buck would not have led to the same result, let alone an elk.

Use a rifle caliber at least intended for deer. There is low recoil practice ammo available for the 308 and 7x57, at least. You will probably be suprised how well she can handle these rounds.

Bill

after thinking about it and mulling it over all weekend,I just went and picked her up a savage .270 package gun,synthetic stock,removeable magazine,I handload,so I can drop the powder charge some with it to near 7mm-08 levels ,and keep her shots to approx. 100 yds on elk.

quote:

Originally posted by Hank McMauser:
after thinking about it and mulling it over all weekend,I just went and picked her up a savage .270 package gun,synthetic stock,removeable magazine,I handload,so I can drop the powder charge some with it to near 7mm-08 levels ,and keep her shots to approx. 100 yds on elk.

Winchester has a Combined Technology load with a 180g bullet that is designed for hunting.
It blew a 4" hole out the exiting side of a doe a few years back.
DRT.

Range was about 15 yards from a 6" barreled Dan Wesson 357Mag as the doe jumped a cat road.
My Dad took the shot as she jumped the road. Impressive shot BTW.
I would not hesitate to use this load under 100 yards from my 1894 Marlin or your Handi-Rifle for a cow or deer-sized game. Especially given the level of shot placement ability your daughter apparently has.
It flat works.

---Mike

I barely consider any 357 Magnum load a deer cartridge, let alone a 400 pound elk load at '100 yards or so'. Yes, yes, yes,(and yes!) I know it can be done and don't want to debate with those that have done it once or twice. (People always brag up their successes but don't mention much about the boo-boos).

I think it's great that you are involving your daughter in hunting! I started both my children young at hunting, but if they couldn't handle the appropriate rifle/cartridge combo, then they just had to wait and practice more until they measured up. Consider that perhaps your daughter needs more shoot experience before you go plugging elk with something inadequate. My wife was the biggest sissy about recoil I'd ever run into when we got hooked up but eventually she became a fair hand with a 12 gauge trap gun and went on to whack plains game in Africa with full loads in a 30-06.

We owe the critter enough respect to have a better-than-average chance at a clean kill.

P.S. FWIW, I have considerable experience with a .357 Magnum and it is one of my favorite all-around handgun cartridges. I have killed several dozen deer with it. But they were all within 15 feet (usually within six feet) and had already been busted up by a car and needed dispatching. Head shots were the only thing that cleanly took them out.

quote:

Originally posted by Hank McMauser:
after thinking about it and mulling it over all weekend,I just went and picked her up a savage .270 package gun,synthetic stock,removeable magazine,I handload,so I can drop the powder charge some with it to near 7mm-08 levels ,and keep her shots to approx. 100 yds on elk.

Good choice,She will be able to use that Rifle the rest of Her life.But she loves her Pop!!!!!