Okay, I'm sure this isn't the first post on an elk caliber, but I am in need of some feedback from those experienced in elk hunting.

We are going on our first elk hunt in October out in Idaho. My outfitter told me I need to be able to shoot out to 500 yards. I think i will be happy if I can put a good ethical shot in the elk at 400 yards. I currently own a 7 MM Rem Mag that loves the Barnes 165 TSX's and a 416 Rigby that loves the Barnes 350 TSX's. Both guns are great and have there place, but I am not sure I don't need (okay maybe want is a better choice of words) another caliber. My goal to be flatter shooting out to 400 yards and still pack a punch in the elk, not neccessarily my shoulder. I think I want something that I can buy off the shelf premium ammo as I have no desire to reload and would prefer not to (although I will if need be) pay $100+ a box for ammo. The 30 378 and 325 WSM have been highly recommended to me. Both look like they are flatter shooting than my guns. Maybe one of the guns I have is all I need. I would think I could get my 416 Rigby to shoot flatter if I could find a bullet that weighed less than 300 grains, but so far no luck. While I like the idea of another rifle (toy)the reality is if one of the ones I have will be adequate, I sure could put the money to use in other areas.

As always experienced feedback on this post is welcomed.

Your 7mmremmag with the 160gr tsx will be fine.

416 Rigby, 30-378? Good grief man, take your 7 Mag!

BHW, unless you just want to spend a butt load of $$$$ take the 7mm and enjoy the trip.
Spend some time in a hunting type shooting outing if you can and strech out to 400 yards and know what your 7mm will do. Then come back with lots of pictures of that elk.
I would guess your guide will have you glassing from one ridge and shots will be to the other side of the opposing ridge in order for these 4-500 yard shots.
What area will you be hunting in?

Go practice shooting with the 7mag and the TSX's. JMO, Dutch

What you have is fine but a 340 Weatherby is better!

A lot of first-timers seem to think that elk are as tough as Cape buffalo, the only difference being that they're shot at no less than 500 yds., that they all wear Kevlar vests these days, and because of that, a bullet from anything less than a 375 RUM sorta bounces off or otherwise fails......

By all means, take your 7mm Rem. Mag. It's more than up to the task, and in fact the longest shot I've ever witnessed that ironed-out a bull elk dead on the spot was made with a 7mm Rem. Mag. firing 160 gr. Nosler Partitions a something over 400 yds., plus the shooter was an excellent rifleman of long elk hunting experience who cooly put together and got into a Gibralter-solid field rest for the shot.

My number-one rule for shooting elk is to NEVER take a long shot if you can possibly stalk closer, and/or get to a better rest. Your guide's advice might be OK for some hunters, but some blanket statement that you're to be ready to shoot at 500 yds. is akin to telling every hunter to come to camp wear a pair of size 12 hunting boots. Trust me, 500 yd. shots ain't for every pilgirm in the woods with an elk tag in his pocket, and your guide must surely know that.

Save the 416 for Africa. That's its rightful place..........

AD

I bet your 7 mag is just begging to go on your elk hunt. If your current load is accurate, then practice with it and take it on your hunt. Also, I am pretty sure the 7 mag is a flatter shooter than the 325 short mag.

BHW,

Your 7mm will work fine.

What outfitter are you hunting with and in what region. If you have the outfitters name I would be interested in knowing.

Thanks,

quote:

Originally posted by stubblejumper:
Your 7mmremmag with the 160gr tsx will be fine.

Ditto.

Wow, your guide told you 500 yards? That is an awful long shot. One I wouldn't take unless I had a rock-solid rest, and I'd still probably not take it.

Your shot will probably be less than 100 yards, maybe a bit more. The possibility exists for a longer shot, but most of the time you can close the distance.

Your 7mm mag is thought by many of my friends to be the quintessential Elk rifle. I like a bit more bullet weight and frontal area, but that's just my opinion. I killed a Spike with a 270 three years ago, and he didn't know whether it was a 270 or a 300 mag...

My Uncle shot a 5 pt. four years ago at 500 yards, and was darn lucky in my opinion.

Your 7mm mag loaded with 160 grain Noslers is plenty of gun.

I'm with most of the other posters: your 7mm Rem. Mag. with premium bullets, plus your dedication to practice with that round, will be all you need out here.

500 yards?? Maybe, but odds are you'll get a shot at closer range than that.

BTW, coming out here for elk, something that is just as important as your rifle, is being in GOOD CONDITION. If you are overweight, lose weight! Excercise so you can climb these rough mountains. Elk hunting in MOST of Idaho ain't easy!

In what part of Idaho are you going to hunt?? Zone??

Good luck. L.W.

I have a 7mag. I wouldn't hesitate to use it on elk.

My friend at the rifle range took a huge Montana bull at 468 yards with his and it was loaded with 175 Hornady bullets. He showed EVERYBODY the footage at the range from his video camera.

The 7mag is a great elk rifle. The TSX is an AWSOME bullet. But this business about being able to shoot 500 yards is a bit ambitious of the outfitter. For me, I had to shoot LOTS of bullets at 400-500-600 yards for a lot of years before I was "able" let alone comfortable. Bullets sure can have awkward flight paths out beyond 350 yards or so.

The rifle and bullet are certainly capable of dumping a big elk at 500 yards but you better find the perfect factory ammo and when you do, buy the rest in the lot if you can.

Good luck, hunt hard, and hopefully you'll score on a bull!

That 7 Mag will work, but if you're looking for a new gun (who needs an excuse for that), I highly recommend a .338 Mag with a 210 Partition.

Be careful about some guide who wants you to shoot at 500 yds. Some guides don't promise an elk, but (instead) they promise "shots" at elk. Some guides consider such 400 or 500 yds shots as meeting their promise - bull shit! A good guide should be able to get you within 300 yds - a reasonable "shot" at an elk. Insist that they get you within 300 yds, where you have a decent chance of harvesting your game!

YOUR 7 Mag will work fine, like has pretty much been said above....

However,.... If you need all of us guys to back you up in regards to the wife.. that you need a new Elk Caliber for the trip... Just let us know what you want.. and we will all swear to it for ya!

cheers
seafire

Thanks for all the post. The 7MM it will be. I'll practice some longer distance shooting, but I am not wild about those 500 yard shots across valleys, ravines and what not.

The outfitter is Russell Pond and I have hunted with them twice. Both times at their east coast camp in Maine and have had excellent experiences.

Now that I don't need that other elk caliber, I will have to figure out how to sell the idea to my better 1/2 that the Wild West Alaska Co-Pilot (45/70 cal)is such a necessity and I am in desparate need of one.

Seafire/B17G; I may need to enlist your help on this one.

Another vote for the 7Mag. But on your outfitter's comment of "expect to shoot out to 500 yards," I'd find another outfitter. jorge

For once I agree with jorge - entirely.

Brent

I would use the 7 mag w/175 Fed Premium shells. Siht in about 3.5 high at 100 yds and practice at 200, 300 & 400 to see where your gun shoots these bullets. Make a chart to tape to the stock. If the elk are at 400 yds with no chance of getting closer and you have a good rest ...

Good luck.

You might consider the statement made and the ramification thereof. Sounds like a built in excuse by the outfitter or just someone who doesn't know much about what he is supposed to be expert on. 500 yards is too far 99.9% of the time for ANYBODY.
By the way: the suggestion that your 7 mag and a 160 NP is not enough gun is just plain silly.

quote:

Originally posted by Brent:
For once I agree with jorge - entirely.

Brent

Me too! I have and hunt with a 7mm RM but would feel better with my .338 WM if the shots were closer. Practice with the 7mm and let your results indicate what your maz effective range is. I'm finally consistant at 400 yards with the 7mm but not so with the .338. Being able to judge distance accurately and place the bullet appropriately is what it comes down to. Nate

Don't be too hard on your guide -- he probably thinks that his Johnson is approximately twelve inches long, too. Many people, if not most people, including your guide, simply don't really have a strong concept of yardage. While I wouldn't say that I would NEVER shoot at an elk at 500 yards, your guide's "500 yards" is more likely about 300 yards. Your 7mm is as good an elk rifle as the next guy's, so take it and be confident. Zero for 300 and know how to hold for 400 and you'll do fine.

From the for what it is worth the 416 Rigby will do a fairly good job one Mr elk.

We used one for a while to dust more than a few chucks and also some deer/elk and lopes. And of course the occaisional yote.

We ran some of the lighter Barnes (300's) at a bit over 3000 and it worked just fine.

Your 7 will do fine as well, my 7 Mashburn Super is my fav open country round for elk.

It it were me I'd try the 140, 150 and the 160 TX and see which one worked well. Then I'd find a cheaper bullet that was very close to the Barnes in size and shape and try to get between 500 and 1000 rounds thru it this year. I would do 99% of my work away from the bench. I would ask the guide about bipods and his thoughts. I am guessing you may have some open and cross canyon country to hunt. So, a bipod is gonna be worth its weight in gold here.

Then I would work hard to get your shooting to be moa while laying on your belly and off a bipod to 500.

Mark D

I am just curious Jbabcock,Jorge,AI and fury01 what part of Idaho is this guy hunting and how many times have you been there?

And what type of LRF is this guide that he is hooked up with using?

thx

Mark D

BHW, I ask again, in what Id. F&G Hunting Zone is Mr. Bond going to hunt??

Has he outfitted for elk hunters here before?? Is he a member of Idaho Outfitters & Guides Association??? http://www.ioga.org

Is he licensed by Idaho F&G?? http://fishandgame.Idaho.gov

Hunting deer in Maine is one thing: hunting elk out here in Idaho is a totally different ball game.

I say again, you and your buds be in good condition when you arrive. You'll have a lot more fun, and much greater chance for success while seeking the Wily Wapiti.

L.W.

Russell Pond Outfitters, been doing business in Idaho for 8-10 years.

Don't know the GMU, just we are hunting in the bitterroot and clearwater areas.

They have a website you can visit and get more information about them if interested.

http://www.russellpond.com/index.html

BHW, take Mark's advice to heart... 500 yard shots are no big deal if you have a good rest, some time and favorable wind condition's. Get a ranging reticle of some sort (I'd send it to Premier Reticles and have 400, 500 and 600 yard dots installed) get a bipod and a rangefinder... you'll be amazed what you can do.

Good hunting...

BHW- on a side gotta love that Royal Wolf...will you have any time to toss one while you're in Spudsville?

Mark D

Take the 7mm mag with the TSX bullet. A lot of people miss an important fact about the advantage of the TSX. Since it maintains its weight it will actually penetrate better than a heavier bullet that starts to separate after entry. When that extra weight starts falling off so does the energy and the penetration.

Mark; no fishing planned while in Idaho all my time will be spent hunting. However, am spending a week in Jackson Hole in August to wet that fly.

Thanks, BHW. From your description and that on the Russell Pond site, I imagine you'll be hunting in the Lolo Zone, Units 10 & 12. Good elk country, but, as they state on the R.P. site, rugged.

I've hunted elk north of the Clearwater and that is ordinarily pretty close country... but, there are a few areas where you might get that 500 yard shot.

Good luck. Hope you and your buds kill nice ones.

L.W.

Before blasting the guide did anyone think "If I tell him 500yds and he goes and pratices at this range, then that 300 yarder will be easy"
Guide could be crazy like a fox.

MT, exactly.

NEWSFLASH!:
BHW, you may want to reconsider, with all of the wolves in that area, it has come to my attention through inside channels at IDFG that elk hunting for 2006 IS GOING TO BE CANCELLED STATEWIDE. They are in talks with Montana to close for 3 years due to the heavy losses imposed by wolf depradation.

It is also highly likely that the area will be closed to the public as it is far too dangerous for todays limpwristed wannabe toughguys to enter the woods without appropriate nightvision, a pair of DE .50AE's and a set of small explosive devices. Wolf attacks are up, elk numbers are down and the area is far too dangerous.

Hopefully you will be able to get a refund and hunt elk someplace much safer.

I hear Wyoming wilderness is tamer than the Pt. Defiance zoo in midwinter......might be an option?



Hee...hee....heeeeee.....

IV

I bought a 7 mag 25+ years ago because it was the hottest Elk gun around according to the "experts". When I finally got to use it it worked just as well as advertised.

I passed up the first opportunity I had at a big bull because it was over 500 yards with a stiff crosswind, didn't fill my tag that year but had a great time.

My first bull was less than 75 yards and this year's was at 277 yards. I used 160 grain Accubonds near max load but any premium 150-170 grain or so would be tough to beat as a long range elk killer.

Get in good shape and carry a good range finder so you don't take that 500 yard shot at a bull that is at 300 or vice versa. Of course if you want a new 300, 338, 325, 340 I wouldn't try to talk you out of it.

BHW:

Now that I don't need that other elk caliber, I will have to figure out how to sell the idea to my better 1/2 that the Wild West Alaska Co-Pilot (45/70 cal)is such a necessity and I am in desparate need of one.

Seafire/B17G; I may need to enlist your help on this one.[/QUOTE]

Ok, I'll step up to the plate on this one. Just tell "she who must be obeyed" that you need the .45-70 as a back up rifle for your trip. Tell her also that you need the rifle for chasing "them thar elks" should you get into the heavy stuff. Your 7mm won't work reliably up close & persaonal since the bullets won't penetrate enough & will blow up on impact due to their high velocity. Simple is as simple does.
Bear in Fairbanks

Bear,
That should work just fine for an excuse. My better 1/2 believes that I really must need a shotgun for Saturdays and another one for Sundays (and then some more for every other day of the week and a few special ones for Holidays). At least, she pretends to buy it...

Brent

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
....But on your outfitter's comment of "expect to shoot out to 500 yards," I'd find another outfitter. jorge

I am with you on this one.

I shot an elk three time in the vitals once and it still kept on moving with my 300 win mag

I ran out of bullets "NO time to reload"and the took my buddies 7mm, shot once, and he fell dead like a ton of bricks

Most lifelong Hunters i know have no knowledge of anything else than a 30-06 a 270 or the 7mm mag.