My buddy asked about who makes a good safe these days. Any suggestions?

Perry

I've had a Ft. Knox and I now have a Liberty. I liked both. Needed a bigger one than my old Ft. Knox and opted for a Liberty as they support our local SCI Chapter.

Saw this link on another forum. Seems to have some interesting information.

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html

Just make sure he buys one about 3x bigger than what he thinks he'll need. He'll fill it up in any case, but it will take a bit longer.

-Steve

I have a Heritage. I checked out a bunch of safes and concluded that Heritage fit my needs and had better features than most. It may cost you a little more but it is worth it.

heritage safe company

Get a push button combination, not the old fashioned dial. Mine is dial and I have regreted it!

What bugs me about so many of the safes on the marketis that there are about 3 or 4 manufacturers of gunsafes for 12-15 brands. Of the above mentioned safes does anyone know if any of them are actual manufacturers. I like quality. Don't feel like paying twice for it.

From Heritage:

quote:

We are also proud to be the manufacturers of 100% American made safes, so you can take pride in knowing you are helping America’s economy when you purchase from Heritage Safe.

A few years back a local store opened with high hopes, only to find that no matter how good the marketing, MA was not exactly the potential hotbed of firearms/sportsman's gear sales. When they decided to scale back (or close, I forget which), they had a huge inventory sale. I got an AmSec (American Security) safe, a 14 gun, I think, for a song. It's not super fancy, and I'm at capacity now (good words above about buying something bigger than you think you'll ever need!), but it has, and continues to serve me well.

KG

Just keep in mind that most gun safes are not really safes, they are just deterrents. Real safes are too heavy and too expensive for most gun owners. The lighter type safes you see in Walmarts, etc can be peeled with simple and common tools, like an axe, or simply loaded up and hauled off for later. Any lighter weight safe MUST be anchored to something for this reason. In most cases, fire proofing is not fire proofing, it is just slower burning. While I haven't had any personal experience with them, their advertisements would indicate that putting your guns into the silicone treated gun sacs before putting them in a safe would help. If nothing else they will help prevent safe "rash" which is pretty common, you're always reaching for a gun behind 6 others..... Finally, you will need some type of dehumidifier unless you live in a desert. Most people use a "golden rod" or similar, but a light bulb on a cord will work.

As has been mentioned, get the biggest one you can afford and move, the space will get filled with something and it won't take nearly as long as the purchaser thinks.

Finally, if at all possible, don't put the safe where every Tom and hairy Dick can see it. A typical gun safe is mainly protection agains break, enter, and run type burglars, which luckily is by far the biggest majority of them, not a real pro. Your best protection is keeping your mouth shut about having anything worth stealing and keeping what you protect out of sight and out of mind. A follow up is this unhappy thought.....what good is a safe if the guys are standing there with a gun(s) to your, your wife's or your child's head? Loose lips sink more than ships.

Gato is correct: Safes buy you time.

In the case of burglers, they generally buy you enough time to foil all be the most experienced and professional miscreants. A real professional can get into anything, given an appropriate amount of time. If you can build the safe into the framing of your house (or better yet, encase it in concrete) so that the intruder must attack it through the door, that is the most secure situation. "Real" gunsafes don't vary too much in their resistance to pros, so buy whatever seems to fit your needs the best.

The other form of time is protection against heat. Various safes have fire ratings ranging from about 1200 degrees for thirty minutes up to around 1500 degrees for an hour. Just buy the one rated for your worst expected fire . In reality, any safe with fire protection will keep guns protected from a modest fire, and no gun safe will protect them from an inferno.

You can spend a lot of money for only marginal improvement in security. Virtually any of the major brands will offer you 95% of the effectiveness that a consumer can obtain.

I do have one piece of advice. Two safes take twice as long to break into as one safe. Three safes take three times as long. Rather than spending a huge amount of money on a single large safe (which is going to be too small sooner or later anyway), I would suggest purchasing two safes of more modest size and putting them in separate locations within your home/shop/office or whatever. Most thieves will stop looking for a second safe once they find the first one. It's an oversimplification, but dividing your guns between two safes gives 50% of your collection some immuninty from theft.

I have a Heritage.

After much research, I went with a unit made by Homeland Safes in California. One of the biggest selling points for me was the ceramic insulation (rather than gypsum) that insulates to 2300 degrees for one hour. The folks there are great to deal with and will customize your safe to your needs with a variety of optional features (dehumidifier, handgun hangers, lighting, etc.). They're worth a look.

I'm thinking about one of these. Iwas impressed with them and their prices while at the FNAWS show.

http://www.rhinosafe.com/bighornsafes.htm

I have several and my favorite is my Champion Triumph 60.

Champion Safe

I'm on my second Heritage. I guess that tells you what i like!

I have a Fort Knox, but wouldnt if I would have known about these before I bought one

http://www.sturdysafe.com/
http://www.brownsafe.com/categories/8266D25C-C46C-0B4F-...ures_and_options.htm


Couple of things I think that are overlooked when buying...

Body thickness or LACK THEREOF in most safes

Real Door(actual steel) Thickness vs. "composite door" thickness

FROM STURDY SAFE:

Steel Thickness Chart
12 Gauge=
Thickness Of 2 Dimes
10 Gauge=
Thickness Of 1 Nickel And 2 Dimes
8 Gauge=
Thickness Of 2 Dimes And 1 Quarter
7 Gauge (3/16)=
Thickness Of 2 Quarters And 1 Dime
3 Gauge (1/4)=
Thickness Of 3 Quarters And 1 Penny
5/16 Thick=
Thickness Of 4 Quarters And 1 Dime

Gimmicks Our Competitors Want You To Believe

BE LEARY OF SAFE COMPANYS WHO BRAG ABOUT:

Their NoN-Exposed Hinges-

Make sure hinges on the safes are heavy duty and allow for door removal, which is known in the industry as a "serviceable door". Don't be tricked into believing that exposed hinges are weaker or insecure. In fact, in most cases, exposed hinges are stronger and allow for easier removal and hanging of the door. Most hidden hinges are susceptible to damage simply by slamming the door open! Safes such as this should be avoided.

Their Double Quarter (1/4) Inch Doors-

Only one 1/4" sheet is really protecting the linkage. To get to the linkage parts, one would only need to go through one sheet of steel before getting to the linkage, and not two sheets of 1/4, because the linkage is sandwiched in between the 1/4" sheets.

Their Spoke Handle Located In The Middle Of The Door-

This gimmick is added to make the safe more attractive (customers prefer the handle in the center of the door), however, it's the most impractical place to put the handle. It doesn't allow shaft support, so they have a higher chance of getting loose an wobble in the safe. They are more susceptible of being broken into by simply beating the handle up and down until it loosens the linkage inside. To make the centered spoke handle work, the linkage parts will need to reach it. This is not beneficial because it's cluttering the safe door with a lot of moving parts. More moving parts = a higher chance more things will break.

Their Palusol Door Seals-

When heated Palusol expands, but it shouldn't need to be heated up before there is a tight fit. The Palusol door seal is a specific size, about the thickness of 2 nickels. The door of the safe would need to fit exactly the same every time in order for there to be no air gaps. It doesn't matter who manufactures the safe, one gasket cannot fit all safes perfectly. A custom fit gasket is important because it fits the door perfectly every time, without needing to be heated up first.

Their Long Dead Bolts-

The longer the dead bolt, does not make it more secure. It's not as important as how the dead bolt is supported in the door. A good locking assembly could keep the door locked at a quarter of an inch engagement.

Their Many Moving Dead Bolts-

For example, when your looking at money vaults that are nearly the size of our 2723 safe, you will notice they have one of the highest security ratings listed at TL30, and they only have 3 locking lugs, none of which are located on the bottom or top of the door. You might wonder how is it that a safe with a lug count of 3 can be rated one of the highest in security and the answer is this: a smart locking assembly and lots of thick steel. We feel gun safes should be treated this same way. It's not the number of deadbolts that make it more secure, it's the smart locking assembly and the thick steel.

Their Sheetrock Fire Liners-

Some use sheet rock as their fire proofing (which they refer to by many different names to throw the customer off), made primarily for the construction of fire walls in buildings. These materials ARE NOT designed for use insulating, they are designed to block fires. True insulators, you will find, will not be any type of sheetrock/fireboard/cement.

Their Welds-

Some safes on the market have inadequate welding along the lock bolt assembly, even though they look like they did the trick, they wont be as strong as they claim. Your dead bolts are only as strong as the welds that hold them to the door.

Their Hard Plates And ReLock's-

Beware of safe companies that brag about their hard plates and relock's protecting the combination box, but say nothing about protecting the linkage leading up to the combination box. It is every bit as important to protect the key parts of your linkage as it is to protect the combination box itself. One of the primary attack points happens to be the linkage or the cam that is actually being locked out, which many manufacturers simply do not protect. In another effort to save money, they may not install a proper raised mount for the combination box. Instead, they simply weld the hard plate directly to the door. A weld to the hard plate can be broken much easier because of the lack of the supports strength. Some manufacturers use a hard plate that is not hardened all the way through. The safe you buy should have a hard plate protecting the combination box as well as the independent relock. Make sure the hard plate is not welded directly on the door.


FROM BROWN

Gun safe buying tips

Here at Brown Safe Mfg, we pride ourselves in building safes that can withstand attack, be easily repaired, and continue to faithfully serve our clients; thus, providing long term savings and conserving resources. Use the following tips when looking to purchase a gun safe to better ensure the security of your cherished possessions.

* Always check that a safe has a U.L. Group 2 lock or better. The three dependable lock manufacturers are LaGard, Sargent & Greenleaf, and Kaba Mas. The last thing you want are your most valued items locked in a safe with a malfunctioning lock.

* It is important that the safe has a minimum of a ½†thick solid steel door (beware if the safe manufacturer doesn’t state solid steel or lists ‘composite’ as this can be anything from sheet metal wrapped around wood to sheet metal and drywall) and a ¼†thick solid steel body. Steel is expensive and many manufactures cut costs by making their safes with thin sheet metal.

* Consider convenience: if you don’t make the safe convenient you are less likely to use it. Adding an electronic lock can make opening the safe quick and easy, as well as enabling the user to easily reset the combination when needed (without the aid of a locksmith.)

* All safes should have relockers to help ensure the safe remains locked in the case of a burglary. Relockers are hardened pins that are triggered, in a variety of ways during an attack, and cannot be retracted without hours of drilling. The number of relockers on a safe will range from 2-10+ depending on the size and burglary grade of the safe.

* If a standard safe doesn’t fit your needs, consider a custom safe. Custom sizes, finishes, and interiors are available. We can work with you and/or your interior designer, architect, and carpenter to ensure your custom safe is built to the exact specifications needed.

* When shopping for a gun safe be aware of features that are only seen on ‘gun safes’ such has internal hinges, fire liners, etc. as they are usually marketing features more than safety features. The gun safe industry is very competitive and manufacturers are always coming out with ‘new features.’ It is often helpful to look at commercial safes to get an idea of how a safe, which is built for extremely high burglary risk, is constructed. For example, external hinges are a standard feature on commercial safes because the average burglar will waste time trying to cut or pry them. In any quality safe the hinges simply swing the door and shouldn’t be part of the security of the safe. Internal hinges usually cause the burglar to immediately attack the lock and other vital areas on the safe.

* Fire liners: Be extremely careful when considering a safe with a ‘fire liner,’ ‘ceramic fire layer,’ ‘fireboard,’ etc. You will never find these fire liners in a commercial or high end safe, simply because they do not work for any substantial length of time. Many of the manufactures are using the specifications of the building material used. For example ‘U.L. listed fireliner’ which just refers to the U.L. rating of the drywall used and in no way means the safe is U.L. rated. Also, many of the manufacturers will test the safes in there own labs rather than having an independent (preferably U.L. labs) test the safe.

Construction of a fire safe:

* A true U.L. rated fire only safe is made with two thin skins of sheet metal with a water retaining media (typically a concrete and vermiculite mixture) in between. The door jam is highly convoluted with a heat seal. As the heat hits the outside of the safe the fire retardant gives off the retained water as steam. This expands inside the safe and forces the heat out of the convoluted door jamb forming a heat seal. This steam also saturates the contents to artificially raise its flash point.

* Unfortunately this type of construction doesn’t provide any burglary protection due to the safe only having sheet metal and a soft fire media.

* If you are looking for burglary protection in addition to fire protection, the safe needs to be built with at least B-rated safe construction ( ½†thick solid steel door and ¼†solid steel body.) Due to the thickness of the steel (which will conduct heat) a 2.5†thick fire cladding must be used in order to insulate the steel portion of the safe from the heat of the fire. This fire cladding is a concrete amalgamate which insulates the solid steel portion of the safe. The fire cladding also has the advantage of adding considerable additional burglary protection (due to being a mix which includes concrete) with added torch, thermic lance and brute force protection. .

* When comparing gun safes it is helpful to compare the weight of similar sized models from different manufacturers. This will let you compare the actual amount of steel in the safe (as apposed to sheet metal wrapped around wood or drywall).

* If the safe is going to be stored in an area where there is high humidity or a drastic change in temperature throughout the day (i.e. garage) you should have a dehumidifier in the safe to absorb any excess moisture.

I have a pair of Browning safes, and each weigh about 900 pounds. That's more weight than two guys can handle. They've been opening every time for 10 years, and they're well made too.

No complaints at all about either one.

Don

My safe also weighs 900 pounds.

I used to sell AmSec safes when in Tucson. They are also well made.

I have a Sentry 48 Gun safe.It weighs 1200 lbs and has 60 Min. burn protection.

I have a Sentry 48 Gun safe.It weighs 1200 lbs and has 60 Min. burn protection.

I also have a Browning. It is full, looking at getting another one but not so expensive to make a little room. Been looking around for a good used one.

I've got the Liberty that holds 46-48 guns, whatever it is... I like it, but no one's tried to break into it yet

good advise listed above; I've got about 28-30 guns in mine, it's damn near full with that many, 46-48 guns would be tough to do....

Regards,
Craig Nolan

I have a liberty Centurey with a key/combonation combo. You have to have the key to turn the combonation knob. I also agree with gun socks to keep your guns ding free and a golden rod and as many sacks of gell beads as you can put in it...also a good light. Mine is around 600 lbs with no guns but I still bolted mine to the floor!!