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What are your personal limits for off hand shooting?
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
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Me...I limit off hand shots to 100 yds. Why...cause I feel confident I can hit the vitals 9 out of 10 times.

What's your range limit?


Mike

Never under estimate the internet community to use any opportunity to reply to a post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence problem.



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10067 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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101 yards. Razzer

kidding aside, same as you.


Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns
 
Posts: 7906 | Registered: 05 July 2004Reply With Quote
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It depends. On everything.

Brent


When there is lead in the air, there is hope in my heart -- MWH ~1996
 
Posts: 2255 | Location: Where I've bought resident tags:MN, WI, IL, MI, KS, GA, AZ, IA | Registered: 30 January 2002Reply With Quote
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Brent,

What's your max then on deer sized game; i.e, best conditions?


Mike

Never under estimate the internet community to use any opportunity to reply to a post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence problem.



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10067 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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06 elk season in Co. i didnot take about a 70yd shot at a cow. i would have had to thread it through the trees for a neck shot. i was sitting on the side of a steep hill and had i brought my knees up for the shot, down the hill i would go. if i would have had amy kind of rest i would have kill the cow. so i guess last elk seasons of hand range was about 65yds.

imho the situation should dictate you comfort level for the shot


“I am an American; free born and free bred, where I acknowledge no man as my superior,
except for his own worth, or as my inferior, except for his own demerit.”
Theodore Roosevelt (1858 – 1919)
 
Posts: 240 | Location: texas | Registered: 05 March 2005Reply With Quote
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Pondering your question I have rarely taken an off-hand shot at a big-game critter. Last one I remember was a warthog at about 40 yards. And before that a wounded scrub bull in Australia that was ramping up for a charge at about 30 yards. Otherwise I much prefer using shooting sticks, rock, tree, fence post, rail on the blind...something! Or drop into a kneeling or prone position.

I've done a lot of off-hand shooting at the target range both informally and (long ago)competition smallbore/bigbore shooting. I'd say it takes me 5-7 seconds to get things lined up, breathe properly, and squeeze off an 'in-the-black' shot. It would only take perhaps three seconds to drop into a kneeling or prone position and greatly improve the quality of the shot.

Bottom line is I think there are few instances when an off-hand shot should be taken in the field. Of course one should prepare for it but try to avoid it.
 
Posts: 3276 | Location: Western Slope Colorado, USA | Registered: 17 August 2001Reply With Quote
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Assuming I didn't just walk up hill for 1/4 mile or more, I would say 100 yds. If my breathing is a bit heavy I start looking for a rest or take a knee for anything over 75 yds.

John
 
Posts: 1343 | Location: Northern California | Registered: 15 January 2006Reply With Quote
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I'm not sure I agree often with Brent, but I do this time. I've shot a whitetail, off-hand, at 180 yards, and he was moving away. I've shot a wolf, off-hand, at a hundred paces. And I've missed the neck of a moose at 30 steps.

I don't like taking off-hand shots, because I suck at it; but every once in a while magic happens, and there isn't a fibre in my body that doubts that I can't make the shot. But that doesn't happen often.

Frans
 
Posts: 1717 | Location: Alberta, Canada | Registered: 17 March 2003Reply With Quote
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At the range, my maximum effective offhand shooting distance (ie. the furthest I stay minute of pie plate) is somewhere around 100 yards on average (I am better with some rifles than others...so it does vary a little).

In the field it totally depends. Most times its well under 100 yds, occassionally further.

Cheers,
Canuck



 
Posts: 7121 | Location: The Rock (southern V.I.) | Registered: 27 February 2001Reply With Quote
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There are obviously tons of variables but generally 100 yards is a pretty decent rule for practiced shooters (BUT only if there is absolutely no other choice).

The last animal I shot in Africa was a waterbuck at about 70 yards. It was the end of the safari and it was the only mature bull we'd seen. It appeared in a clearing and locked onto us immediately. The sticks were 6' away and with that bull looking at us they might has well have been locked in my safe at home. The PH whispered "Take him!" through his lips. Off hand (and rather hastily) was the ONLY chance and it worked out fine.

I can think of a couple hurried finishing shots in tight cover that I've blatantly missed at around 20 yards.

But my favorite (absolute LUCK) off hand shot was finishing off a wounded pig running through a narrow window in the brush toward a neighboring property line at about 250 yards. At the (snap) shot the pig fell over dead. I happened to by guiding my brother-in-law and I didn't say a word... like I always shot like that. He's never seen me shoot since. Smiler

Kyler


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Posts: 2505 | Location: Central Coast of CA | Registered: 10 January 2002Reply With Quote
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mike,

hogs,deer and coyotes -running 75-100 yds.

hogs and deer stationary with breathing under control and shooting sling 150yds.

In my old age I typically use scoped rifles at 3x to 6x magnification when stalking. I think many people have their scopes dialed to high and thus have a problem shooting offhand. Here is a pix of a couple of hogs shot a couple of weeks ago. I stalked within 75 yds. Shot both offhand with the aid of a sling. One was walking toward me when I busted him and the other was on a dead run quartering away.
GWB

 
Posts: 23752 | Location: Pearland, Tx,, USA | Registered: 10 September 2001Reply With Quote
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Can't really say what my limit would be. I've only had to take a few off hand shots and they have been less than 50 yards every time. If I can get into a kneeling or prone position where I can rest my elbows on the ground or my knees then I'd say about 300 yards. I find that in most of my hunting situations that I have time to find a rest, if it is a backpack, shooting sticks, bi-pod, tree, or fence post.

All the animals that I shot off hand didn't even know that I was there, or I didn't know where they were. I almost stepped on my first deer, he was bedded down in a milo field of my dad's. He jumped up about 10 feet away from me and I pretty much had to wing shoot him. My first elk was about 25 yards away when I shot her. Which was a good thing because I was so out of breath from chasing the herd trying to cut them off. With my ragged breathing I couldn't have shot much further.
 
Posts: 2242 | Registered: 09 March 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
Brent,

What's your max then on deer sized game; i.e, best conditions?


Mike, under perfect conditions, with a flintlock, 100 yds is about it.

With the percussion underhammer, 150.

With the .38-72 and given that it is early in the season (and hence soon after the competition season has more or less ended) perhaps 200.

How far HAVE I shot off hand at game? Hard to remember, but 90 yds with the flinter for sure. Generally with longer ranges there is always time for something to rest on or time to wait for better situations.

I have once missed a small deer at 15 yrds offhand. I have never figured that out either.

Brent


When there is lead in the air, there is hope in my heart -- MWH ~1996
 
Posts: 2255 | Location: Where I've bought resident tags:MN, WI, IL, MI, KS, GA, AZ, IA | Registered: 30 January 2002Reply With Quote
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200.
i shot 5 for 5 every year standing from the 200 in the Corps. That was with a rattle trap 16 and iron sights.
Quality bolt gun and scope? shit, 200's easy.
 
Posts: 3986 | Location: in the tall grass "milling" around. | Registered: 09 December 2006Reply With Quote
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K Stephens,

Having never been in the Corps I do not know what the size of the target you are shooting at is. Is it a man size silohuette?

I figure to be confident of a clean kill which is my requirement and assuming I have a near broadside target i need to be able to hit a 12 inch plate 9 out of 10 ten times.


Mike

Never under estimate the internet community to use any opportunity to reply to a post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence problem.



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10067 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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target on left Delts/ aka Dmod/ aka Dog target is shot standing @ 200.

target on the right is shot out to 500 yards. @ 500 yards the target are shoulder to shoulder is 1/2 the width of the front sight.
 
Posts: 3986 | Location: in the tall grass "milling" around. | Registered: 09 December 2006Reply With Quote
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Well, Mike, I will probably get flamed for this but it just all depends!

I must say that I will get a rest any and every time I can. Whether that is a tree, a stump, a set of shooting sticks, whatever, I will try to get a rest.

BUT, if everything feels good and the shot looks right I do not have a limit per se.

I have shot deer at over 400 yards offhand. It was one of those shoot or forget it shots. The deer was watching my dad coming over a hill and was fixing to leave. I had no time for a rest and it just looked good. I drilled him perfectly through the lungs with a 7mm Rem Mag.

I also killed a wild hog at close to 500 yards offhand. I would not have taken the shot but the pig had been wounded by another hunter and I wanted to kill it. (This one was with a .338 Win Mag.)

You just have to shoot a lot and only take the shot when it feels good.


R Flowers
 
Posts: 1220 | Location: Hanford, CA, USA | Registered: 12 November 2000Reply With Quote
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I've "hail Married" a couple of hogs out past 200 yards off hand but realistically about 100 yards max if I am shooting at real life game animal and not just a over stuffed rat.



 
Posts: 5210 | Registered: 23 July 2002Reply With Quote
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I wouldn't have a problem taking a 150-200 yard shot if not winded, had plenty of time, etc. The 100 yard shot is a lot better, but I have slammed a lot of running whitetails past 150 on the run. I have missed as well on occasion. I shot a 150'ish buck a couple years ago at 186 with a 9.3x62, but he had been shot at by a couple of hunters on the adjoining property and I honestly thought he acted like he was hit. He rolled at the shot and had one hole from a 286 Nosler through both shoulders.


A shot not taken is always a miss
 
Posts: 2788 | Location: gallatin, mo usa | Registered: 10 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Guess it all depends on what we are calling offhand.
To me offhand is just pull up your rifle and shoot while standing with no external rest or leaning on anything, then there is offhand with a sling take a wrap through the sling and shoot. I'm not sure exactly what everyones idea is of "offhand".
80% of the animals I shoot I have shot from a very steady sitting position with my arm through the sling and my knees and elbows and sling all working together.
My best offhand with a sling was 180 yards in 2004 on my best Bull Elk to date, he gave me no other shot and if I moved over to get a rest on an Aspen the shooting window closed up, same story when I tried to neal or sit and I couldn't get closer as I had Cows all around me and any minute I would have been busted so I stood there about a full minute and when he was still and the tops of his shoulders showed in my shooting window I was able to connect with a well timed offhand shot. I practice offhand with sling and just straight offhand at the 100 yard range and must admit I'm keeping more than 9 out of 10 in an 8" circle.
Whole nuther story when you've just ran a half mile trying to get to a cut off on a rambling herd of Elk.
 
Posts: 5603 | Location: Eastern plains of Colorado | Registered: 31 October 2005Reply With Quote
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snap shooting is different from off hand. i consider snap shooting almost instict shooting and the only times i have done it is when i am tracking an already wounded animal.
 
Posts: 3986 | Location: in the tall grass "milling" around. | Registered: 09 December 2006Reply With Quote
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variables aside, i'd have to string along with the 100 yards under most conditions.

if i were to have any support at all (backpack, fencepost, tree branch etc.) i would have no trouble going up to an estimated 200 yards (accounting for error in range estimation, it could be more or less), and as my confidence in my rifle and my abilities increase, so do the ranges that i feel comfortable trying.
 
Posts: 51246 | Location: Chinook, Montana | Registered: 01 January 2004Reply With Quote
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