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The Alabama Conservation Advisory Board lifted the statewide ban on buckshot during stalk season. Previously buckshot was only legal in areas and seasons open to dog deer hunting. In returning the ammuntition/firearm decision to the hunter, the C.A.B. recognized the popularity of buckshot for stalk, man drives and stand hunting thick cover in many areas of the state. | ||
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Have you ever hunted deer with a shotgun and buckshot? | |||
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Years ago in Southern Mississippi. Shot a small buck at 40 yards or so with 00 buck. DRT | |||
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As a lifelong Alabama deer hunter 60 years old I've run dogs, used shotgun/buckshot combo a lot, when younger. I killed prolly 30 deer with buckshot, tried all sizes from #4 to 000. Best gun I owned was a post-72 Model 12 shooting fist sized 000 buck patterns at 40 yards. Mostly I used a Rem 870, 3" 12 with a 30" barrel and #1 buck. I quit using buckshot after losing TWO big, old bucks one weekend in Wilcox County. Both shots were on slow moving deer at 40 yards, both shot several times. Both deer were found during spring turkey season. Unless you are shooting close range running deer I see no advantage in shooting buckshot over a rifle. Even then I'll take my Rem 760 carbine in 30-06 with a BIG peep sight. my 2 cents and worth what you paid for it.... troy Birmingham, Al | |||
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I lived in Lee country 3 years and hunted in Barbour County with my boss's brother in law. He introduced me to deer hunting with dog's. To say it was a eye opening experience would be about right. You could not crawl through the swamps would be about right. I used a sawed off double barrel 10 ga. with 00 buck. Aimed for the head on running deer and it killed them DRT. A very effective gun and load inside 40 yards.  | |||
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I shot 00 buck my entire youth while hunting both dog and human drives but I gave it up many years (over 20) ago. I'm now 100% rifle hunter. Having said that, I have no problem with folks doing it but it just isn't my thing anymore. | |||
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From a different angle: Apparently a number of people on this forum have hunted deer with small buckshot ie. 00B and 000B. What about the latest in Big Buckshot - as in 3 x .60 buckshot loads aka Tri-Ball. | |||
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never tried it, not did I consider OO and OOO buck as small...... #4 buck is small, 41 pellets in a 3" 12 guage, will absolutely ventilate a deer at 40 yards.... troy Birmingham, Al | |||
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Sad....very sad. There will be a big increase in wounded and unrecovered deer. What a shame... Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
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And please tell us just exactly how many times you have hunted deer in Albama and your level of expertise as it pertains hunting deer being driven by dogs or humans in swampy areas where shots are limited to 50-60 yards or less due to the habitat? Hunting deer driven by dogs with shotguns and slugs/buckshot is not my thing at all, but it has been going on in the southeastwern United States since before we were the United States. Making unfounded/unsubstaniated comments on a subject where you may have little or no knowledge of how it is done, does not help anyone. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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We use it in New Jersey. Works, but the closer the better. Think of it as bow hunting with a gun. Get a 10ga if you can the more lead in the air the better. | |||
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I've killed a couple of bucks in VA using 00 Buck in a 3in 12 Ga. Never lost one and never had one go much more than 20 yards after hitting it. The secret is to pattern the gun so you know exactly how far you can shoot. I want at least 4 or 6 pellets in the chest area. For my pump, the distance I could reliably put that many pellets consistently in a 12 inch circle was 30 yards. And that became my maximum distance. Not really a handicap due to the very thick cover I was hunting. Hard to even see a deer farther than that. Once I knew my maximum effective range, the rest was just like hunting with any other weapon. Like most things, a man has to know his limitations and operate within them. | |||
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Excuse me. I have over 30yrs of experience hunting deer in Alabama and have spent most of my adult life chasing deer in the dark swamps in the central part of the state. I've killed somewhere over 150 deer in Alabama. I still hunt there almost every year. I hunted with dogs and buckshot for about 6yrs. I can't remember the number of times I've spent numerous hours tracking deer wounded by buckshot or the number of times I've pulled the skin down a rifle killed deer and had old buckshot roll into the gut bucket. I was pleased and very proud of the earlier decision to limit the use of buckshot - I'm certain it was a very difficult stance to take in my home state; and now I am sad at the decision to go back. Now, who made unfounded and unsubstantiated comments? Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
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Okay, you have stated your experience and knowledge level, and I appreciate your doing so. Now, for just a half a second here, how many times have you seen people make statements similar to the ones you made in your OP that did so WITHOUT any knowledge or experience to back up their assertions??? In your OP you did not give one hint that you had ANY experience hunting in Alabama now did you? Had you have stated your qualifers in your OP. I would not have posted what I did. Too often on here, people that have No Experience with a form or style of hunting make statements just exactly likew the ones you made in your OP and then when contested on their statements they admit that they have No experience in that area and were simply making a comment. I felt your post was one of those as you gave no indication that you had experience with that kind of hunting. Get mad if you choose, that is your perogative, but maybe next time you might want to list your qualifiers when making a comment and people will not take your post out of context. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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When using small buckshot (00B) I set a minimum pattern/maximum range standard as the distance that a 6 pellet strike (00B) is consistently made in the core 10" of the pattern - regardless of the total number of pellets in the load. With careful load/choke selection and time at the pattern board this level of performance can usually be achieved at 40 yards with today's buckshot ammo. With Large Buckshot (Dixie Tri-Ball) it is easy to get <5" patterns at 40 yards with similar choke tube and pattern testing. If a dog drive club holds pre-season pattern sessions/contests, the competitive drive to "have the best pattern" can be harnessed to make range and pattern awareness the "norm" for club members. | |||
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how bout you just ask his qualifications BEFORE blasting him and showing YOUR lack of knowledge... Birmingham, Al | |||
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If I were hunting with buckshot and was going to shoot moving deer in thick cover, I would prefer to have a 24 to 30 in. spread.If I had the choice it would be at least a 3in. 12 ga. and I would use #1 buck to fill the pattern evenly. A 5in. pattern is about whit I shoot with my rifle. Just a point of interest; back in the 70's I sold for a small wholesale grocer in SW Ar. we sold a lot of ammo to the country stores. I found it extremely interesting that one of the best selling items in deer season was 20 ga. #3 buck. it was probably because that was what they had but it seemed to prove effective. I will qualify that with the fact there were no trespass laws and you could use dogs to track down wounded deer anywhere. Arky | |||
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Arky, Perhaps you are not aware that buckshot patterns can be varied by load selection. There are indeed soft lead, non-buffered European buckshot loads that will fire very open patterns from a shotgun that fires tight patterns with the best loads - using the same choke. Indeed there is nothing to stop a hunter in extremely tight cover, from loading the chamber with "loose" shooting buckshot and follow with "tight" shooting buckshot. Yours is the typical reaction to seeing tight buckshot (small and large pellet) patterns - "that pattern is too small." Funny how that works, because the talk in deer camps for years has been about how to get tighter buckshot patterns. Also if you will note my minimum core pattern/ maximum distance standards for small buckshot simply tells me the sure kill range with a pattern centered on the vitals. The total pattern size with a tight core usually runs 15 to 18 inches. By the way, if I use #1B (.30" & 40 grains) the minimum 10" core pattern should IMO be at least 8 pellets. If the remaining 16 of the 24 pellets in a 3" 12 bore load are indeed evenly distributed over the remaining area of a 20" pattern, you have a very good deer killing pattern - but I would not push the range beyond that performance floor. | |||
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DTala, how about you look at the above. Antlers would not have been the FIRST person on the AR to make the statement he made, WITHOUT having any real time experience on the subject he was commenting on. Are you related to this person or do you just like being a cheer leader? What if instead of admitting that he had experience, he would have come back stating that he had absolutely No Experience what so ever hunting in Alabama or hunting deer with a shotgun and buckshot? What would you be sqwaking about in that case? Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Dixie Tri-Ball's are the only buckshot type load I shoot. I use it in very heavy cover in a Benelli Super Nova Tactical. Its the only buckshot that really needs sights since it patterns so tight. Three 60 cal hard cast balls at 1300 fps. Its leathal.  Cheers, John Give me COFFEE and nobody gets hurt | |||
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What I don't under stand is don't your hounds track wounded deer. Why would one spend hours looking for a wounded deer wouldn't you just let the hounds find it. I used blood trailers a little they worked out well for finding wounded deer. I know our bear hounds well follow a wounded bear with out trouble. | |||
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It is one of those cases where the dogs use their nose ponly when chasing the deer, once the deer is wounded and bleeding the dogs don't want to have anything to do with it! Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Small correction: The 12 gauge Tri-Ball 3" moves out at 1050fps and the 3.5" version at 1150fps from 20-21" barrels. My favorite combination with the 12ga. 3"Tri-Ball is 26" 870 Express with a Briley .695 extended full choke tube. For me this gun/choke combination seldom fires a pattern over 3.5" @ 40 yards and centers the pattern on "top of the bead" with only the vent rib for a sight system. The "ball centered on a flat" sight picture is fast and consistent for me. So if your pattern centers where you want it - the vent rib is all you need. As usual - YMMV. Interestingly, the Briley full tube is one widely marketed in the South as a 00B choke. | |||
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Well...compare Dixie Tri-Ball to an equal weight of 00B:  As you can see there is Buckshot and there is Big Buckshot! | |||
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Wow those muthas must ricochet like hell, not to mention carry a long ways. Do shotgun hunters using them shoot with rifle safety in mind? | |||
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Maximum danger range still less than slugs. | |||
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Like many who have never used it I was not a big believer in buck shot for deer hunting. It does work good up close in "Police" work, but my concerns were baised on shooting at deer hunting distances. However last deer season I killed a deer at 34 to 36 yards with a 20ga Federal 3" Premium No2 buck. I shot the deer head on, facing me. I aimed ahd most of the pellets hit center chest. The deer ran about 50 yards or so. I have had deer shot with a 308, in the heart, run 90 yards or so... When I butchered the deer, I was impressed with the penetration of the No2 Buck at that distance... DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Best over the counter buckshot? Well, all shotguns tend to be a law unto themselves but in general loads with buffer and a shotcup pattern better than those without. Hard shot or plated shot certainly helps. Here is a quick list of conventional small pellet (000B, 00B, 1B,) over the counter 12 gauge hunting buckshot loads put up with buffer and a full length shot cup. Federal Premium with Flite-Control Wad - 00B, 9 & 12 pellet. Federal Premium buckshot - all shot sizes (except 3.5" loads - these have a partial shot cup). Federal "regular" buckshot - all shot sizes Winchester Super-X #1 Buckshot 2.75 and 3 inch loads. This is a low cost 'sleeper' load and is among the first to sell out locally. All other WW hunting buckshot, including Supreme loads do not have a shot cup. Remington Express 9 pellet OO buckshot round (Remington should put this up as a 10 pellet load in this two pellet per layerload). Remington Low-Recoil 8 pellet 00 The 3.5" 18 pellet Remington round uses the same shot cup as the 9 pellet load and has 8 pellets exposed to bore scrub. All other buckshot hunting loads from Big Green lack a shot cup Hornady Buckshot - 8 pellet 00 There are a lot of buckshot rounds on the market that have fiber wads and buffer but nothing to protect the load from pellet flattening bore scrub. Some of the foreign made buckshot rounds, like Wolf brand loads, don't even have buffer. This is not to say your particular shotgun won't pattern well with any of non-shotcup or non-buffered loads, only patterning will tell you that. In my experience, if you want to get 40 yard hunting performance with conventional small buckshot, you need at minimum a 12 pellet load of OO buckshot. Federal Flite-Control loads seem to be an exception to this. For deer hunting I consider a 10 inch, 100% pattern at 25 yards a minimum performance standard for conventional small pellet buckshot. | |||
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It's not the buckshot that's bad, it's the buck shooter, although it does lose downrange energy rather quickly. There is almost never an exit wound, so tracking can be very difficult. I've been a member of three different dog clubs in southern Virginia and I've seen some absolutely abhorrent behavior. Guys shoot at any deer they see, no matter what the distance because one time, someone knew someone who dropped a big buck in his tracks at 100 yards with buckshot. I got tired of hearing "I was just trying to turn him." I saw fathers telling their kids to shoot at running deer at 70 or 80 yards as if there was no reason not to. It's ingrained in the culture. I live in deer dog/buckshot country and have the unfortunate opprtunity to stumble upon numerous deer carcasses in the weeks following deer season. These aren't dying of old age. I'm 100 percent confident they are delayed buckshot mortality. Buckshot can be effective--as long as a hunter knows his gun, knows the effective range and limits his shots. Unfortunately, far too many people refuse to hold their fire. I also believe many/most hunters, at least dog hunters who do nothing else related to hunting have no idea how far 40 yards is. If it was up to me, the stuff would be illegal for deer hunting. Too many idiots can't control themselves and too many deer get wasted. | |||
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The current trend among large established dog drive hunting clubs along the Gulf Coast is toward pre-season member buckshot pattern contests and taking mature deer during the season. These twin measures are having the positive effect of reducing wounding through effective range awareness and deer harvest standards. | |||
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I'm not sure what stalking season is. I am assuming it means the nondog season. PLease correct me if I am wrong. Ive been doing some hunting in SE VA for the last few years. This is dog and buckshot country. A new culture to me. What I knew about deer hunting and shooting in the Applachians doesn't necessarily apply here. I have not killed any deer with buckshot, yet. I have seen two kils. They have been close range affairs. Both deer dropped to the shot. The fellows I've hunted with were as serious at patterning their buckshot as I have always been about sighting in my rifles. The usual suggestion for the first cartridge to try is Federal No. 1 buck in the longest cartridge that your gun can handle. The clubs I've been around have been instituting rules about what you can and cannot shoot. Not everybody in those clubs was happy with this. I am sure there are some clubs that don't have these rules. The clubs I've been around are working toward mature deer and point restrictions, do food plots and habitat improvement projects. Even though they hunt with shotguns and dogs, they love deer and deer hunting and want to see them improve under their stewardship. Bfly Work hard and be nice, you never have enough time or friends. | |||
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Black Fly You are correct that "Stalk" season indicates any legal method other than dog drives. | |||
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thus the reason I like 10 ga. OO buck federal loading 19 pellets. #4 buck loading also federal 54 pellets. | |||
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[/QUOTE] thus the reason I like 10 ga. OO buck federal loading 19 pellets. #4 buck loading also federal 54 pellets.[/QUOTE] Yes the 18 pellet Federal 3.5" 10ga. 00B load and the 18 pellet pellet Federal 3.5" 12ga. 00B Premium loads are indeed effective Small Pellet Buckshot loads for deer hunting. | |||
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My Impression of Buckshot from growing up in NJ and hunting was not "more lead" but to worry about pattern and getting as much velocity as possible. to that end actually search for the high velocity 9 pellets of 00Buck rather than the slower 12pellet loads. A tighter pattern makes hits more likely makes multiple hits more likely and increases penetration of each individual hit I eventually loaded my own buckshot loads and started casting my own hard lead alloy balls... flattening of the balls on impact isn't ballistically relevant but the balls staying round through the firing process is very important to making them fly true... The ability to put all nine balls in a 16-18" circle (centered on point of aim) at 35-40yards will allow you to kill anything you shoot at. a 100% pattern at 20yards? Pretty much... yeah. If you are a good wingshot hitting a deer with the full pattern is easier than killing a clay target at the same range with a load of #8s Is it my prefered method? HELL NO! I switched to a rifled slug barrel as soon as they made it legal to do so. Hastings barrel on a Remington 870Express and a "scout mounted" Aimpoint 2000. I've never missed with it, I've loaned it to my brother and he got three with it in five days. He loaned it to his pastor who got three more (all legal). His pastor liked it so much he wanted to buy it, but settled for me guiding him through aquiring the same parts and getting it "dialed in" for him. AD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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New Jersey is the only state that lists buckshot sizes for deer hunting: #4B(.24") minimum and 000B(.36") maximum. Interestingly, the use of a single lead ball is ok in muzzle loading shotguns but not in modern shotguns, rifled or smoothbore. Also small game hunters with rifles are limited to .22 short rimfire ammunition. | |||
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