Hey Dungbettle,
When USO has to legislate through the bench it has nothing to do with free enterprize and everthing to do with the court mandating their will on state game managers. Nader is a very much a socialist/communist. The 9th circus court is very much in line with Nader. Hense they support the liberal elitest mentality that only the upper crust should hunt and own firearms. Until like the UK even royalty is no longer allowed to fox hunt. When only the weathiest hunt there are very few remaining to fight for hunting rights and against gun control. USO for the long run is legislating themselves out of work. Their shortminded attitude may buy a couple new homes for the owners, but at the sacrifice of all hunting and the shooting sports. The fast buck mentality does not make a successful long term business plan. Very few politician could care less about hunting and shooting. They pretend to only to gain the vote from a fraction of society. We need numbers on the side of hunting. A few blue bloods do not represent a viable politial force. That is why the R's talk conservative during elections then vote like D's in off election years.

Muskrat, again, you nailed it. I hope everyone who has drawn has a great hunt too. I also admire very much Jim Z not hunting with USO.

In the end, this will make it harder to hunt out of state anywhere, and I hunt out of AZ a lot more than in state.

Jim - I guess you never understood my post. Our views are quite similar.... I thought it was quite clear when I said

Quote:

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"To heck with AZs Game Management, to heck with THEIR residents - there's a dollar to be had, and we're going to get it." What about all of the extra tags that had to be allotted, to satisfy the Court's decision? In some Units, it doubled or almost tripled the number of hunters. USO pushed this into "money over management" and that's what is irking people.

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Which is almost identical to

Quote:

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much as 804 extra tags were issued for our state's magnificent bull elk and heavy-racked muleys in the very units that are managed for older age class animals with very conservative permit numbers. It makes me wonder why we have our state biologists set permit numbers so restrictively low if the quality of the herd can be maintained with this massive issuance of additional permits in a relatively small number of units?

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I have never drawn for anything in AZ, other than javelina, so I think I can relate, a little. Oh - I am an AZ Resident also...



Regarding Non Residents - NRs sending Taulman 1000s of dollars to support his crusades are, in my mind - a different breed of cat than the guy who has saved for years for an out of state hunt, and simply made the mistake of booking through USO. Same with a guy who has saved his pennies for years, and booked through an AZ Outfitter..



As far as "sharing in my joy" - not sure where you got that. I just said that Average Joes aren't the culprit, USO was... and wished people luck. People who bankroll Taulman probably aren't "average joes" as a rule...



Not sure why the animosity was directed at me, Mr. Rich, from where I sit, we're on the same side

Muskrat,
What do say to and about the many non-residents that responded to USO's letter soliciting funding for the assault on AZ resident hunters and our AZG&FD? How do you feel about the incendiary rhetoric Mr. Taulman used to inflame the passions of his NR clients and potential clients that stirred them to reach into their wallets to bankroll the lawsuit?

What do you say to the long-suffering AZ resident that has waited year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year ( 14 years and counting) for a permit to hunt trophy mule deer north of the Colorado River and still has not drawn? I can tell you it's hard to muster much sympathy for those NR groups that have championed USO's cause and now have further reduced, by however large or small an amount, the rank and file AZ resident applicants' chances of drawing a coveted big game hunting permit in the Grand Canyon State.

I say good luck to all who have drawn a tag to hunt in AZ in 2004, I hope you have the hunt of a lifetime and take time to savor the experience in our awesome outdoors. But I have to admit it's hard to fully share in your joy in as much as 804 extra tags were issued for our state's magnificent bull elk and heavy-racked muleys in the very units that are managed for older age class animals with very conservative permit numbers. It makes me wonder why we have our state biologists set permit numbers so restrictively low if the quality of the herd can be maintained with this massive issuance of additional permits in a relatively small number of units?

Let's hope the AZ Game Commission, AZG&FD, and the resident & NR hunters who offered input will come up with a fair and thoughtful plan to distribute our limited numbers of hunting permits.

Jim Rich
MV, AZ

Muskrat,

I agree we probably are on the same page and I wasn't slamming you, since you took it that way you have my apology.

I was specifically focusing in on your comment that the NR hunter had little to do with what happened in AZ and that our ire should only be on USO. I disagree, but do not wish to start a range war with NR hunters all over the west. I simply believe folks should know, especially AZ residents, that it was the money that Mr. Taulman received from his clients AND all the other NR applicants that received his solicitation letter and chose to respond, that funded the attack the AZ resident hunter.

I'm sure if we shared seats near a campfire we'd get along fine!

There's more to this story than USO having an alleged alturistic motive to "help NR hunters throughout the west". How else can anyone explain USO's new lawsuit vs. Nevada seeking "damages" for "lost revenues"? The domino has tipped and the line is falling down...what are we going to do when the AZ Ranchers really unify and lock out access to their leased and deeded lands unless they are "compensated" with some form of Landowner Permit to hunt elk, mule deer, and pronghorn on their depredated properties? We will have to all work together to protect our hunting heritage as it comes increasingly under attack from within and without in the days ahead.

Jim Rich
MV, AZ

In the end, USO will lose out. Sure, they are full up. So are the airlines that I fly every week, but so what? Their revenue is down.

I for one am getting a little tired of writers prostituting themselves via USO. American Hunter has an article about 25 ways to piss off an elk guide. Made me think of a great story: 25 ways to piss off your readers: No1: keep quoting USO guides.

Do you hear me BT?

Just so you all know, I have been booked with the USO for a couple of years now. I have just been building bonus points. I never received a solicitation letter to make a donation to attack the AZ resident hunter. I do not have deep pockets and second I would not have donated any money. I just want to go on an Elk hunt of a life time. I have no problems with any other hunters in other States. But in the same token, I will not pull out of the USO after my investment for my hunt. I don't plan on trying for a tag for several more years just to build up more points. I have to buy an NR license every year and it is not cheap. Like I said, my parents live in Arizona and I have not problems with Arizona residents.

Here we go again. First of all let me say that I have never been a client of USO and probably never will be one. But I can't fault what they have done. The state of Arizona is the one that was found guilty of discrimination not USO. The state of Arizona is the one that said non-resident hunters have to sit in the back of the bus. The state of Arizona didn't have to issue the extra tags. They could of had another drawing. They chose this method. So don't blame ole Georgie Boy for that.

It's funny how residents laugh when non-resident license fees are ten times or more than they pay. Then money gets tight and game departments look at license fees and say if we gave more tags to non-residents we can make a lot more money by giving them a bigger percentage of the pot. I get a good laugh out of how I make the supreme sacrifice by living out west and making lower wages. That's funny. You make lower wages because you choose too. Bring on the landowner tags in Arizona. Why should landowners let the "average joe" hunt on their land for free when those elk and mule deer tags could easily bring 10-20 grand? Let the "average joe" try to draw a tag and hunt on public land. Money talks and the "average joe" walks. That's the way I see it. Why be average when you don't have to be.

M16:

Your comment reminds me of something that went thru my head when I was a young Army guy in Alaska. I thought about getting out up there and living. But it also dawned on me that I only had to make more than the price of a sheep hunt to do the same hunting/fishing I did every year, so why not go to where the money is?

I think I made the right move. I live in AZ not for the hunting, but for the easy access to long range shooting.

But I still believe that in the end, this will backfire on USO.

Redhawk:

Just go on your hunt and enjoy it - I surely don't feel like you have put me out anything.

Pick the brains of your USO guides and fill us in on how they feel about it.

Thanks, you make my point. Here you are living in a western state doing what appears to me quite well for yourself. Why settle for being an "average joe" when you can be above average?