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| <Don Martin29> |
I am not sure of the motivation? If it's money then I would rather have three standard rifles over one custom one. If it's space then a .308 Win or 30/06 featherweight would also be my choice. | ||
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| <razorback> |
browning a-bolt with 300 wsm. it has a 23 inch barrel and weighs 6lbs. and 9oz. with a recessed crown and adjustable trigger. plus the 300 wsm kicks the 308's ass. all day long. | ||
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| <Mike Dettorre> |
Folks...I am looking for reasons why a 308 won't work. Not what other cartridges will work. ------------------ The sole purpose of a rifle is to please its owner | ||
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| <Gary Rihn> |
quote: Mike- OK, here's my list of "why not".... 1. Uuhhh, let me think about this for a minute. 2. Hold on. 3. Hey, I'm thinking here! 4. Uuuhhhh... 5. Let me get back to you on that, I can't come up with anything right now. | ||
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| <PCH> |
I think it's a good idea: *relatively low recoil and muzzle blast. *Cheap ammo and commonly available. I can't see no reason why it wouldn't work. | ||
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| one of us |
I think a .308 is fine for what you are wanting it to do. I wonder about maybe using a 1/11" twist barrel to better shoot the heavier bullets (180-200g). | |||
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| one of us |
Mike...the answer is "it depends" and I think size does count. If you are a casual elk hunter content on taking the occassional cow or rag-horn bull (and probably restrict your shots to perfect angles at 200 yards or less) then the .308 will do for you...the big bulls can be as tough as most of the big plainsgame animals you will find in Africa. I know a lot of hunters use .270's, .25/06's etc but in today's limited opportunities to elk (not to mention expensive) I would hate to have to think about turning a shot down because I was a little undergunned....my own feeling is bull elk deserve something on the order of a .338 and the .308 just doesn't have the velocity nor can it handle the bullet weight (200gr) for my comfort zone. | |||
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| Moderator |
What bullet do you plan on using, 165gr. or 180gr., conventional or monometal? I'm no great fan of the .308 on large game, however, if you use a 180gr. monometal with a streamlined shape, you're going to have to seat it deeply, thereby suffering for velocity (not always a bad thing). Long shots at fleeing elk should be avoided. I think a 165gr. FailSafe or a 180gr. Swift A-Frame would be adequate for elk & kudu (not my first choice, but adequate). George ------------------ | |||
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one of us |
I would concur with the post above - it depends. Lots of good reasons to settle on .308, also described earlier. The only possible bugaboo I see is bull elk. They can be tough mothers. And they often appear far from your muzzle. Aside from that one scenario, I'd say your rig is ideal. I recently traded up to a .300 Win Mag for just that reason. I was perfectly happy with my short, light .308 but as a very experienced long range shooter, I knew in my heart the day would arise where an elk would appear at a "hitable" distance but the .308 may not carry enough freight to tip him over. Not a decision I want to have to make. Surely someone will speak up and say they shot a blue whale at 1400 meters with a .308, but I'm just not confident with it under questionable conditions. Besides, I live up here with big, scary critters so as Capstick once said, "when in elephant country, carry an elephant rifle". Redial | |||
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one of us |
Mike Dettorre, Is a great round, I don't want to start an other polemic. What is good for 30/06 is good for .308. Exept bullets over 200 gr. For the rest the .308 coulb be your only rifle, I'm with you ------------------ | |||
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| <Gary Rihn> |
quote: One shot, right in the blowhole... | ||
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| one of us |
Mike, The 308 is as good as any.. I will also predict this is only a temporary phenomenom that occurs to all shooters nearing mid life and you will get over it and start replacing the rifles one at a time over the next few years, or in some cases it comes in sudden spurts... ------------------ | |||
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| One of Us |
quote: Ray speaks the truth and is correct in his prediction. Just when we think we are over the "gun fever," it can re-surface like malaria! I'm going thru a particularly painful siege of it just now myself. Wife has hid the checkbook and sent the grandkids home lest I barter one of them away for a new rifle. But I would add one thing not mentioned by other posters. Many have spoken eloquently of missing that bull elk. But what I miss today are some of the wonderful GUNS I've sold or traded off over the years! Not all guns are prizes and I won't keep a gun just because it goes "bang." But anyone that has a super gun they love and can perform with.........keep it. Or someday you'll be crying in your beer about the one that got away. (And I don't mean the elk.) ------------------ [This message has been edited by Pecos45 (edited 05-08-2002).] | |||
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| <Mike Dettorre> |
You see I have this terrible problem. I really want to get down to two rifles. My current on the way 9.3x62 and a new 308. But that means I would have to get rid of my: Ruger 77 in 7x57 an honest 1/2 inch gun Custom 8.59 Galaxy an honest sub 1/2 inch gun BLR in 358 Win(the perfect plains game gun) But if I did that I could get that great 5 pin SxS nd still be ahead and have an egg for the start of my next Safari. Ahhh...what to do...
------------------ The sole purpose of a rifle is to please its owner | ||
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| one of us |
Mike: I absolutely concur with your logic and think the .308 is a wonderful choice. Don't reconsider for one second. And email me and I'll help you get rid of all those uneeded rifles you just mentioned. | |||
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| <X-Ring> |
It was my gun of choice for all my hunting for so many years. I would be lying to tell you different. The 308 is a great gun and will serve you well. I can offer no argument! X-Ring ------------------ | ||
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| <Alberta John> |
well Mike..it would be the one of the last calibers i'd pick ..but if it floats your boat..go for it..i'm not being sarcastic either..i know if you gave me a .308 i could go out and kill elk and on down with it..so i'm sure you can also..funny..i would feel limited on the long shots with a .308.. i use a .338 and i'm sure there are all kinds of .308 loads with good bullets that will shoot the same trajectory and kill an elk too..not as fast or as reliable though..I just love my .338 | ||
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| one of us |
Mike. The 308 Win. has been one of the standbyes for red deer and moose hunting for years where I live. In my opinion it is as its best with bullets up to 165 gr. With 180, 200 and 220 gr bullets it gets a bit cramped and anemic. I use it my self for roe and red deer, and my old Brno 601 is one of the most accurate rifles I have ever owned. Arild | |||
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| one of us |
Mike...if you are going to team it with a 9.3x62...no problem....use the 9.3 for elk on up and the .308 for everything else. | |||
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| one of us |
The .308 would be great especially for a non-reloader. But it doesn't offer any real advantage for the handloader in any type of action except for about 3 oz weight reduction. For that weight reduction one sacrifices real flexibility on bullet weight selection and some velocity compared to the /06. Handloaders can opt to load larger rounds up or down for the game desired. Trying to stuff the heavier bullets many desire for elk into a .308 gets problematical. If you handload and just have to have a short action, consider a .358. Good heavy bullet without losing powder capacity,--heck you're going custom anyway. A good rule of thumb for a hunter is never have fewer guns than you do automobiles or televisions. | |||
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| <Mike Dettorre> |
1 TV, 1 car ------------------ The sole purpose of a rifle is to please its owner | ||
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| one of us |
Mike D, FWIW, my only thing with a .308 is that I would want a barrel with a 1 in 10" twist as opposed to the 1 in 12" that a lot of 308's seem to come with. It only makes a difference if you are shooting some of the heavier premium bullets that always seem to be longer than "standard" bullets. | |||
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| one of us |
I live in Indiana and if I had to pick just one rifle it would be the .308 Win. I have a rifle built on a 788 action with all the accuracy work done to it using a Douglas premium stainless barrel #4 tapper finished at 24 inches chambered with a Palma reamer that has a slighly longer throat than some Plama rearmers. With the 125 gr. Nosler B.T. at 3220 fps it is a legitamate 300 yard coyote gun, with the 150 gr Nosler B.T. at 2850 fps or the 165 grain Nosler B.T. at 2725 fps it is a deer killer, and with the 180 Partition it has had taken hogs in Alabama that exceeded 300 lbs with complete penetration on angling shots. Within a reasonable range, I have a hard time believeing it wouldn't work on elk. I would think if you are thinking about one rifle it would be hard to beat. I am lucky enough to live where I can shoot out to 1000 yards from my back yard and a 175 gr. MatchKing at 2675 with a stiff load Varget will cosistent ly get hits on 10" steel plates at that range. I had to have the local gunsmith shim the scope base to get the adjustment necessary but it works well and is great practice for varmints. If you choose to go to the 308 as your only rifle don't look back it will be fine Shoot Safe, Shoot Straight......RiverRat | |||
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| one of us |
Thats just about what I'm doing now. But I have two .308s. One is a short barreled Savage 99 with a 2x7 Leup and iron sights for short range situations. The other is a Steyr 26" heavy barrel with a 5.5x16.5 Nikon for longer range work. The big rifle is my new Steyr .376. I also have a Win Model 70 in 30-06, but that has not been hunting in a long time. With two .308s and a .376, I'm covered from mice to moose. Anybody want to buy an'06 Mdl 70? | |||
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one of us |
Mike, I have been doing what you propose since 1998 when I got my Steyr Scout in .308 Win. I have been using that rifle for all hunting except dangerous game since then. The SS even has a 19" barrel. What most people miss is the addition of super premium bullets to the .308; the resultant effect on game gives you the equivalent of an '06 or .300 Mag after the bullet arrives at the animal. I didn't sell my other rifles, they just went into deep storage. I am keeping them for the four grandsons "coming up". Since you live in Kalistan too, you can appreciate it. ------------------ | |||
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one of us |
You asked why the .308 won't work? Just about any rifle can work, some just work better than others! I won't take a .308 after elk unless there isn't a better choice. | |||
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One of Us |
Simplicity is a wonderful thing... all the rifles I had turned into a big maintainance and feeding project with which I grew tired. I'm still in the process of going the "ludite" route. Personally I love the 308 Win... it's a "hunter's cartridge." It's not flashy, doesn't break the 3,000 fps barrier with b.g. bullets, but simply works. The good Col. Cooper came up with a two rifle (carbine) battery of a 308 Win and 350 Rem Mag... I think that'd make a great pair for anything state-side, and possibly Africa too. With the 19" bbl'd 308 Win I had (I've had six 308's), I was able to achieve just at 2,700 fps with the 180 gr. Partition/Federal "High Energy" loading... not bad. That's actually "a better 30-06" than the 06' of yester-year. Though I've not taken elk with mine, I have carried it while hunting them (165 gr. Barnes X's @ 2,750). I certainly felt confident that load was up to any elk on the hill. My elk-guiding friend and partner (he's guided since the 60's) loved that little carbine and thought it was the cat's-meow for cruising the timber after bulls. Course he killed his first bull (a royal) at age sixteen with a 303 British at over 400 yards with open sights, so he's not one to believe that elk are bullet-proof! So Mike, I guess I'm saying you're on to a good idea! Brad | |||
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| one of us |
Brad, 2700 fps with 180 grain noslers/19" barreled 308? May just have to try some of them in mine... | |||
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| One of Us |
Dog, remember that's one of the new factory "High Energy" loads... something that can NOT be duplicated by handloads. The best I was ever able to achieve handloading 180's in that rifle's 19" bbl. was 2,610 fps with RL15. The Federal HE loading shot moa in my rifle (that's another thing I LOVE about the 308... they shoot!) so it started to seem useless to handload for it other than "practice" rounds. Try the Federal HE loads... they're terrific! Brad | |||
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| <JerrBear356> |
I don't know about the rest of you, but I like firepower, and a .308win is a little light for me on Elk. Now I am not as crazy as a guy I know who shoots a .338-.378wby improved using 300gr Matchkings with 120gr of powder at 3200ft/sec. However, I use a .338 Lapua because I know that If I need to take a shot at anywhere up to and including 1000 yards the animal is dead as a doornail. Now if you don't want that power at least go with a .300WSM or .300 Rem SAUM. Oh and by the way the 7mm-08rem ballistically out performs the .308 past 400 yards. FYI | ||
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| One of Us |
quote: How many elk have you taken with your 338 Lapua? How many elk have you taken at ranges over 500 yards with it? I'm curious. Sounds like you love ballisitc charts... 7-08 out-performing the 308 past 400 yards? Big deal. These are "hunter's rounds" that work out of proportion to what they look like on paper... FYI. | |||
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| one of us |
WOW! The Federal Hi Energy load gets the 180 Partition to 2700?! In a stubby barrel? Damn. I may have to rethink the whole project now.... But it just pains me to have to BUY .308 when I'm sitting on a garage-full of Lake City brass, bein such a cheap bastid after all. That's why I haven't even researched the hot factory loads. Hmm. Redial | |||
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| One of Us |
Heya Redial... get much snow did you get Tuseday? We got 8"... it'd be nice to get some warm weather but we surely need moisture! My rifle may have been exceptional... it's a Win 70 (stainless) with the "featherweight" contour... I had it shrtened to 19" and installed open sights to back-up a Leupold 1.5x5. Little sucker shot well, so of course I rebarreled it to 22-250! I REALLY miss it, and recently aquired a brand new .308 Win stainless featherweight barrel that I may use to re-barrel an identical Win 70 stainless that is currently a 243 Win. This time I'll go 20". I've had 308's with 18.5, 19, 20, 22 and 24" barrels. I think 20" is perfect for the round. The 308 Win and carbine-length barrels is a match made in heaven. The 308 Win barrel from USRAC is a 4-groove, 1-10"... I'm not sure if the 4-groove improves velocity or not. Regardless, I have other friends who have 308's who report similar velocities. Federal is doing something right I'd say! Here locally, we can get the Federal 180 Partition/High Energy stuff for $18.00 a box... seems worth-while to just buy a box for use on elk, not for paper or plinking! I generally use a 338 Win Mag for elk, but I do LOVE the 308 in a light, handy carbine for cruising the steep stuff! Best Regards, Brad Amundson | |||
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| one of us |
Well, if I absolutely had to go to one rifle only, I'd be giving the .308 a serious look. I'd probably build on on a Stery mauser action I have, with about a 19" barrel, using a Lawson Mountaineer lightweight stock. Weight would be right at 5.0 pounds loaded, scope and sling. Scope would be a Leupold 4X compact. Hold up a minute. I already have that one.  Seriously, why do people always say a .308 will not handle bullets of 200 and 220 gr. Seems to me, that those who feel a 220 gr. bullet in the 30-40 Krag at 2000 FPS, as being suitable for elk in timber object to the .308 which can reach 2300 FPS with the same bullet as not being suitable. And a 1 in 12 " twist won't stabilize the 220 gr. bullet. Used bull chow! My Winchester model 70 with 1in 12" twist will shoot 220 gr. Sierra round nose bullets to 2300 FPS and groups run 3/8 inch. Barrel is 22" in length. I think that instead of repeating some of the BS that gun writers spout, you carefully load up a few, chronograph them, and find out for yourselves. Now factory 30-06 with 220 gr. bullets clock only 2430 FPS average from three different 06's that I have. I doubt any critter will notice the missing 130 FPS. The late Karamojo bell, who shot over 1,100 elephants with popguns like the 6.5 M/S and 7x57 (I like both rounds BTW) thought thast the perfect elephant rifle for him would have been the .308 with a 220 gr. FMJ bullet at about 2250 to 2300 FPS. It just wasn't around when he did his hunting. Try it. You just might surprise yourself. Paul B. | |||
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| one of us |
Hi Brad I would concur about the shorty .308. Way kewl rig. Cursed at birth with lefthandedness (is that a word?), I'm married to the Rems, it seems. If our deer/elk/moose seasons didn't overlap, I'd carry the .308 more, but I want to be able to cover all bases, all possibilities. The whatever-I-see-today gun is a .300 Win Mag. Gawd, I'm tired of snow. Got four inches Tues morning, snowed all day as it melted, and got another 3-4 inches Tuesday night. Enough already! Cheers! Redial | |||
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| <Mike Dettorre> |
The idea is shaping up...Rem 700 Action, 23 inch bbl, fluted, Leupold 3x9, total weight loaded 7 3/4 lbs.... ------------------ The sole purpose of a rifle is to please its owner | ||
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| one of us |
Gerebear, WOW, 1000 yds on elk every time uh, what do you load that rifle with 120 grs of bullshit?? ------------------ | |||
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| <Mike Dettorre> |
I should have mentioned this is a hunting rifle. I have only benn hunting big game for 8 years now and have taken 39 animals between Alaska, Colorado, California, RSA, & Zimbabwe. The farthest shot I have ever taken was paced 325 yds from prone with a solid rest. A blesbok in RSA. I never intend to shoot that far again. Thanks for everybody's input. I think the .308 from 300 yds (my personal limit from prone with a rest) yds on in should be just fine. ------------------ The sole purpose of a rifle is to please its owner [This message has been edited by Mike Dettorre (edited 05-12-2002).] | ||
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| one of us |
If I could only have one rifle, it would be a .270, 7mm rem mag would be next, then a 30-06, the .308 wouldn't even get a 2nd thought. | |||
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