Go back forty years and high fences were for zoos. Most folks could hunt at their parent's place or they had a friend (who had a friend) where you could hunt.

I look at some of the ads on various sites and the cost keeps going up and the number of hunters/acre keeps getting tighter. I'm seeing landowners wanting to put a gun on each 50 acres!

40 yrs ago there was no draw system to hunt various N Am game.

It just makes me wonder if the US will wind up like the UK...

being in my early 50's today, it really does not matter for me. Either I will be dead or too run down to get out and do anything.

I recall over 40 years ago reading and article in Outdoor Life (perhaps Field & Stream) about how in the future one would pay to hunt pheasants on a 'preserve'. I was about 14 at the time and it seemed like a silly concept. Fast forward and the only pheasant hunting I've done the past 20 years has been at such places. Every other year I do a tower shoot or a field hunt with placed birds. You could hunt for a month on public property around here and not see three pheasants.

I've also done some hog/fallow deer hunting behind high fence and actually enjoyed it. My sons were off to college in other states and our schedules did not align to do normal 'hunting season' stuff. So over school breaks we managed to do an overnight to a place and whack some critters. It was time well spent.

Like it or not, I suspect there will be more high fence hunting and/or preserves. I suspect there will be more and more private land leased up. The only hunting I see remaining the ~same assuming the gubmint doesn't outlaw it will be open-water migratory bird hunting.

in 40 years i suspect only the rich (or those who own enough land which will mean they are rich as well) will have access to land with big game on it. with the calculated population growth, i suspect only limited "government" land will be available to the masses, and it will be so very crowded (if hunting is allowed at all) that most will just look for other methods of recreation. i own a couple farms, so my kids and grandkids have and will always have a place to hunt deer and small game/birds. but looking at our youth today (as well as hunting license sales), one can easily see a drop in hunting.

I just hope it exist in 40 years ...

I honestly think that it will be a miracle if hunting of any kind is still in existance in 20 years, in fact I will be surprised if hunting is still going on except in extremely limited and controlled situation by 2020.

An old friend of my family who took my dad on his first whitetail hunt would tell me stories about hunting Colorado back in the 40's. He would tell about paying a fee of $20 for two elk, two deer, antelope and a bear. He would drive from the Tx panhandle in an old car with the back seat taken out to bring back all the meat. He wasn't a trophy hunter, he hunted for the table. Times have changed and will change again. JC

Almost as low-cost as Alabama TODAY!!

A resident pays $24 for a state-wide, ALL-game license.

If I purchase that license, and hunt ONLY in my home county, and limit out each day of the open season for each species, I can legally take:

Deer - Bucks 109 (yes, one hundred nine)
Does 109 (yes, again)

(On certain lands enrolled in a special program, I can take ANOTHER 109 does)

Turkey - gobblers only - 5

Dove, mourning and/or whitewing, combined total of 1035

Dove, European Collared (ringneck) - no limit, considered a pest

Quail - 1272

Rabbit - 1208

Squirrel - 1208

Raccoon - 755

Fox - hunting, not trapping - 155

Woodcock - 135

Snipe - 880

Duck - 418

Goose - 435

Bobcat and Opossum - no bag limit (however, there is a closed season and an open season)

Wild hog, groundhog, coyote, crow, beaver, nutria - NO CLOSED SEASON - NO BAG LIMIT

I just can't be so pessimistic! I've been hunting-- primarily in Wisconsin, but also in other parts of the US, Canada and Africa-- for 37 year, so almost 40. In Wisconsin the whitetail population has gone from around a quarter million, when I started hunting at age 12, to nearly two million. In fact, anyone who really pays attention to the biology of the situation recognizes that we have almost twice the number of deer that the habitat can support.
We have a small but growing elk herd, and in a few years will probably have the first elk hunt in over a century.
We had zero wild turkeys in Wisconsin thirty years ago. We now have excellent turkey hunting in almost every county in the state-- spring and fall. In fact we will probably have a fall season that runs from mid-September to the end of the year next season. Multiple tags are easy to get (I had three last spring.)
More and more public land is becoming availible to hunting every year.
Archery and gun license sales for deer this fall will be around 900,000, in state with a population of around five million.
Not everything is wonderful here, of course. While the state's population has grown over the years, the number of hunters has not, and the average age of hunters goes up. Still, more and more women are hunting, something that was quite rare when I started. My deer hunting "gang" has grown from my friend and I, when we started hunting together in 1995, to my two sons and I, my frind's son, my brother and his daughter and my two nephews.
A disturbing trend that has developed over the years is that it is increasingly difficult to get access to hunt on private land, at least for deer. This puts ever greater pressure on public land, of course.
I guess that of the changes I have seen over the years, the one that bothers me the most is the development of the hunting "industry," by which I mean the proliferation of hunting shows, hunting magazines and hunting paraphernalia. And it isn't these things per se that bother me so much as the mind set that they seem to produce: that the main purpose of hunting, of deer and elk hunting in particular, is to shoot an animal with the most inches possible on its head, and that shooting a buck or bull that doesn't "make the book" is hardly worth mentioning, or the effort required to bring it to bag. Perhaps because more and more hunters do not grow up in a hunting family, as I did, and come to it later in life, they come to it with different motives than most of us who grew up hunting. I hunt primarily to spend time outdoors, blending into the environment like the other predators, to do something I love with family and friends, and to put meat in the freezer-- pretty much in that order. I would love to shoot a B&C whitetail, elk, muley, etc. but haven't yet. And won't be particularly fussed if I don't. That is not an attitude toward hunting that I see encouraged by the vast majority of hunting shows, magazines, etc.

Things may look far worse in other states, but I am quite confident that my grandchildren, if they live in Wisconsin, at least, will be able to do even more hunting than I have if they want to.

bluefin:

I'm 79. When I was a teenager I could start hunting from a few minutes after stepping out doors from the house on the family property (located about 60 miles north of NY City and rural country in those days. Today people commute daily to NY City to work from the countryside of my youth) I didn't know what a "preserve" was for many years until I had the experience of hunting pheasants on a preserve - and have considerable difficulty in getting people who pay $500 (for a half day)to hunt pheasants to understand that "the real thing" ain't nothing like preserve shooting. My father was very nearly right when he said that mine was going to be the last generation in America to have the true hunting experience. Thus I wasn't too shocked when my PH on a 1993 hunt (for buff) expressed the emphatic opinion that he believed that real sport hunting for lion would be over in Africa in about 20 years. From what I'm reading nowadays his calendar isn't too far off. Whether it's America or Africa - it's the press of increasing humanity that is ending hunting. All of of us here should have lived in an earlier century.

That Sir, sums it up aas well as it could ever be stated.

The folks your age saw and experienced hunting that was different than what the folks my age, almost 59, have experienced.

The folks in their 30's and 20's are experiencing something completely different and they may be the last group to experience hunting in any form.

Very excellent post and sentiment Sir.

I don't think a hunter will be able to hunt in 40 years. It's already in a downturn, and its a damn shame!

The U.N [from what i have read] plans on returning 75% of the USA to wilderness'' NO GO ''areas for human beings, plus a 25 % buffer zone, then put everyone into cities. no farms ,no farming etc ,of course hunting will be out of the question .All based on Agenda 21 [plan for the 21 century] its all about what is Sustainable [in their minds]broadacre farming, cattle grazing ,farms,eating meat,car ownership ,private ownership of land, etc are to be phased out as ''unsustainable''.I dont know where the food is to come from ? and to reduce the worlds population to a contant ''sustainable'' 500 million people .How they are going to do that ,they dont say hmmm, but if you look at YOU TUBE and search for Fema coffins ,or vaults ,something is planned .If you have hunts ''i have always wanted to do'' i would do them now while you still can ,at the moment on TV there are advertisements trying to coerce people into giving up meat for the benefit of the planet .A fellow i know does Sustainability assessments of peoples homes for the Government, so this is not all conspiracy crap its all coming true

It will look alot better if we all make the commitment to take 3 kids out hunting this fall.

Lets improve our situation!

ddj

That would be great if a person could do that, but in our modern society can you visualize what it would be for say a 59 year old man to be offering to take kids hunting????

Too many parents of those kids have gotten so far away from anything doing with nature and the outdoors and the kids themselves are too wrapped up in computer games.

You have to have something that catches a childs attention and holds it, even fishing which is for the most part a much more active sport is losing numbers.

Extremely depressing thread......I'm gonna go drown my sorrows in some pulled pork, Texas brisket, and BBQ ribs with a side of cornbread. Maybe a nice cold Hefeweizen too.

quote:

Originally posted by wingnut:
Almost as low-cost as Alabama TODAY!!

A resident pays $24 for a state-wide, ALL-game license.

If I purchase that license, and hunt ONLY in my home county, and limit out each day of the open season for each species, I can legally take:

Deer - Bucks 109 (yes, one hundred nine)

BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You take that many deer now, and you will go to jail. Got this straight out of the Alabama Hunting Reqs today:

"WHITE-TAILED BUCK LIMIT – three during all combined seasons. One of the three must have at least 4 antler points 1” or longer on one antler (except for Barbour County). A point is an antler projection of at least one inch in length from base to tip. Main beam tip shall be counted as a point regardless of length. BARBOUR COUNTY ANTLER RESTRICTION –white-tailed deer bucks must have a minimum of three points on one side, (except on the statewide special youth deer hunting date)."

The glory days of nearly unlimited Alabama deer hunting are over. You can still take a lot of does, but they are proud of their bucks. Also, I'm a little curious as to how you are hunting with an Alabama resident hunting license when your signature line says you are from La.

Why not try! I'm only 30's and I'm not a big fan of the pessimistic attitude. I would rather try to help our passion instead of trying to just "hold on".

Get involved in County Sportsmans Clubs or National Organizations. Meet a few kids there and ask them to go hunting. Than ask if any of their friends want to go. It might even open up new area to hunt.

Just trying to stay positive. If we don't try, who else will?

ddj

quote:

Originally posted by Gerrypeters375:
bluefin:

I'm 79. When I was a teenager I could start hunting from a few minutes after stepping out doors from the house on the family property (located about 60 miles north of NY City and rural country in those days. Today people commute daily to NY City to work from the countryside of my youth) I didn't know what a "preserve" was for many years until I had the experience of hunting pheasants on a preserve - and have considerable difficulty in getting people who pay $500 (for a half day)to hunt pheasants to understand that "the real thing" ain't nothing like preserve shooting. My father was very nearly right when he said that mine was going to be the last generation in America to have the true hunting experience. Thus I wasn't too shocked when my PH on a 1993 hunt (for buff) expressed the emphatic opinion that he believed that real sport hunting for lion would be over in Africa in about 20 years. From what I'm reading nowadays his calendar isn't too far off. Whether it's America or Africa - it's the press of increasing humanity that is ending hunting. All of of us here should have lived in an earlier century.

I'm with the trouthunter....

I live another scant 30 miles north,and still walk out my back door.

And 40 miles to the west is some of the most productive black bear hunting in the northeast(Catskills)With increasing take every year,no draw,and paid as part of your big game license.(450 in 2007;520 in 2008)

That's NY,anyone gets a buck/bear tags over the counter,no draw required.Couple a hundred thousand acres free to access,forever wild.

Take a kid hunting or fishing!

I'm 21. I can assure you that I, and millions of others, will be hunting in 40 years.

I sincerely hope you optomists are right, but I seriously have my doubts.

Yes, there are little pockets around the country where things don't look as bad in others, but Nation Wide and World Wide, the numbers of hunters and fishermen is declining annually.

Also the average age of hunters and fishermen is steadily climbing and that only lasts for so long.

As the older among our ranks either become physically unable to hunt, or die off, there is not enough recruitment of new/young hunters to make up for the ones lost.

As the numbers of hunters and fishemen decline, license sales decline and state Game and Fish departments try to make up for their income shortfall by increasing license prices, which forces other people out of the sport, more so as the emphasis for hunting, especially white tail deer has moved away from trophy and meat, to Trophy Only for many folks.

Deer numbers are increaseing ever rapidily yearly all across the country, pushing less aggressive species, i.e. mule deer out, and take over new and many times marginal habitat.

Due to the reduced number of hunters, and the resultant reduction in the numbers of deer being taken out annually, then reducing that amount even further due to people only trying to take a Trophy Buck, the habitat in many areas is way above carrying capacity, and it is only going to get worse.

I know that a lot of folks, especially some of younger hunters don't like to hear the gloom and doom from the Old Fart's, but we have had the chance to watch hunting and the changes that have taken place in the attitudes of people as to where it fits into our society now, and in the future.

I can only really speak for myself, but I see no rosy future for hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
I sincerely hope you optomists are right, but I seriously have my doubts.

Yes, there are little pockets around the country where things don't look as bad in others, but Nation Wide and World Wide, the numbers of hunters and fishermen is declining annually.

Also the average age of hunters and fishermen is steadily climbing and that only lasts for so long.

As the older among our ranks either become physically unable to hunt, or die off, there is not enough recruitment of new/young hunters to make up for the ones lost.

As the numbers of hunters and fishemen decline, license sales decline and state Game and Fish departments try to make up for their income shortfall by increasing license prices, which forces other people out of the sport, more so as the emphasis for hunting, especially white tail deer has moved away from trophy and meat, to Trophy Only for many folks.

Deer numbers are increaseing ever rapidily yearly all across the country, pushing less aggressive species, i.e. mule deer out, and take over new and many times marginal habitat.

Due to the reduced number of hunters, and the resultant reduction in the numbers of deer being taken out annually, then reducing that amount even further due to people only trying to take a Trophy Buck, the habitat in many areas is way above carrying capacity, and it is only going to get worse.

I know that a lot of folks, especially some of younger hunters don't like to hear the gloom and doom from the Old Fart's, but we have had the chance to watch hunting and the changes that have taken place in the attitudes of people as to where it fits into our society now, and in the future.

I can only really speak for myself, but I see no rosy future for hunting.

Sir,

The reason that new hunter recruitment is decreasing is because the kids aren't exposed to hunting.

If you know the number of hunters is declining, why not try to reverse that!

I see that you do hunts in Texas, do you do free hunts for kids? If not, it might be a good way to expose some kids to hunting.

Please don't just go "tits up" with our hunting future. Do something to help!!

ddj

Also, I appreciate all the people that take time to take kids hunting and fishing.

I grew up in household that never hunted but had people who took me. That is why I feel so passionate about this.

ddj

Well I don't buy any of it, In CT we have more deer than we know what to do with, 40 years ago hardly any, and it 2009 we have at least 100 moose living here year round, we have turkeys out the backside too. The problem is that it take effort and most don't want to put in the effort, after all they have computers and the internet. People find other things, its not the shortage of places to hunt guys, its the shortage of time to go hunting, when I work, I don't have the time to even think about it, unemployment is nice for about a week its getting very old. Sure its going to be different just like it was different for every generation. We have a lot to be thankful for. Bow season is going to start in a couple of weeks and guess what its not really my thing but I Been shooting a spring a string and a sharp stick every day since march, I am going hunting and not worry about the bs.

I am kind of the "glass is half empty" kind of guy on this subject.. I think hunting is going to be a thing of the past by the time I'm a old man.. And that thought disturbs me. I certainly hope I am wrong. But with that thought, I am trying to cram as much hunting as I can every year, especially African hunting, into my yearly plans. I have gone damn near each yr since 2000 and will continue to do so until I am unable.
I want to pass along to a grandson someday a dusty mount of a big old dagga buff bull that hung in Grandad's casa all those years..

I will continue to be a part, albiet a small one, of the fight that fights to continue our hunting heritage with donations to such organizations as SCI, NRA, QU, DCS, etc. I will continue to offer my time to help out any youngster who has shown a keen interest in the outdoors.. I have a 2yr old daughter who I want to introduce to the world of firearms and hunting as soon a she's ready.

BTW, I am 31.

double post

I try and keep an open mind but the reality is that the number of hunters is dwindling. The Boy Scouts of America is really telling in just how many kids aren't getting outside anymore.
It's a shame. Hunting has taught me so many things, namely, that people all across the world are basically good. It's the governments you can't trust (and yes I include mine).
I live in Texas which is about as pro hunting as you'll find. But when I travel I continue to see more acres high fenced. Then you have the up and down economy which forces more and more ranches to sell only to have them broken up into smaller parcels and/or bought up by corporations.
The taxes on these properties are just enormous. It's a burden few can sustain.

The positives from 40 years ago is the accessibility of information. How guys like Selous, McElroy or O'Connor were able to get their information, find guides and make the actual journey is still a remarkable feat. Today we can get on the net and find everything from the outfitters that offer the hunts to the airlines that will drop us off and the guides to take us to our final destinations.

So from the viewpoint of being able to expand beyond the borders, it has been great. But our borders are what seem to be shrinking.

Predicting the future is difficult. Time changes everything – you can count on that. It’s the rate and direction of the changes that are unpredictable. Some things are constant and have barely changed since the beginning of time. Other changes move along at a steady pace. Other trends reverse themselves overnight.

I’m optimistic.

Will there be hunting in 40 years? Absolutely! The urge to hunt is coded in our genetics. As a species we simply love to hunt, kill and eat game. Maybe it’s the plan of a Divine Creator or the end result of millions of years of evolutionary biology. It works either way. Of course many people are able to suppress the hunting urge but for some of us it’s overwhelming. Look around on these forums. The passion for the chase is obvious and is found in people from all walks of life, all over the world. Look at all the happy faces of successful hunters posed with their kills. It doesn’t matter if the quarry was a squirrel or an elephant, the satisfaction can be seen in the hunter’s face. The imperative to hunt cannot and will not be denied. That’s a constant. To say that some future generation is going to simply give up hunting is about as realistic as saying they will give up sex.

What will hunting be like in 40 years? I’ve got a different perspective on this than others who have posted. Like many, I’m in my early to mid 50’s and have been hunting since 1970. But my background is very different from most. I was born and raised in a large city. No one in my family hunted and there no farmers, ranchers or large landowners to be found anywhere in my lineage. My father tried his hardest to discourage my interest in hunting. (He failed miserably.) Dad would say “hunting is a rich man’s sport” and “it’s hard to find a place to hunt and it’s only going to get worse.” He was wrong and he was right. The money part is a matter of priorities and I’ve learned that in life many of the things worth doing are difficult.

Hunting, for me, was never easy nor was it something that I took for granted. As a kid I had to beg to hunt and the best that Dad could do was to ask my uncles to let me tag along on their “hunts” which were actually drinking expeditions. I have never known a time when finding a good place to hunt was a matter of going to Grandpa’s place or knocking on a farmhouse door. My hunting opportunities are not, and never have been, assured.

Without a mentor and with few opportunities my hunting career progressed slowly. I remember well the “good old days.” Finding a fresh deer track was an exciting event and actually shooting one was as likely as winning the lottery. “Bucks only” was the rule unless you drew a “party permit” which was impossible for a solo hunter. I was 24 years old when I first tasted meat of my own killing. You can keep the “good old days.” Things are much better now than they were 40 years ago. My uncles who lived in the “golden age” of hunting can count the number of deer they’ve taken on one hand. But thanks to the exploding deer herd and the trophy mentality of today’s sportsmen I now have farmers calling and asking for my help filling damage control permits. I’ve legally killed over 500 deer since the first one fell to my rifle back in the late 1970’s. I’ve taken a dozen or more each of mule deer, antelope and elk.

That’s my story. But what does it have to do with future generations and hunting 40 years from now? I think my experience predicts the future of hunting fairly well. There will always be those who will answer the inborn urge to hunt and stick with it despite the difficulties. Hunting in the coming decades will be expensive and finding the time and a place to hunt will not be easy. But the hunter of the future will persevere. And the efforts of a young man or woman with the drive and ambition to be a good hunter will be rewarded.

The number of hunters will certainly diminish. Is that a bad thing? Maybe not. You can be certain there will be fewer places left to hunt. But fewer hunters afield will mean less competition and more opportunities. The population of ungulates will probably continue to increase. Who is going to control it? The states will not have the money to do it. I’d bet that in the future there will be (nonprofessional) hunters who will rack up kill numbers that would put a 19th century market hunter to shame. It won’t be like living on the frontier but it will be hunting just the same. I don’t know about you but I’d be happy to shoot flies off of dog sh-t with a rubber band if that was the only kind of hunting available.

Do I do free hunts for kids, no I don't and you won't find a lot of folks that do.

The big reason is that so many parents have gotten away from hunting and the outdoors and very few people are just going to send their kids to someone they don't know personally, so the kid can go hunting or fishing for that matter.

I ain't going to pay the bus fare on 1 let alone 3 kids to come from the DFW MetroMess, 400 miles to let them have an experience that they are not going to be intereted in or that will not do them any good once they return home.

The folks that I know personally, have their kids involved in hunting, in fact I know or associate very rarely with people that do not hunt or fish or both.

Unlike some operators I do give a discount for youths, but the youths I get are ones from families that do hunt.

I too grew up in a household that did not hunt, and I learned from a few friends that took me hunting and on my own.

I believe there is another factor at work in the decline of hunting, but I have no way of proving it.

I can not say with certainty it is genetically controlled, but I feel that it may be.

My earliest memories revolve around animals and I can truthfully say, that I was born with the desire to hunt in my pysche.

People today have basically had that bred out of them, and unless they have contact with associates/friends/aquaintences, that do hunt/fish, on a fairly full time basis, the desire to hunt, even if it is present may never manifest its self.

I do not like what I am seeing happen to hunting in the least bit, but unlike some folks that seem to want to take the approach that either the facts that are readily available are not accurate, or that if we ignore the forces that are working against the long term survival of hunting and fishing, they will go away.

I am a realist, and the fact that we have the present PTB's in office, and with all possibility that they will remain in office for the next 8 years, not just 4, hunting is facing extinction, plain and simple.

Our world and country have changed, and people in one state or region or local, ignoring what is happening in other parts of the country/world, is only going to help hasten the demise of hunting.

Yes there are pockets all across the country where hunting is holding its own in some respects, but just barely.

Going Tits Up refers shooting doe deer, a practice a growing number of hunter are frowning on, simply because all they want are the trophies and don't even eat deer meat.

I understand your intentions and passion for the sport trouthunterdj, and I salute you for them and hope that you are successful, but that does not change the fact that hunting is going to slip away from us and we are not going to be able to stop it.

If nothing else points that out, just think about the last Presidential election and who took office and the Party he belongs too, I hope I am wrong and you are right, but I believe that is the death knell for hunting, and it is just a matter of time now.

The only thing holding it back is because there are too many more pressing problems facing this administration, so that they can not focus on their pet projects as they are want to.

This is all JMO.

“I too grew up in a household that did not hunt, and I learned from a few friends that took me hunting and on my own.”

“My earliest memories revolve around animals and I can truthfully say that I was born with the desire to hunt in my pysche.”

It sounds like we have a lot in common! I’ve had a fascination about animals since childhood. We’re not alone. I went on a cow elk hunt with a guide in Utah who also runs a booking/consulting service. At one time he was editor-in-chief of one the biggest outdoor magazines in the USA. This man was absolutely passionate about hunting and, of course, we hit it off very well. His father told him to forget about hunting. The introduction of the internet has shown me that the manifestation of a strong hunting interest despite a background that is not conducive is far from unique.

There has to be some genetically induced urge. It may be possible to “breed out” the urge to hunt over time but will take centuries, not decades. It won’t happen overnight.

For whatever reason I have little, if any, interest in fishing and that’s something that my father liked to do. Many people simply cannot write the word “hunting” without following it with “and fishing.” Not me – hunting is to fishing like golf is to baseball. And that seems to be a trend. In earlier times many outdoorsmen did it all: fish, camp, trap, hunt upland birds, waterfowl and deer. Nowadays we tend to specialize. This may be the result of time and money constraints.

Taking youngsters who don’t have the urge afield is probably a waste of time and effort. The person (of any age) who shows interest should be helped and encouraged but even that may not be necessary. If the urge is there it WILL be addressed! If future generations lose interest in hunting and the outdoors the tradition will fade. It will be their loss, not mine. You and I will be long gone so what difference will it make? It may sound selfish but I had my hunting opportunities and took advantage of them as best I could. And I’m grateful to God for it.

The end of hunting has been predicted for well over 100 years. I’ve read articles written in the 1880’s that lamented the loss of wilderness and relentless march of civilization. The authors urged sportsmen to hunt while they had the chance because the early years of the new century (1900’s) would certainly see the end of any chance to do so. The more things change the more they stay the same.

Taking this Off Topic just a little, but let me throw out somethings for you to consider.

Say you drive up to a new area, and you have to get ouit and do some scouting to find travel corridors, try to figure out the games preferrd foods and their active times.

You also have to figure out how weather affects them and moon phases.

In some cases you have to develope feeding areas and also where necessary, areas that provide safety and cover.

Laws and regulations have to be implemented to prevent over harvest and in some cases certain sized or sex individuals have to be protected at various times of the year.

That is a fairly simple but accurate explanation of hunting, but I am talking about fishing, both are a form of hunting, the difference lies in how the animal/fish is brought to bag.

Back on topic, I appresiate everything everyone is saying in defense of hunting, and I sincerely hope you folks are right and I am wrong.

See the thing some of you do not seem to grasp, is that just because things have not "Cganged", which if you really look at it, things have changed radically with hunting since 1909 in this country, there is No Guarantee that the present state of affairs can not or will not accelerate at a rate that will amaze and astound all of us.

If I am wrong, No Big Deal, it won't be the first time nor will it be the last, but no one, not even me loses anything if I am wrong.

If I am right, we all lose.

Things have indeed changed since 1909. Market hunting depleted herd numbers drastically until the cessation of it mid-century. Many areas of the country banned elk and mule deer hunting for years while herds recovered. They had been completely shot out of other parts of the country well before the turn of the twentieth century. Since the end of WW II, we have been rebuilding herd numbers of all species and successfully re-introducing big game species in areas they have been missing for a hundred years. Now we have a huntable elk population in Kentucky. Who would have predicted such a thing in 1960 or any other of the "golden years"?

Technology, land use and big agriculture have changed hunting, to be sure but I doubt it will cease to be available to people 40 years from now. The popularity of hunting will swing like a pendulum and a new generation will take it up in numbers matching the available game. It may skip a generation and at 56 I may not see it, but it will happen.

Crazyhorseconsulting,

Sorry if I miss spoke, I wasn't saying that you should give free hunts to random people. I meant to say that I have been around folks who would let kids hunt if they were with a paying gaurdian. Their rationale was that some uncle, father or grandfather would say "if they are free, I might as well bring Johnny". Kids would be exposed to hunting.

I guess I just try to expose my sons (he is 6) friends to hunting. I tell them hunting stories of the mounts they are looking at in my den. I try to make it exciting and may even exagerate a bit.

The key is to plant seeds. Make them think hunting is a good thing and something they may want to do. One of my sons friends come from a home of anti-hunters. He asked me if I would take him hunting someday? I said I would ask his dad. You never know what difference you can make.

ddj

quote:

The U.N [from what i have read] plans on returning 75% of the USA to wilderness'' NO GO ''areas for human beings, plus a 25 % buffer zone, then put everyone into cities. no farms ,no farming etc ,of course hunting will be out of the question .All based on Agenda 21 [plan for the 21 century] its all about what is Sustainable [in their minds]broadacre farming, cattle grazing ,farms,eating meat,car ownership ,private ownership of land, etc are to be phased out as ''unsustainable''.I dont know where the food is to come from ? and to reduce the worlds population to a contant ''sustainable'' 500 million people .How they are going to do that ,they dont say hmmm, but if you look at YOU TUBE and search for Fema coffins ,or vaults ,something is planned .If you have hunts ''i have always wanted to do'' i would do them now while you still can ,at the moment on TV there are advertisements trying to coerce people into giving up meat for the benefit of the planet .A fellow i know does Sustainability assessments of peoples homes for the Government, so this is not all conspiracy crap its all coming true
Posts: 193 | Location: Australia | Registered: 07 April 2006

That sounds like a reverse version of what Pol Pot did in Cambodia. Was it millions or several hundred thousand dead as a result of his social engineering? It also sounds like why we spent fifty years fighting the Cold War and what tens of thousands gave their lives fighting against in Korea and Vietnam.

Be that as it may, all of what many of us are saying here on hunting and in other areas is true of course. But, the REAL downer IMO is the sense that all we can do is constantly complain about it and that as a practical matter there's nothing that can be done to change anything. The reasons being the demographics in the U.S. and the control of the news media and entertainment industry by what I'll call the Demagogue Socialist Party.

But, is there something that can actually be done? Something other than hoping against vain hope of maybe eeking out a narrow win in the next Congressional election or in 2012 (neither scenario is likely at all). Something more of a long-term real change.

I can think of only one such possibility, and that is a general political re-alinement that would require re-defining our borders to omit and delete certain areas such as LA and SF thus denying to the enemies of freedom parts of the electorate they must have to win. These are areas dominated and populated by many who hate and despise us and who don't consider themselves Americans. And there is little love lost by us for them as well. So a clean break would be in everyone's best interest.

It would require probably a constitutional convention, and I have a feeling the areas affected might not even object. They could be independent or U.N. provinces or whatever.

Our country would be a far better, more beautiful place.

But, it will be either organize and take action, or the alternative is to just keep on doing as tens of millions of like minded good people are doing now, which is the constant wailing over each disheartening defeat of the day as it comes.

At least that's a plan. Are there others? If there are now is the time.

As for the hunting part of the larger overall issue, my grandson is ten and is learning to shoot and wants to hunt. So we're going right ahead with it regardless.

quote:

Sorry if I miss spoke

You did not mis-speak, I am glad that you and others are trying, some of us just are not capable of that for various reasons.

I guess I am just a natural pessimist on some things, simply because I have spent a lot of time studying human nature.

I just feel that the deck is stacked too well against hunters and fishermen.

I just don't want to be in the crowd, standing around like the crowd was after the last presidential slection, scratching their asses, saying I did not think this would happen.

I think in 40 years hunting will be a way of life since most people will live in caves, and skin tents. They will hunt with rocks and sticks

You know, you could be right.

All this talk about hunting dying, well that actually might happen to sport hunting but hunting to stay alive might overshadow a bunch of stuff if society goes belly up with the Great Change.

Guided projectiles will probably exist. They will be hugely expensive, the common man won't be able to afford them. The anti's will insist that anyone who doesn't use them is irresponsible.

Norton:

Actually, you shouldn't be so depressed- because the hunting that is disappearing is on land . Duck and goose hunting seems to be doing just fine - which is probably what you and that misguided Bosox fan, Kamo Gari, want all along. Who ever thougtht that ducks would rule the world!

Norton:

In a follow up to my last post - you live in NH and eat food like that? (That's not an insult - I just don't know what it is - Really, it's OK if you're telling me you like to eat food in NH that I would have starved before I ate elsewhere {I have a rule not to eat anything anywhere in the world that looks funny - I never thought that I had to watch about food in NH. Anyway, I'm grateful that you and that other duck hunting fanatic, Kamo Gari, have given this innocent New Yorker sufficient warning about hunting ducks with you! We New Yorkers are more advanced in our eating interests! (Regards to you and NH)