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I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that Harry Tennison had shipped both black and white rhinos to Texas in the 1970s or early 1980s for a breeding program. Anyone know if that indeed did happen, and what came of it? Bill Quimby | |||
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http://www.star-telegram.com/l.../article3832455.html ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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Interesting story about one that walked off of the preserve in Nepal only six weeks ago. Apparently they don't use fences. Rampaging Rhino Terrorizes Small Town in Nepal . | |||
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Yes he did and when I went to work at the fort Worth Zoo in 1982, Mr. Tennison was still quite involved in the rhino program. I also remember when the two Asian rhinos, Arun and Arati were brought to the zoo. The problem too many people can not grasp, is that a Zoo situation is not the best for long term propagation purposes with Rhinos. There is too much red tape/too much logistics involved. While I was at Fort Worth, Fossil Rim at Glen Rose got involved in the Rhino {Program as did a ranch or two in central Texas, possibly Bamberger. Zoos are NOT the answer. Reason being, a zoo can only set aside so much exhibit space per species, even with the BEST Zoological Associations, and as far as I know, the Bass Family has plenty of $$$$$$ to keep the Ft. Worth Zoo operating, but REALITY IS, the Public is simply NOT going to come into a zoo, just to see Rhinos, regardless of how endangered they are. Ranches CAN devote the space/time/effort. The point remains, either what needs to be done is done, or nothing is done and the species become extinct! How many on here want to be remembered by future generations as the ones that could have taken action but DIDN'T!!!!!!!!!!~ Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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While I would like to think this would work well, I can't help but think that the poaching problem would continue. Drug cartels are losing tons of money with the recent marijuana legalizations, and they aren't shy about shooting the crap out of people, so I'm sure that they'd have no qualms shooting some rhinos that they then sell for an obscene amount to the demand in Asia. | |||
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I really do not believe there would be any poaching. There is not much poaching that takes place on dairy/beef or equine breeding facilities. I am not being flippant about this, they would not/will not just bring those animals over here and turn them loose to fend for themselves in large pastures. They will be kept in smaller holding facilities on those ranches and monitored around the clock, and unless or until a person has tried to gain access on to one of those ranches, they really have no idea the type of security such places have in place. The folks offering to get involved with these type programs are not amateurs or novices, neither are the zoos that will be involved. Again it boils down to one very simple concept, humans either do or try whatever measures are available to keep rhinos from becoming extinct, OR, we set back and talk what ifs, when it is FACT that the African countries can not/will not do what is necessary to stop the poaching and the rest of the civilized world will not take the Chinese Government to task over the issue. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I get that they wouldn't be allowed to roam extensively. And I agree that doing nothing isn't an option, but I don't think you can expect to have similar poaching rates on dairy/beef or equine facilities as compared to a facility raising animals with horns selling as high as $30k per kilo. That seems to me like comparing apples to Buicks | |||
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Do you actually care about the fate of Rhinos, or are you simply uninformed about how these programs work? Can you answer those two questions before the conversation goes any farther? Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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testy testy Aim for the exit hole | |||
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Not being testy, time is running out for rhinos. Is letting them become extinct a better option than trying to save them? Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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CHC, Look, animosity is definitely not my intent. I make no claims to be intimately aware of the intricacies of endangered species recovery programs. All I am stating is that given Texas' proximity to Mexico and the extremely violent cartels that do operate on both sides of that border, placing animals that the Chinese and Vietnamese are paying more for by weight than any other precious metal/gem/what have you, that this is a valid concern. As it had not yet been brought up, I figured I would voice it. Would I love to see the rhino saved? of course. Will it be like the successful programs that have helped countless antelopes, sheep, and other species in the past? I don't know, but I don't think so. I would go as far as to say that even with 24/7 posted armed guards for each proposed rhino in Texas, until we can control the demand side of the equation, the price will continue to climb until someone is more than willing to overpower or bribe guards. Does that mean it shouldn't be tried? of course not, but whatever we try should be done with both eyes open. | |||
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The fact that you are equating US law enforcement to African is like equating the titanic to Huck Finns raft. CHC and I don't often agree----but he is waaaayyyyyy ahead of you on this. The TDPW is an Extremely professional group,not to mention the on-site Game patrol activities of almost all the privately owned places-- Simply put IMHO and that of most observers--Rhinos and other endangered species best hope out side of a a zoo is somewhere like Texas----certainly not in Africa. "The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane." Mark Twain TANSTAAFL www.savannagems.com A unique way to own a piece of Africa. DSC Life NRA Life | |||
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I'm not equating US and African law enforcement. Rather, I am contrasting the african poachers with the Mexican cartels. US law enforcement is without a doubt better than the protections that rhinos currently have, but I am concerned that the devils that the rhinos currently don't know could be significantly worse. | |||
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Drugs are more profitable and less risky than rhino poaching. Also, rhino poaching is considerably less popular than drug dealing, and thus more likely to prompt a useful response from the authorities. At least 40% of the American public is at least partially sympathetic to the drug trade and most of the remaining 60% is largely apathetic and resigned to the current mess. Rhino poaching would unite both liberals and conservatives in demanding action, especially if there were some particularly ugly photos distributed thought the major media outlets. With all the $$$ the cartels are making, I'd say they would be more likely to hunt down the offenders than to take part in the poaching, if only to maintain the status quo. analog_peninsula ----------------------- It takes character to withstand the rigors of indolence. | |||
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I hope we can get both black and white rhino into the USA and breeding on game ranches - Texas, New Mexico, etc. In the USA they clearly have a good chance, especially if the hunting coalition is allowed to participate and support their survival. Currently, so far as I know, there are more free-ranging scimitar-horned oryx in Texas than in Africa. They are not endangered. On my last trip to Texas, there were reports of free-ranging sable antelope...indeed, maybe we'll be hunting sable antelope in Texas like we hunt aoudad now. I wish New Zealand would accept more new wildlife species as well. Just think, if someone - before it was stopped - had imported dall, stone, or bighorn sheep there...WOW! New Zealand would be paradise for those sheep species. | |||
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I am not equating anything, the protection of the Rhinos, should the blind open their eyes, will be undertaken by the Individual Ranches, the U.S. government will not be involved in that aspect of the situation. That is how things already work on Texas Ranches, the government plays No Role in the security on these ranches. Bottom line, is either people are FOR doing anything necessary to insure the long time survival of rhinos on Earth, or they aren't, it is that simple. Africa, can not/will not do what is necessary to save the species. If you are happy with that, that is your prerogative. Something tells me that a lot of folks are not comfortable with that, and want to see everything humanly possible done to save these animals. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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It would ensure the survival of the rhino. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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This conversation did not take the route I thought it would. I figured it would be more about the lies and half truths in the article. I could be wrong, but I never saw a price of $5,000 for a Oryx hunt. They also left out the larger issue of a hunter not being able to get an export permit. I have walked in the foot prints of the elephant, listened to lion roar and met the buffalo on his turf. I shall never be the same. | |||
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I guess we could just leave them there to be slaughtered for the horns until they are extinct... | |||
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Yep! Me too! . | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Why does the American hunt industry want 1,000 rhino moved to Texas?
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