I was going to post this under the "Texas Mule Hunt" thread but that was getting old. I thought I might share a picture of a west Texas deer that was in fact harvested illegally this past season. I can not and will not post the locality of where the deer was killed other than it was west Texas. Poaching is a huge problem and we lose many trophy quality animals every year as well as animals that would be incredible if allowed to mature. This deer is the widest deer from main beam to main beam ever harvested according to all of the record books. The inside spread of this deer is 45 6/8" and his H4 measurement on his right side is over 6". The deer grosses 222". I hope that everyone that sees this gets pissed and does their part to try and eliminate such needless waste.


Drummond Lindsey

Simply amazing. Those are the guys that give all hunters a bad name. Thanks so much for posting that!!

Hope we can teach some of these guys a lesson.

This may be picky, but I don't think they give hunters a bad name unless we let them. Fact is, they aren't hunters.

Do car thieves give drivers a bad name? Do hijackers give pilots a bad name?

I don't own these bastards. They cheat because they can't compete.

Not hunters. Nope. Just mutant criminals likely too cowardly to even compete against other criminals in an environment where they might get caught.

kk

I hear what you're saying kk, but unfortunately deer poachers are not much different than most of us on these forums.

In the business I've been in the last 35 years I've known a lot of poachers. They wouldn't call themselves that, just like a lot of alcoholics won't accept their problem either.

Poachers see themselves as hunters. In fact most I've known thought they were great hunters. They hunted legally, and when it suited them they hunted illegally. They weren't just oilfield trash. They were ranchers, police officers, teachers, etc.

So what have I personally done about it over 35 years, not much. I've reported three cases where the situation was so blatant you couldn't let it pass. The rest I kept at arms length, never associated with them again. It cost me some personal relationships and some business relationships, but I was comfortable with that. I wasn't comfortable being around habitual poachers.

I don't want to appear holier-than-thou. Have I ever poached big game? Never. Have I ever overshot my limit of game birds? A bunch of times. Have I ever caught more than my limit of fish? Yes Sir, but not in a long time. So I fit the definition.

Poaching is a tough practice to stop in some locales. It's still considered "normal". I've known some people who almost felt it was some right of passage as you grew up. (I never could quite understand that.)

I think I developed a reputation over time, to where people knew to be careful around me. I don't believe it's my duty to save your ass. If you want to screw-around on your wife; do it, but don't expect me to lie for you when the shit hits the fan. Want to poach big game or hunt illegally, better not do it around me, because I'll let you hang. I'm not your mama.

I never saw a crook that couln't rationalize it. I used to investigate welfare fraud, and everybody I caught had a reason. I used to talk a lot about ethics. Then a used car salesman explained to me that everybody has ethics. His ethic was that whenever a chump walked onto his lot, it was his duty to take that guy's money for his own wife and children. The reason? Because he was a chump and was going to lose his money anway, likely to the next used car lot down the road, and it was morally imperative that the salesman put his own wife's and kids' interests ahead of those of the guy at the next car lot.

I have violated many rules and many laws. I even shoplifted a bottle of hair color when I was in jr. high. Shoplifting was "the thing." I felt so shitty I went and turned myself in.

People know the difference between right and wrong. It's hard-wired in us. Some try to do right; some try to rationalize; some just say, "what the hell; I deserve it."

You do the crime, you do the time. Poachers are not hunters, and I don't give a shit what they say. They are mutant violators.

kk

We have the same problem on our ranch in Missouri.
They get a case or 2 of beer and drive the roads throwing out cans as they go and shoot at whatever depending how drunk they are. We even have a group that has night vision glasses so they can drive without lights. They have been at this for years and the Game wardens have about given up on trying to catch them. They never hit the same area two nights in a row and they cover two or three counties in their search for big deer. One of these guys has 5 B&C deer.

I think that Kensco hit the nail on the head. As for the analagy about the car thieves and poachers, I just dont see it. I think that it is important that we as outdoorsmen and women realize that anyone that is harvesting animals whether legal or not will be perceived by the anti or non hunters as a "hunter". There is no question that we know the difference but thats not whats important, its trying to get those anti and non hunters to realize that. Getting back to the car analagy, most americans own a car, therefore we can all be affected by a car thief, there is a common ground there so to speak. We as hunters are getting butchered by a few greedy, lazy bastards because no matter how hard we will try to distance ourselves from those type of people we can not get far enough away. I think that this is the reason why we should all take ownership in the situation and try to put away as many of these people as we can. What do you think?

huntsonora,

BINGO!

Poaching can be controlled. Those people have to feel ostracized to the point where no one wants them around. Then they'll change for the most part. The hard cases we all read about. They can't be rehabilitated. It's the way they are, like habitual criminals. They need to be caught and penalized. Jail time, and news media coverage of who they are, what they did, where they live and where they are employed sounds about right to me.

What gives me hope is catch-and-release fishing. I would have bet every dollar I had that concept would never catch on, but it did. Many of us do it down here where laws mean nothing. You do it because you know it's the right thing to do.

I think the behavior of poachers can be changed to, but it will be a tougher sell. There is too much macho bullshit attached to a monster buck. Everyone wants to strut & brag about the big one they shot. The true story behind how they got it sometimes gets lost in the telling.

Brent,

I agree 100%. While we all "own" the wildlife so to speak I feel that it affects some more than others. That is why I feel thet is especially important for the people that have a passion for the sport of hunting to maybe make an extra effort to conserve this resource. I guarantee we as sportsmen can make a bigger impact than the "average" person that really has no interest in the outdoors.

Drummond

[Removed to its own thread -Steve]

[ 08-11-2003, 03:00: Message edited by: Steve ]

Steve I hate to say it but this common practice around Texas, not enough Game Wardens to go around but they do try.

Thats why I report anything out of the ordinary all year long. This way there might be some hunting still left when I get older and maybe I can share that with my grandchildren (not for a while I hope).

Every September new regulations and fines come out so that some of these ASSHOLES will learn something.

CD,

We've the smae problem up here in Oregon as well. It is proabably true in most states.

Of course there was also the time we came back to camp time to find some ODFW officers in our tents looking for someone who was poaching fish. They were damn lucky they didn't get shot. They then got smug about the whole affair as well. Proabably should have brought a suit against them, personaly. Still pisses me off. (Reset!! Reset!! whew..) But I digress...

But the article that I referenced was refering to Sonora, Mexico. I probably should have started another thread.

-Steve

No problem Steve, POACHING IS POACHING No matter where it is!

I wouldn't have blamed you if you had shot those guys by accident but, the state may have .

Good thread.
We have a problem with it here in the midwest as well. We don't see too much of the blatant jacklighting and such, but these dudes bend and twist the rules & regs to suit themselves.

Things like; using mom's tag, trespassing on some little old ladies farm, shooting out of their trucks, no orange so they can trespass, shooting before or after hours, shooting two and only tagging the big one, etc., etc.

These jokers go about this stuff like it's their God given right and think nothing of it, yet if somebody jacklighted a buck on ground they hunt, they'd want the dude behind bars and a full DNR investigation. Seems like it's a family thing. Usually Dad & the boys all operate the same way.

The reason trophy poaching pisses some people off,is because they're actually stupid enough to believe that they had an honest chance of killing an animal of that caliber. For these guys hunting means organizing a cyber jerk off on some hunting forum and talking about the downfalls of a 30/06 vs. a .270 In real life they spend all their time screwing around with the latest equipment rather then staying in shape,so they could actually hunt.Instead they drive around every dirt road blaming everybody else for the lack of game they shoot.

When you consider that most of the truly good trophys that are poached. Come from some trust fund assholes private zoo or national park that we all support yet can't hunt on. Poaching becomes even less of an issue and doesn't even effect hunters . Most people take the stance that poaching is stealing. If thats the case then the asshole that high fences an area with the "peoples wildlife" inside is stealing from all of us. Somebody sneaks on the zoo,and kills a trophy animal,how in the hell have they stolen from the public? The public didn't have access to they're own wildlife. The goverment does the same thing,they set aside land in the name of natioanl parks and reserves. Then they use the publics money to support artificialy large numbers of animals and won't allow you the public to hunt your wildlife.

In modern times,poaching hasn't endangered a big game species in america yet. What has endangered them is our own interstate systems, protection of predators and urban sprawl. Moose in the western states have had more set backs due to vehicle collisions,then every poacher and nonresident dipshit that mistakenly shot a moose for an elk combined. Any highway in the U.S has numerous road kill deer on it at anytime. Predators like eagles and hawks have wiped out count less mountain goats and big horn sheep. We've protected these predators for so long,that they are out of balance. Over grazing of livestock has also been contributed to loss of big horn sheep numbers.
Urban sprawl has taken away irreplacable amounts of winter habitat for wildlife,which in turn has reulted in lower numbers of animals.

The bottom line is,if you're so worried about big game. Stop driving a car and buy a house in town.

Different kind of poaching...This made the news in Pa last week...A whitetail buck at a deer farm with a super genetics is approx 5 or 6 years old..Was rreturned to owner of deer farm...His name is goliath..He was darted and a chain link fence was cut and he was removed...His picture in the paper showed him in velvet he has 76 points If I had to put a weight to the rack around 35 pounds of of antlers
Gigantically massive would describe the rack...The deer was stolen 4 yrs ago...Someone saw the deer at another deer farm and he was called Hercules...Photos were taken and the owner and other people recognized the deer...His estimated worth is $500,000...The deer farm was closed down where the deer was found because of violations for raising deer in closed in area...
The deer was also tatooed and has a microchip in his tail...
Poaching is poaching
We have even had trophy deer poached inside of Penn State Univ...Deer pens where whitetail research was being conducted...
There are hunters and
There are killers... Poachers IMO

Mike

Retreever you are right Poaching is Poaching . To show you how STUPIDsome of these people are. Awhile back up this jerk killed a Buffalo cut the head off so that he could have a trophy and left the rest. 1 year in jail and a fine . Another idiot KILLED A BALD EAGLE he also got caught 6 months jail time and a $7000 fine . He can't get a hunting licence for 5 years .

Why should we let someone break the law like that and give them the right to hunt leagally later .

Feel that they should take away all of their rights and brand them for life. If you have to be a low-life to do something like that you might as well be known as a low-life to all. That way you not only know how stupid you are we do too.