Anyone here had any experience with these mongoloid looking bullets? I couldnt help but wonder what one of those .30 cal 250 grn puppies could accomplish in an 06 or better. Maybe shooting those would be a good reason to make a gun AI for the extra powder..

Im guessing they dont shoot very accuratly and may not stabalize in certian guns??

I am happy that you asked that question. I am wondering my self.
I'll check this post for more informative responses..

I found a bag with about thirty of these in an old gunshop a few years ago and tested them in a Mauser 30-06 with a 24" Sukalle barrel. They ran 2,250-2,300 fps with safe but stiff charges of IMR 4350 and H4831. (Hodgdon and Barnes both have data.) Accuracy at 100 yards was about 1.25 MOA in a rifle that normally shoots well under MOA with lighter bullets.

In my book, this almost puts the 30-06 in 318 Rimless Nitro Express country, with enough accuracy for anything I'd ever shoot with a 250 grain bullet. I think these bullets make a lot of sense in a big 300 Magnum, but I don't think I would convert an otherwise servicable 30-06 to AI just for them, mostly because you'd have to load to very high pressures to make much of a difference. I doubt the difference would be enough to warrant the change, and I'd have concerns about using the rifle in hot weather.

As a humorous note, I think Barnes publishes data for the 300 Savage and 308 Winchester using this bullet. Heh, heh...

Okie John

Thanks Okin John,

I paid the Barnes factory a visit yesterday in my travels. Theyve got some dandy trophys. I believe they are phasing out the "original" line so making a gun for the purpose of shooting them would be futile indeed. The data they gave me also shows them @ 2200-2300 fs.

One of those in a 300 Savage would be a joke, after seating it might have room for 80% powder capacity. But if a guy were hunting in grizz country and only had a 30 cal available they might be a viable option.

A quote from "Cartridges of the World" is, "The '06 performs impressively with handloads using 250 grain bullets." They show 2100 ft/sec with the 250 grain using 47 grains of IMR 4831 and Barnes as the source. That's not much velocity but cape buffalo are usually shot at close range anyway. That might also be a milder load for hot climate Africa. I have a 7mm mauser and am going to order some of the 195 grainers just because they "are" phasing them out, not because I necessarily need them. I had some of these custom loaded and they are accurate(MOA) in my 1 n 9 twist 22" Lilja at about a surprizing 2400. If you are interested in max weight bullets then you should order some just so you will have them and enough to last for your needs. A 1 n 10 twist '06 will stabalize them. They have already phased out the 6.5s and others because they want to go just with the X style bullets.

Try Hawk bullets if you like pure copper and pure lead bullets.

The best information I have is they have a rather short expansion range, i.e. they don't open well at low impact speeds, and they tend to ball up, rather than do a classic mushroom.
At high impact speeds, they tend to loose their cores.
They were one of, if not the, first of the custom, premium style bullets. They are made from pure copper tube and pure lead cores. They aren't bonded.
Depending on impact speeds, they retain anywhere from 60-80% of their weight.
The X, in lighter weights, retains more weight and opens at much lower impact speeds. They also have a much higher BC. E

[ 09-12-2002, 02:32: Message edited by: Eremicus ]

Don't know about the .30 cal. bullets but have shot 300 grain originals in 45/70. At 1770 fps they would expand to around .60 cal. Expanded much more than the 300 grain HPs from Rem. From the expansion I would not use them on heavy boned animals...........Roy

What would the optimum velocity for .30 cal 250 gr Barnes Orig. be? That is, at what velocity will the core separation occur?

My Vihtavuori N165 load (somewhat slower than 4831 I believe) in .30-06 AI obviousely maxed out at 58 - 59 grs (2500 fps) 60 grains will not increase velocity.

Should I stick with it or is there something to be gained? I believe the slow powder is a safe alternative in hot weather(?)

Boha