I've got a black bear hunt booked in June. This will be my second bear hunt, the first was with a bow.
Anyway I'm buying a Winchester 30-06 with a Leupold 3-9x40 Vari-x II scope on it, it has the standard duplex. Would this be a good scope for hunting over bait in New Brunswick? I've thought of selling it and buying either a Vari-x III 2.5-8x36 with the standard duplex or one of the new vx-II 3-9x40 scopes with the heavey duplex. Do you think I need a heavey duplex. Would a Vari-x III be that much better than a II. I guess I could answer than for myself I've got two Vari-x IIIs in the gun rack. Anyway what scope would you recommend for a black bear over bait in fading light at about 75 yards a long way from home. Thanks for your help.

mark65x55 I have 3 Leupold scopes with the heavy duplex, a 1.5x5, a 1.75x6 and a 2.5x8. I highly recommend the heavy duplex for dim light and heavywoods use. It is no handicap for 300 yard shots either.
What bullet do you plan on using?

Either a 200gr Speer hot-core or a 200gr Nosler Partition.

Take a look at the illuminated reticle option on the Leupold. The red cross shows up well against black.

kk

kk
That's a bit out of my price range.

A heavy reticle is a good thing in the dark. I assume you're going to be in a treestand? If so, then practice snapping the rifle to your shoulder and putting the crosshairs just over your bait as you first get settled in your stand. That will help you quickly get the scope on the bear when the time comes, even if it's pretty dark.

I have had very good luck with a 220 grain Hornady roundnose in the '06 for shooting bears at close range. The high s.d and soft nose of the bullet provide complete penetration and a very large exit wound. Limit velcoity to about 2400-2500 fps, and you've got deadly bear medicine.

mark65x55,
I think that you will find more light available when the bears are out than you think. If I'm not mistaken, June will find the sun not going down until close to midnight. Twilight lingers for ever, it seems. I hunt over bait here in Alaska and have used a Vari X II, 2 x 7 pwr for many years. It is equipped with the standard duplex reticle. I haven't had what I'd consider a problem as relates visibility. I usually keep er' dialed at 3 or 4 power. The 3-9 should be fine. Has the outfitter/camp made any recommendations? They at the least should have an idea.
Good luck on the hunt.

best,
bhtr

Personally I like the low powered stuff and I would have a 1-4x20mm leupold on my 30/06 if I could afford the change.

Mark, I have found the regular Leupold Duplex too thin for low light hunting (in the woods, towards the end of legal hours, say). A heavy Duplex performs a lot better here. If you can't afford the illuminated reticle, the heavy Duplex would be my personal choice.

There are drawbacks to the heavy duplex, which you should be aware of: On the range you need a somewhat larger bullseye, and in all honesty, the heavy Duplex on average probably pushes group size up a tad - simply because the regular duplex allows you to place the cross hairs more precisely on the bullseye every time. It is a bit akin to comparing the accuracy you can get with a lower vs. a higher magnification scope. Possibly a different kind of target might help??

When that is said, I don't believe it makes a hoot of difference for hunting purposes. I have shot long range with a heavy Duplex, and never felt the need for a finer reticle. As a matter of fact, even in bright light, I often found the heavy reticle reassuring, it is almost like it is faster to pick up. IMHO the fine Duplex could easily cause loss of a hunting opportunity, the heavy Duplex could not. To stay with the comparison from above: MUCH MUCH more game has been lost because of too high scope magnification than because of "not enough" scope magnification!

Finally for a personal nit. Why on earth is it that scope makers don't catch onto, that what is needed is THICK outer arms and THIN crosshairs in the Duplex?? It is so obvious once you have experienced a low light hunting situation, that what you really see are the outer arms of the Duplex, not necessarily the cross hairs. With thin cross hairs, you would not have the (slight) drawback of the heavy Duplex on the range. Zeiss is the only scope maker I know of that approaches this ideal. Check out a 3-9x32 Zeiss (US manufactured these days). Better than Leupold as far as reticle is concerned! Still, with a Leupold Vari X III 3.5-10x50 and a heavy Duplex, you probably still have better overall low light performance because of the larger objective lens.

Vari X II vs Vari X III: In my experience, one major advantage of the Vari X III series is that they have better vindage and elevation controls - clicks. Don't know whether Vari X II series still comes without this these days?? (This, btw, is another area where the Zeiss beats the Leupold hands down - much more accurate controls!). The Vari X III series also used to have better coating - something you won't notice until the light is poor, probably.

Btw, don't overlook that Leupold will change the reticle for you for not to many $$$. I have had 2 2.5-8 Vari X III equipped with heavy Duplex reticles, and been more than happy with them.

What also sometimes helps in low light is to look through the scope towards the (brighter) sky, center the crosshairs, and then move to the target. Don't know how much movement your bear will allow you, though
- mike

[ 02-25-2003, 16:10: Message edited by: mho ]

Thanks for all the replys and keep them coming.

Take a look at the # 4 reticle. I use it for low light hunting and find it superb.
It gives you the thin midsection of the duplex
combined with thick horisontal and vertical bars.

My experiences of hunting black bear in low light are similar to above. Hunting over bait, the shots are going to be fairly close. I shot one blackie in very low light that I couldn't see my reticles whatsoever, but I could still pick out the bear's shoulder because of good quality glass.

I broke down and bought the 06 today, it's my first 30-06.
I should have it in a week or two. I'm still leaning toward buying a 3-9x40 heavey duplex vx-II leupold scope for it but I'll wait and take a look at the vari-x II first. I've got some 200gr Speers and Noslers I plan to load for it. Now I need to order some dies and brass. Buying a new gun is fun

Mark,
Where in New Brunswick are you hunting, what outfitter? If it is late june it will get dark around 9:45 - 10:00. I use a 3-9 X 40 Bushnell 3200 on my .338 and had no problems with light, in fact I could see better through the scope than I could by naked eye. I think a heavy duplex is a good idea but not a nessecity, but please just keep the power turned down when it is hunting time. All my bears have been shot within 1/2 hour of dark but never at dark. As far as bullet choice goes, leave those speers at home and use the partitions. There are enough problems tracking in these woods by June with the heavy foilage so a good blood trail is important if he doesn't drop on the spot. Also very important: BRING SOMETHING TO KEEP THE BUGS OFF . The black flies are very small and can work there way through some netting. If you thought a bear has a big appitite, just hold your arm out bare in june and the flies will almost chew it off.

NBHUNTER,

Thanks for the advice. On my one and only bear hunt I went to Newfoundland the first of June. I've donated my shear of blood to the local fly population. I swear if those thing were bigger one bite would kill you. I'll be there June 01-08 with North View Lodge.

I'm not familier with North View, what's the name of the area it's in? The week of your hunt it gets dark around 9:42 but that shouldn't be a problem as last year we had a lot of our timers on the baits set off around 8:30 - 9:00. The raccoons will keep you company till then.

NBHunter

Its near Plaster Rock, New Brunswick across the border from Presque Isle, Maine. I'm not sure what area its in. Thanks for the heads up on the Noslers, I've already got 2 boxes of them to play with

I use a Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70, with Warne QR Rings and Weaver Grand Slam Steel Mounts and a Leupold 1.5X 5 and a Williams Fire Sight Front. This setup with Win Supreme 300 grain Nosler Part. factory load is excellent on black bear if you do not handload. For bears bigger holes seem to work better because of the hair tend to clog up the hole.

Buy yourself a "Bug Tammer Jacket" well worth the money.

I don't have much dinaro so I use what I have and save my money to pay the guides and outfitters . I shoot a Browning BLR .358 win with handloaded .250 grn speers at 2350 coronographed not guessed and use a leaupold 2x7 vxII. There are much better rigs but I can't afford them. However I have managed to kill nearly 30 bear over bait and dogs with this rig in all kinds of light .I've also used an 06 Bar with 180 nosler partitions and a Leaupild vx III 3x9 it worked just fine.Enjoy the hunt and watch the bugs.

If you are going to buy dies go with the redding 3 die set. It will save you money in the end when you someday decide to neck size and personally I think redding dies are the best in their price range.

Mark65x55:

You are more likely to get a shot as dark approaches. Since it's NB, you will have more light than you or I are accustomed to after 8PM. ( I have shot several blacks as early as 5PM or so in Ontario but a really large black is liable to wait for approaching dark, several hours later)

NB doesn't have as much evergreen cover (so the woods aren't as dark) as Ontario does - so you should have more light. PLEASE get rid of a 3x9 scope! A good 4x scope - NOT a fixed 4x (use something like the Leopold 1x4) is ideal for sitting on bear stand. Your biggest problem will be in getting a sight picture. A black bear is really BLACK! Forget about so called "light gathering" scopes. There ain't no such thing. It's advertising hoopla. (Scopes "magnify". It's your eye that does the "light gathering". If you can't focus in the near dark, then it's time to quit for the day and try again tomorrow) Just my thoughts.

Mark
I highly recommend the Leupold with the heavy duplex. I have a 1.5x5, 1.75x6 and 2.5x8, all with the heavy duplex.
They will work at long range as well. I shot a coyote mat 271 yards with the 2.5x8.

I've hunted over bait a few times in Quebec, where I've used a Nikon 3-9X40 and an old model (not multicoated) Leupold 4X33 (which is noticeably dimmer than a new FX-II 4X33 I recently purchased). Both scopes had the standard duplex and both worked fine. If it's so dark that you can't see the bear through your scope, it's probably too dark to shoot, you certainly won't be following the blood trail without a flashlight.

One of my early June bears weighed 390 lbs. whole, he came out at 400 p.m., and it didn't get dark until about 1000. He was absolutely hammered by a 130 grain Trophy Bonded Bearclaw from my 270. It went through his onside shoulder, left a 3/4" hole through his heart, and ended up under the skin in the offside ham. He made it about 10 feet. Loaded with premium bullets your 30-06 is ideal for bears.

Since you've been to Newfoundland before, you probably know about the bugs, but I would definitely reccommend a bug jacket with integral hood and face mask. I don't bother with the mesh pants, I just wear long johns and tuck my socks under them. You aren't moving, so you shouldn't heat up too much. I also thin gloves, but the mosquitoes could bite through them, not too bad though.

Considering the darkness, I actually have a harder time with my bug mask during the last few minutes than my scope. Once it starts getting dark, the tight mesh is tough to see through, and forget about looking through the scope too. If it's cold enough, the bugs will die down and I can take the hood off, but if not, you have to fight the bugs and try to keep still during the last few important minutes of the day.

I didn't have time to read all of the above posts, so I may be duplicating info.

Consider a simple 1-4X LEU w/ a Heavy Duplex. I have an older VXII version. When I compare this scope side by side w/ my VXIII 1.5-5X #4 and my VXIII 2.5-8X USMC Mil-Dot on side by side 3D black bear and whitetail targets 75yds away at last shooting light, I see no problem whatsoever in making the shot w/ any of them but find the 1-4X HD at the crosshair bolder and easier to pick up against the black/dark targets.

Gary

First off, I have to say that I love Leupold scopes, own, and have happily used many over the years for target and for hunting. However, there is this to consider: Your shots are going to be between 50 and 75yds, and for that range you don't need magnification. In fact, it could put you at a distinct disadvantage for close in shooting, and/or a quickly moving target, regardless of the light conditions.
Bear in mind that rifles built for fast, close shooting of dangerous game are never scoped, for a very good reason. They are too slow on target and you have a difficult time finding your target in the magnified image, especially when the quarry is moving. All the light gathering ability of a scope is useless if you can't get it on target. You are also forced to use only one eye, which negates your depth perception. Up on a stand with a relatively less dangerous black bear, a simple receiver sight would serve you well, but I think for your situation I would choose an Aimpoint. Like the receiver sight, you keep both eyes open as you use it, making it much easier to get onto your target, especially if it is moving. It has a glowing dot that can be easily seen in low light, then adjusted for intensity as the light changes, and a polarizing filter if it's too bright and/or the wind direction forces you into a position where the sun is at a more disadvantageous angle.
If I HAD to choose a scope with magnification, I would consider only one of the very lowest power, like a VX-2 1-4X20, with a heavy duplex reticle. Set on 1X, you could get on target quickly, but not as quickly as you could with a red dot. I hunt in the North woods, and peeps or red dots do the job very well where the ranges are short, for deer, bear, and moose. If your shots are within 150yds and you can't be pinpoint accurate with an -06 with a low power sight (which I'm sure you can), higher magnification is as useless as the proverbial teats on a bull, and might lose you the bear you have traveled so far and worked so hard to hunt. Just MHO, YMMV.

Mark,

I took a black bear in the fall in Idaho over bait. I was using a .340 Weatherby, but I had a 3.5 X 10x Leupold VX-III (Duplex Reticle)on it. The bear was in dark timber and it was starting to get a little dark, I shot the bear on 6x and never had a problem, you should be fine with the scope you have. I like the VXIII's the best. The bear I shot was at around 125 yards. I had no problem picking out the reticle.

I shot a nice black bear in New Brunswick last June and I have a couple of observations. First, those are the thickest woods I have ever seen. The bear came in at last light at about 10 yards I used the 1.5 power setting on my Burris Signature 1.5X6X. I think it was about 10:10? I do know the guide heard the shot and said I had 10 minutes of legal shooting light left.
The bugs are horrible! They bit through my bug tamer suit pretty easily on the first day. I've been to Russia twice in the summer and thought their bugs were bad, but New Brunswick was the worst. I found that wearing two bug tamer suits helped out a lot. With one suit they wore out the backs of my arms, and the tops of my knees were just open sores. The worst mistake was after I killed the bear I took off my head net off. By the time the guide got there I had blood streaming down my face.
It's a great place to hunt, just be prepared. We saw moose almost every day, by the way. And, don't forget your fishing rod. I caught a 19", 6-pound smallmouth that I released.

I shot my bear over bait in Maine with my Zeiss Conquest on 3X and had no trouble in thick timber in the last 15 or so minutes of light left.

Mark, I did not take the time to read all of the posts here but I will respond to what I know about bear hunting. I have no idea what type of conditions you will be in but I know from my past bear hunting experiences that less is more when it comes to scopes. In my experiences, bear hunting over bait is generally at close ranges, usually can be measured in feet, rather than yards. I hunted with a 4X12Xwhatever and had a bear right under me. I pulled up the scope and saw nothing but black. This was in good light, just too much magnafication. I got the bear but I advise you to either buy a very low power scope or use iron sights. I baited and hunted bears for about ten years and, based on my expierences, I would not use a 3X9X40. I'd say the 1.5X5 sounds like a good choice. Also, the leupold dot is perferct for fast target aquisition and close range shooting. Also, buy the best glass you can afford, thats where glass pays for itself, in low light.

(((JUST MY 2 CENTS)))

Good luck. You might also want to call your guide and ask him what he would choose for a scope, for the given conditions. He will probably give better advise than you will find elsewhere because he knows exactly what your getting into.

Mark 6.5x55
While I stand by what I said in my above post about the heavy duplex in the Leupold scopes, IF money is no object the BEST scope for low light hunting is the Swarovski 1.5-6x42 with the circle dot reticle. It is the BEST.

Thanks for all the info but this post was originally made on 25 February 2003. seanyeager posted a reply on 04 February 2006 and restarted it. BTW I did get a bear