I'm more than a little biased hear because I do own and shoot a CZ 6.5x55 and a 9.3x62... I'd also love a 9.3x64. I guess my 404 could even be referred to as a 10.75x73.

My 6.5 is my deer rifle, my 9.3 covers everything else, and my 404 is for things to come.

I'm by no means suggesting that the 6.5 is superior to the 270 or that the 9.3 is better than the 35 Whelen or 375 H&H. I chose these three particular carts because I'm a sucker for nostalgia and I enjoy owning rifles that are a bit queer for those hunters not in the know.... I like something different.

American cals have better factory rounds, are cheaper to shoot, and provide better, or rather more diverse, selections of bullets for handloaders. If I thought I could find brass for the Brenneke, I'd turn my 35 Whelen into one.

So my question... Do these and other metric cartridges serve any utilitarian purpose that their american counterparts do not ( i.e. do they fill a niche in cal/power/or otherwise that is somewhat relevant in the U.S.)? Would you suggest a metric for a fella on the prowl for a new rifle (newbie or otherwise)? Are we few rifle psychos that do handload for these rounds wasting our time? (this discussion obviously excludes the 7mm). What is the future of some of these cals?

THANKS for the input fellas.

Oh, and my humble opinion... they are not entirely necessary. The 9.3 has more case capacity than the Whelen and less recoil than the 375, but the extra case capacity over the whelen isn't necessary in the lower 48, and the 375 has quite a bit more power. Analagous arguements and counter arguements can be made for most all metric carts in this country.

To me, it's what ever floats you boat. I've got around 7 rifles, and I really only need the nine three (trimmed down from 13). That said, does my wife really need 300 pairs of shoes, do I really need the extra soft four ply toilette wipe, and do I need to to spend hours staring at a computer writing this fodder?

404 Jeffery just sounds a heck of a lot sexier than 10.75x73

Indeed it does

Maybe you're onto something here e.g. 9.3x62= 366 Extenze, or 366 Porsche?

I also tend to like the old cartridges. I love my 300 H&H, shoot a 7x64 in a Ruger Mod 77 (same recipe as a 280 Rem), and just picked up a Winchester Classic Fwt in 6.5x55. The old cases seem to have more taper than modern cases. I don't know if it's a good thing but I like it so I'll keep shooting them. No, I don't believe they fill any "niche" not filled very well by modern cases - but they do turn heads and life is too short to hunt with ugly appliances or ordinary cartridges.

reminds me oa many moons ago, clarence purdie made up a old hiwall in 5.6x50rmag. bonanza was making the dies for europe then and he though the round would be a good thing to chamber a #1 ruger in. Tom ruger came around and clarence took him out to the range to show him. They fired a few rounds and tom looks at clarence and tells him - yup thats a nice thing but you can't get ammo in the US for it. Clarence had this dumbfounded look on his face. Never thought of that he replied. That was the beginning and end of the 5.6x50rmag for #1 rugers. Eventually after clarence died I bought the rifle. And as usual in a fit of gun traditis i sold it so i could buy another double

quote:

Originally posted by maddenwh:
Indeed it does

Maybe you're onto something here e.g. 9.3x62= 366 Extenze, or 366 Porsche?

Noooooooooooooooooooo!!









Regards,

Gh

Never underestimate the gullibility of the American buying public!

I'm convinced it all comes down to how intensely a new metric cartridge is marketed. A few lines of hyperbole in a glossy magazine or TV advert, mixed in with a quote from some shooting celebrity and there you have an instant best seller. Adding 'new & improved!' never hurts either, even though everyone should know that there's nothing new under the sun after centuries of gun and ammo making; it's all recycled, just with new glitz. Harrumph.

There are many many cartridges that overlap and duplicate actual field performance.

IMO the reason most people choose any cartridge is because of nostalgia, or emotion.

From a purely practical standpoint, one should choose the rifle first. Find one that is appealing, and most importantly fits the individual as far as weight, LOP, drop, and handling. You will have good rifle, no matter the cartridge it is chambered for. Bacause many of the cartridge will fill the bill so to speak.

I absolutely love the 270 Winchester cartridge. I have too much history and confidence in it. I would never ever replace it with a metric, but if forced, I would choose a 7x57 mauser, although the 7mm-08 does the same thing.

I also love my 338-06's and don't think I would replace them with any of the 8mm's or 9.3x62.

I have a pair 9.3x64 Brennekes' that I won't be getting rid of anytime soon, and in fact, replaced a 375 H&H with that cartridge. Mainly because of the rifle that it can be housed in.

If I go bigger yet, it would have to be a 404 Jeffery. But in reality I don't see that happening anytime soon. My Brenneke's will do everything I will ever ask them to do. Short of elephant (won't happen). I don't think I will ever feel undergunned, although the 375's, H&H and Ruger, are more powerful.

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
Never underestimate the gullibility of the American buying public!

I'm convinced it all comes down to how intensely a new metric cartridge is marketed. A few lines of hyperbole in a glossy magazine or TV advert, mixed in with a quote from some shooting celebrity and there you have an instant best seller. Adding 'new & improved!' never hurts either, even though everyone should know that there's nothing new under the sun after centuries of gun and ammo making; it's all recycled, just with new glitz. Harrumph.

I guess I was referring to established European metrics... can't really even think of a new metric being heavily advertised in the US (9.3x66, but not much marketing going on there). Certainly readaptaions of metric cartridges have been campaigned for here in the states (all the 7mm, 8mm remy mag, 6.5 remmy mag, .325 wsm, etc.) but it's hard to recall any that have been too successful other than the 7mm's.

I guess I should have clarified in the post that I'm considering british cals as non-metric or non-European. I referred to the 404 Jeff as European b/c it might be that teh 10.75x73(404 in GB) Schuler may have actually been developed in Germany, not England.

There is really no need for anything new unless you are a gun manufacturer and have to keep creating a market.
For me these are both over 100 years old and still as fresh as ever.

Von Gruff.

quote:

Originally posted by Von Gruff:
There is really no need for anything new unless you are a gun manufacturer and have to keep creating a market.
For me these are both over 100 years old and still as fresh as ever.

Von Gruff.

The 6.5 X 55 has been around how long????? One of the most popular in Europe (along w/the 16ga. but that's another topic) Load data available for 80-160gr. bullets. Never understood why it hasn't taken off on this side of the pond. Maybe no marketing hype like onefunzr2 says. I see it written up every few years on one of the gun magazines, I always buy it just for the article.

One day I'm going to get my hands on one (not a '96 Mauser, got one for a "one day project" almost 20yrs ago, still in the safe) at what for me is a decent price.

Have one in a cz, and I agree its a great round... if it's longevity as a big game cart in Europe is an indicator of it's efficacy on bigger critters, I expect to have good results on piggies with 140 grained bullets. Won't lie though, my first shot fired on my next hog hunt will be with my new 404.

I think it's a pretty good bet that the Germans created the 10.75x73. If Jeffry made it why wouldn't they have used the same bore size as their 400 Jeffry? I like my 9.3x62, but there wouldn't really be a need for it if someone made a decent bullet weight for the 35 Whelen. Other than that, as far as I'm cocerned, the Europeans can keep most of their cartridges and their soccer balls too.