Frank, so you're also a fan of those Data-Targs from Rocky Mtn. Target Company! I bought a big supply of them while they were still available, and I still like them as well or better than anything else. I miss that product line very much.

I do have an Echols .300 Win. Mag. as well, and I've hunted with it quite a bit. It's been sort of a lucky rifle for me. In fact, I took it on that African trip where you and I were seated in the same section on the flight from Atlanta to Jo-berg. That was a fun and enjoyable voyage!

When are you headed back to the Dark Continent?

AD

allen,

Another great rifle from D'Arcey! Looks like it shoots a well as your others. I'm 100% with you in regard to his rifles, as the "Legend" in .300 Weatherby that he built for me is the most accurate and best functioning rifle I've ever held in my hands, and that includes the three Miller rifles I sold! As a matter of fact, he's now building a .300 Winchester for my wife.

kirkkelso

Allen

Isn't Mr. Miller's Marksman a rifle that he came up with for long range work on Coes (sp) deer, and then offered the rifle to the general public as a lower cost alternative to his classic rifles.

You state that you hunted with one for a few years. I am curious as to why you changed over to the Echols rifle, not that I want to start some flame war as to whose rifle is better becuase I am sure they are both great rifles that are just different. And so what specifically, in your personal opinion, and based upon your personal build, did you find different such that you decided to use Echols Rifles instead of the Miller Marksman Rifle.

Blue

If you don't mind me asking, would you mind letting us know what an Echols legend costs vs his Classics and his approximate delivery time.....DJ

Kirk, I'm just glad that your Echols rifles have worked out so very well for you. Of all the hunters and riflemen I know personally and well, you certainly have the utmost experience and skill to get the absolute most out of them.

We need to put together another hunt, I believe!

Blue, I grew to greatly disliked the oil finished, uncheckered Marksman stock, and it wasn't about shape. It didn't stand up to wet weather very well at all, and wasn't "grippy" enough to suit me. How the current product is, I can't say.

I prefer D'Arcy's scopemounting system, McMillan fiberglass stock, magazine system, bottommetal, and other details better. I like the quality and workmanship at least as much, and I like the price better. For my purposes, and I'm speaking only for myself, the "Legend" is the best all-around hunting rifle I've ever owned. Don't let the 'glass stock fool you, this is a true best-quality rifle in all respects.

I'm a hunter above all else, and I might hunt with Kirk in Sonora in January, British Columbia in May, Tanzania in September, and wet ol' Oregon come November for elk plus Texas for whitetails the same month, and all of these hunts with the same rifle. So that rifle must handle everything from desert dryness to humidity, to snow, to gullywashers, and everything in between in stride. I might end up shoving it in a saddle scabbard for rain five days running. I don't want a rifle I have to baby, and in my experience fiberglass stock work better than wood for the sort of all-around hunting I do.

AD

Allen---where and what are you going to hunt here in B.C. in May? Who are you booked with, if you don't mind my asking?

That Echols .338 is about perfect for one rifle for serious B.C. hunting, IMO, but, what would you do in the event of a scope failure, deep in the bush? This has happened to me, even with a Leupy.

If I may be so bold as to but in here, a little story is in order. While visiting with D'Arcy in his shop he relayed a story to me told to him by a professional hunter. It seems one of his clients had shown up in camp with a "Legend" in tow sans iron sights, much to the disgust of said professional. Guess what, the scope packed it in. While Mr. Echols name was being thrown around in vain the client/rifle owner went quietly to his duffel to retrieve a second scope put it on "properly" fired a shot into an unsuspecting stump to settle things and pronounced the hunt saved, all the while ignoring the PH rambling about refuseing to waste time or bullets resighting the rifle. The hunt continued, beasts were slain and when time permitted zero was found to be spot on. The PH repented.

The 416 I shot in Northern Utah was back in the shop for a little cleaning when I arrived. The owner had taken it upon himself to reposition the scope and had done a messy job of it (I could even tell). D'Arcy took it off, cleaned it up, twirrled it like a batton (actually he didn't but said it could be done if desired) and ancored it back down square to the world. I then proceded to shoot a 1/2" group with the thing bang on zero. Did I mention it was yours truly that shot the group, while my wife and Mr. Echols amused themselves at my expense in the background.

Anyway, the point to this stupid story is that things on those Legends are pretty square and packing along another scope with a torx wrench and feeler guage is akin to having a second scope set in detachable rings in the pack, panier, or dog sled. D'Arcy also builds his "Legends" with detachable scope mounts and irons, if specific criteria are met (ie. Burgess rings.......). In fact, I have a video of Allen Day shooting a grizzly at spitting distance with just such a setup chambered for the 375 H&H. In BC of all places. I also shot that particular rifle, and except for that one nagging flaw (my hands being on the wrong side), it is the nicest setup I have ever seen.

Chuck

P.S. With all my rambling about D'Arcy's stock I failed to mention that the metal work is actually my favorite part of these rifles. They make a very nice package.

Allen

As a person who has a tremendous amount of experience in hunting, and therefore using and abusing gear, perhaps you might start another post on Hunting here and tell us about some of the other gear that you like and that has stood up to the rigors that you put it through. I am not talking about everything, but maybe just a few things that come into your mind that have been of outstanding quality and worked well for you.

For example, do you use any Filson products (they claim "Might as well have the Best")? Have you used any boots that you think are above average. Any other things that stand out in your mind that have really worked well for you on your various hunting adventures.

Blue

Kutenaymtnboy, I don't have anything booked this year in B.C. for May. I sited the above as an example of what certain seasons are like for me, and what I may require out of a given rifle for a specific hunting year. The grizzly bear episode Chuck mentions was on a spring hunt with Bob Fontana, who is an outfitter I hold the the highest regard. In fact, the same .375 H&H I used in B.C. that season was used later that year in Zimbabwe as well as here in Oregon for elk. It never changed zero one time.



In my experience, it's rare for scopes to get out of whack, but it can happen. I always carry a spare in my duffle that is pre-sighted in. I found that D'Arcy's mount system is not only extremely rugged, but very precisely made. I installed a new-out-of-the-box backup scope on this particular .338, and found that with the scope's adjustment system centered, the scope was only off only ONE quarter-inch click from center at 100 yds. Some kind of precision!



To be honest, I prefer quality fixed mounts to detachables in most cases. They're just a whole lot simpler, more rugged, and there are far fewer parts (including levers) to come loose. I even have a .416 Remington that is a scope-only rifle, and I'll use it exactly that way for brown bear, cape buffalo, lion and stuff. I love the clean field of view with no shadows from open sights to muddy up the sight picture. But I will say the .375 I have with Burgess rings is about as good as a detachable system gets..........



AD

Blue, there are quite a few guys here who hunt a great deal, so this might well be a great round-table topic.

AD

Allen, you have a PM.

Chuck

Chuck, you have my response......

AD

Almost enough to turn me into a communist. That rifle and one in 300mag owned by the same guy while I'm stuck with my beat up old relics.

I would say, not only does the rifle shoot well, but so does Allen!

How do you go about buying Burgess mounts? Some time ago I tried unsuccessfully to get in contact with Tom Burgess. I am after some high quality mounts and the other ones I am considering are the Smithsons. Any opinions?
Mark

Burgess mounts are extremely hard to come by, he makes very few of them and the wait for anything he does is long. Your best bet would be to find a pair for sale by an individual, they turn up now and then. A call to Mr. Echols might give you some info?

HBH- I'm still lurking around, just have little time to spend here these days. The OD green Legends are my choice, but black and brown are okay too! They all shoot like crazy, Allen's targets are a fair representation of what any of them are capable of. They make you hate your other rifles because nothing feeds, functions, feels and shoots like one of these.

I don't have experience with Smithson's new mount at all, but guys who've examined it have made nothing but the most positive of comments about it. I've seen photos of it, and it looks great! I know that Smithson is a superb, best-quality riflemaker in his own right. At least his mount is AVAILABLE, and as I understand it, from Ted Blackburn.

I've loved Burgess detachable rings from the first time I examined a set more than twenty years ago. I would probably not have his rings on my .375 H&H today if D'Arcy didn't locate two available sets for me that were new and unused at another gunmaker's shop in Idaho. They're great mounts, and beautifully crafted. The only trouble with Tom's rings is that they're not always available, and sometimes for quite a while. About the best you could do is ask him about it. Send me a PM if you need contact information.

AD

Allen

I have never even seen a pair of Burgess Rings and mounts, as I am sure a lot of people here have not. Do you have anything you could post to show us what they look like and what makes them so special.

Blue

Burgess Rings

Chuck

Chuck

Nice of you to post that link. Gosh that is a beautiful Rifle. Looks like a reworked Enfield.

They look an awful lot like a Brownell, Talley, or Warne mount. What makes them different, and what makes them special. And although I know you can't answer this question, if they are so good (and I am sure they are) and in such demand, why doesn't Mr. Burgess supply more of them.
Why should they be so hard to get?

Blue

Chuck, for $7,295 that rifle is a bargain... I may have to go over the hill to handle it!

Someone just told me that very thing today. And gave me the "to bad your left handed" speach . I agree that its a bargain, and a look see would be worth the effort.

Chuck

Allen, would you be so kind to email me the pic? I'd like to take a look at the rig up close.

Thanks

That was me, an ornery old mtnboy! Here Chuck is kind enough to phone me and give me some much appreciated information on "Legend" stocks and so forth and I mention this wonderful rifle which I saw pictures of several months ago and I harass the poor guy about his being offside!

Seriously, that rifle was offered at more money last autumn and is a hell of a deal in terms of what it would cost to replace. I have seen and examined the work of Tom Burgess and it is unbelieveable, only Stephen Heilman's metalwork and Jim Wisner's work he did for me impress me that much. Obviously, most of us have no need for a rifle of that power and most of us cannot afford it, but, I would buy that ahead of most big name English and European stuff, of which I have examined a lot.

Chuck, you are just going to have to work two jobs, that's how I got my drilling and then you can get a full set of Echol's rifles, from 7-450! WTH, go big or go home---or bankrupt!

Verrocchio 100, check for a PM.



As Brad said, that rifle is a bargain, and it really can't be replaced, especially for that kind of money. Tom is getting older but still extremely busy, and D'Arcy's getting busier all the time, especially with the advent of the 'Legend' rifle. Not to mention, that particular stock blank is in the $2,000 catagory on today's market all by itself! A .416 in an Echols rifle goes together like chili and cornbread.



I own superb 'Legend' in .416 Remington that I bought at a very favorable price from a very good, long-time friend and mentor of mine who can physically no longer hunt, or else I'd buy that beauty myself. This man put me on to the talents of D'Arcy to begin with. I remember him coming home from an SCI show a number of years ago and telling me, "This young Echols is a gunmaker who's work you really need to see!"



I've examined work from all of the top British riflemakers at SCI over the years, as well as in private collections. There's no question that the top American bolt action rifle builders will hammer the work (bolt action) of the best of the British makers into the ground. There is no comparison whatsoever between the two, and nowdays the British bolt action stuff is even MORE expensive in many cases. The British still shine best at building double rifles and side-by-side shotguns. In these areas, they have no peer.



But the American guys who make complete, best-quality bolt-rifles designed for actual, real-world hunting (not collecting) like D'Arcy, Gene Simillion, Dave Miller and Curt Crum, etc., are living almost on a different planet from any other riflemakers in the world, and these guys are turning out the best bolt action custom rifles ever created right now. The U.S. is still a nation of riflemen, and it shows...........



AD