I'm looking for a rifle to hunt deer in a 15 acre parcel in a subdivision. Something that is as quiet and safe as possible under the circumstances. a 75 yd shot would be about the farthest. Sometimes the distances are too long for a bow. Any opinions? Thanks
Well, I'm not sure there's such a thing as a 'quiet' firarm or muzzleloader. You have obviously checked to make sure that it is legal to discharge a firearm near or in this subdivision, but I'd go a little different route:
I'd use a 44 magnum, 7" barrel, 300 grain Hornady XTP or Nosler bullet over 18-19 grains of H110.
You can carry it in concealed and you'd be less noticeable than if you were to carry a long rifle.
I know you said rifle but I'd get a 20ga slug gun. They're easy(ier) to justify to the non hunter folks as "safe", they're accurate, they're effective and the noise factor although louder than some other options is "softer/more muffled" than most. Hunt/shoot from an elevated position if possible this also helps muffle the report, longer barrel is better too.
Biggest problem(s) I have is/are second shots draw too much attention (most folks can't direction find a single report or were too busy watching TV to notice) and it's often difficult to get the deer to the truck/car without folks going into a panic at the sight of a person with a gun and a dead critter. I try to go in before folks get home from work (or out of school) and leave after dark (or retrieve the critter after dark). I also shoot to drop the deer in it's tracks without it going into the bellow/bawl mode. It's real trouble to walk into someone's yard and dispatch a down(ed) deer with a crowd of kids, wives and other grumpy observers "helping".
Also might want to let the local police know what you're about. I've twice been "hunted down" by well meaning police officers intent upon capturing a "sniper/whatever", they were armed and quite nervous and then so was I upon seeing them coming, make a plan before this happens.
Posts: 226 | Location: Dorchester County, South Carolina U.S.A. | Registered: 15 December 2003
A crossbow won't shoot any farther, faster or more accurately than a good compound.
Tell that to my mother in law. She grew up in Missouri and her whole family hunted. She still insists to this day that her daddy would shoot deer at 400 yards with a crossbow.
I laughed so hard that she got pissed. I told her that I've never met someone so full of shit. Then I asked her to show me how far she thought 400 yards was out on the street in our neighborhood by pointing to a house. After she picked one, I ranged it with my Leica...it was about 185 yards away.
Of course I had to rub it in that crossbows back when she was a kid (if they even existed ), were much slower than those built today.
Sorry for getting off topic but you sparked a funny story that I remembered.
I will say this though, here in Ohio it is legal to hunt with crossbows during the regular season. One guy tells me that he'll shoot his at a deer up to 80 yards away. I personally do not have any experience but it would seem to me that those little bolts would have a bit of trouble with penetration at that distance.
A crossbow won't shoot any farther, faster or more accurately than a good compound.
Well, I may disagree specifically to the 'faster' part. My fastest bow shot 290fps. My crossbow will shoot 340fps. And I'm not sure I know anyone that has a bow that will shoot quite that fast.
kbobb: I have to disagree with most of the suggestions thus far. Slow, heavy bullets can ricochet and bounce a long, long way, as can shotgun slugs. On the other hand, something like a .223 won't go far through brush (which is what I am supposing your 15 acres is largely covered with, or else there wouldn't be much deer hunting on it.) At 75 yards and under, you can place your shots with something like a .223 with precision, and it has plenty of power for neck or broadside heart-lung shots. A .223 will be quieter than the big bores.
A 12 gauge with #1 or maybe #4 buck would be safer, but your effective range is more limited.
Posts: 13274 | Location: Henly, TX, USA | Registered: 04 April 2001
A Hamilton brl. and shotgun scope on a shotgun is an inexpensive alternative. Lower velocity and less danger to the neighbors while having ample knockdown power for the ranges you're talking. So equipped I've taken good sized deer at 125 yrd.s with an 870 I bought used. I've even had the trigger lightened.
...And with interchangable barrels you'd have other hunting options- geese, ducks, quail, phesants, grouse, squirrel, rabbits etc.
Posts: 621 | Location: Commonwealth of Virginia | Registered: 06 September 2003
Well, I may disagree specifically to the 'faster' part. My fastest bow shot 290fps. My crossbow will shoot 340fps. And I'm not sure I know anyone that has a bow that will shoot quite that fast.
From the respective websites:
BowTech Extreme VFT IBO 325-333fps
BowTech Dually IBO 328-336 fps
Matthews Switchback IBO 318 fps
Mattthews LX IBO 317 fps
Granted, these are IBO ratings, but a lot of people shoot more than 70 pounds, so those speeds are not unrealistic.
Posts: 1499 | Location: NE Okla | Registered: 22 May 2002
I'm like a moth around a candle with this one. It seems like a screwy circumstance to me, perhaps because everywhere I've lived shooting in close proximity to homes is a no-no. Maybe I misunderstand...
Anyway, I think the heavy slow bullet is a mistake and so is the fast small one IMO. One of the earlier posts said something about a muzzle loader with round balls and that would be my choice, probably .45 cal. Only thoughts that keep recurring to me are people in the background you can't see, and as mentioned, deer winding up in somebody's back yard. Likelyhood of that is greater with a bow IMO. The round ball will expand with a solid hit, and assuming dead soft lead, may not even exit on a solid hit. 75 yds is too long a shot for buckshot, and slugs are too much like rifles in this circumstance to me. My big issue here is that I would NOT be comfortable doing this with any gun, at least not the way I visualize it. Maybe a more complete description of the terrain and surrounding environs?
Quote: One guy tells me that he'll shoot his at a deer up to 80 yards away. I personally do not have any experience but it would seem to me that those little bolts would have a bit of trouble with penetration at that distance.
He either can't even remotely judge distance or he is full of BS........crossbows are loud and sound travels much faster than the fastest bolt/arrow.......at 80 yards, a deer could be completely gone before the bolt arrived!
Seriously, most people don't have a clue about the reality of hunting with crossbows! I wouldn't shoot at a deer over 30 yards with mine and it is a top quality bow (Excalibur)..... even at 300 fps, a deer more than 30 yards away can react to the sound of the shot and move enough to either completely avoid the arrow or turn a well aimed shot into a bad hit!
I can shoot targets at 50 yards all day long, but targets don't react to the sound of the shot and, if I hit a target poorly, it doesn't result in a wounded and possibly lost animal.
Posts: 1499 | Location: NE Okla | Registered: 22 May 2002
I would go with the scoped shotgun. AND SHOOT FROM A TREE STAND. Being 10-15' off the ground is certainly gonna restrict the carry of the projectile. When I lived in Memphis there was a park that was over run with deer so they let folks hunt there. The stipulation was shotguns and tree stands.
Posts: 2037 | Location: frametown west virginia usa | Registered: 14 October 2001
Just my two cents, but the small caliber rifle works well, we use a 6x45 to take out deer on culls in the subdivisons here, but we are required to be 15ft off the ground,there is a group of hunters in NoVa, that hire out and remove deer in home areas,but they are bow shooters only, one warden I shoot with uses a supressed 6mm with the 95 grain slug.
Posts: 1529 | Location: Tidewater,Virginia | Registered: 12 August 2002
Quote: kbobb: I have to disagree with most of the suggestions thus far. Slow, heavy bullets can ricochet and bounce a long, long way, as can shotgun slugs. On the other hand, something like a .223 won't go far through brush (which is what I am supposing your 15 acres is largely covered with, or else there wouldn't be much deer hunting on it.) At 75 yards and under, you can place your shots with something like a .223 with precision, and it has plenty of power for neck or broadside heart-lung shots. A .223 will be quieter than the big bores.
A 12 gauge with #1 or maybe #4 buck would be safer, but your effective range is more limited.
Once again I find myself in agreement with Stonecreek. Slugs and slow hard cast are the worst for ricochets.
No need for a new rifle just get a can of IMR SR4759 and look on the IMR website for your calibre or alternatively and slightly safer from a reloading safety point of view buy a can of H4895 and look on the Hodgden website for youth loads in your calibre.
Best bullets to use are quite soft such as single shot pistol. I have used an 85gr sierra HP under 25gr SR4759 for 2,500fps in my 6.5x55 to shoot roe in a 10acre garden. Very good results and fine out to 150yards. One shot of that is not going to disturb anyone. Follow up shots are more disturbing as people are alerted and waiting for it.
A 223 would also work very well indeed
Posts: 2258 | Location: Bristol, England | Registered: 24 April 2001
CZ Model 527 bolt action in 7.62X39 with a good 4 , 1.5 X 5, 1.75 X 6 or 2.5 X 8 power(Leupold)scope. Hunt from a tree stand and take head and neck shots so the deer drop on the spot. At 75 yards or less this shot shouldn't be difficult with good equipment and a steady rest. Most people don't like head and neck shots, but you don't want these deer running into someone's back yard before dieing. This is about as quiet a centerfire caliber as you are likely to find other than a 22 Hornet and the CZ is a moderately price accurate carbine. Also, it is very inexpensive to shoot.
Perry
Posts: 1144 | Location: Green Country Oklahoma | Registered: 16 December 2003
I'm with Dan unless you can know where people and houses are all the time or unless you can shoot from an elevated stand. If you can always know what's behind your target I gotta go with Stonecreek but I would use a 6 mm PPC with a good 85 gr bullet (not for varmits)at 2500-2600 fps. Or the 6.5 Grendel with 110 gr at 2500-2600 fps.
Posts: 915 | Location: Breckenridge, TX, USA | Registered: 24 November 2001
Thanks for the tips guys Yes, safety is the first priority. That's why I've only bowhunted this place so far. It is a steep valley with creekbottom and it has about 150 to 200' from the bottoms to the ridgetops. All houses are along the ridges so I'm shooting down into the creekbottom at all times. I also feel a little leary about using a firearm but the owner and local police and game officers are OK with it. I'm thinking about a scoped 44 mag with 240 r hollow points and slam dunk head and neck - single shots only. Thanks again.
My neighbor hires a game control person to harvest deer that eat his crops, and the weapon of choice with these guys around here is a 40 S&W carbine. The one in question uses a Ruger P4 with a 2.5X scope and drops 'em all with one shot. It was so effective I now have that Ruger, a Baretta Storm, and a Hi Point ...all carbines and all 40 S&W.
I'm 150 yards away, and the rounds are just pops that hardly attract attention. In the 16 inch carbine bbls, the 40 S&W has the same velocity and energy as a 10MM auto with a 5 inch bbl, so there is no question about power for deer in close.
Posts: 1111 | Location: Afton, VA | Registered: 31 May 2003
One thing you do not want is a deer running wounded in someones backyard. You are asking for that with a light .223 or even a 243. I opt for the 20 gauge with the Winchester Supreme sabot slugs. With my NEF ultra slug and leupold 1X6 I can shoot 1 1/2 groups at 100. That bullet will drop a deer very quickly through the lungs or with the accuracy you can neck shoot close shots. If you look at most states that have high residential areas they restrict the weapon to shotguns. If it is legal to hunt there don't worry about the sound. If it isn't you shouldn't be looking for a weapon anyway.
I would have to find a different place to hunt. No way I could relax hunting with any weapon in your circumstance. I hunt to get away from crowds, subdivisions, traffic. I couldn't enjoy what you describe. I wouldn't feel safe and I wouldn't feel people around me would be safe.
If 15 acres of "wilderness" is near a subdivision, every kid in that subdivision plays in that acreage unless it is surrounded by a 20' wall. I don't remember "No Trespass" signs meaning much to the kids in the subdivisions I grew up in. We would have our "forts", "club houses" and "hide-outs" all over that little piece of paradise.
For me, just too much chance for something to go bad. (I can see you chasing a wounded deer down the street of the subdivision trying to finish him off. That will play well on the nightly news.)
"Subdivision deer hunting", my worst nightmare. I'm not surprised it's come to that with so many people wanting to build their house on the edge of civilization, so they can enjoy nature... right before it disappears... as the next guy builds his house.
Posts: 13922 | Location: Texas | Registered: 10 May 2002
I have a friend, slightly on the wealthy side, who owns and intensly manages 2,000 acres of prime deer land in middle Georgia. No one gets to hunt it except him and his immediate family. Therefore, it is important to shoot every single doe he sees from his stand in order remove enough to keep the population in check.
The problem is he does not want to screw up his chances at a whopper buck by shooting a doe during prime hunting times. Therefore, he has started taking two rifles to the stand every day -- one, his regular deer rifle; and the other, a .17 Hornady.
He has a video of himself shooting a doe behind the ear in a food plot and dropping her in her tracks while standing between two big (but not big enough) bucks, and the bucks didn't even flinch! His .17 is very, very quiet. In the last two years, he has killed something on the order of 40 does in this manner (which is not really enough, considering the property).
Now don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating the .17 Hornady as a deer rifle. In fact, it is not legal in most states. But it is quiet; the bullets very frangible, and it WILL kill a deer if placed in EXACTLY the right spot.
For the situation you describe I agree with the idea of going with a light/fragile bullet in say .243 or 6mm Rem cuz they won't exit and are deadly as sin at the ranges you're talking about. Very accurate so precision shots will be possible if you're a disciplined hunter. Little or no concern with overpenetration and the bullet sailing a 1/4 mile down the road and hitting a house or barn.
I love fat, heavy bullets but they penetrate thru and thru and just keep right on going, so would not be the best choice for your needs in this case.
Posts: 863 | Location: Mtns of the Desert Southwest, USA | Registered: 26 February 2004
What really stinks...is that with all the development occuring in the west with subdivisions and ranchettets, this may be the only way a guy can hunt in the future.
I just hope I'm long gone before all the wild places are gone and paved over...
I guess (we) suburban hunters look at it a bit differently here. There are little pockets of woods in the burbs and sometimes near inner city that have GIANT bucks, Boone and Crockett giants. We hunt these giants and the others too as deer hunting, not as a way to get out to the wilderness. I can drive a few mile in the direction away from town and have areas that are square miles to many sqare miles to hunt also... I look at it as having a choice few have, I can wander about in the "big" woods or go hunt a little patch that's infested with does, bucks and possibly get a Boone'r. Many home owners PAY money to have archery and other clandestine shooters come in and get rid of the deer.
Posts: 226 | Location: Dorchester County, South Carolina U.S.A. | Registered: 15 December 2003
I've hunted on many occassions in an area just as you described (Houses w/ plots of woods and too over populated w/ deer). My weapon of choice would have to be a 30-30 w/ some 150-170 grners. If you hunt up in a tree and only shoot short distances, the danger is really low if you ethically do your part.
If you are looking for a quiet combo, I would suggest a In-line MLer w/ 60 grn of pyrodex pushing a saboted 180-200 grain HP pistol bullet. The sound and recoil are really low on that combo and it is effective on deer as well. If you want ease of loading, you can buy the 30 grain pyro. pellets.
Good Luck!
Reloader
Posts: 4146 | Location: North Louisiana | Registered: 18 February 2004
kbobb: I would use a Marlin 357 mag carbine with a handload of a 200gr. hard cast bullet using a small charge of powder. The hard cast bullet will work great from almost any angle and be pretty quiet too. Figure on a load of 6-8 gr. of Unique with any primer, I know this sounds too slow but it works! A hard cast bullet is hard to stop. Good Luck, Swede96.
I use a Ruger #1 rifle in 6mm Remington and 100 grain Nosler Partitions (I could use a "softer" bullet, but the Federal Premium Partition factory loads shoot 1 hole groups in this rifle) to hunt an 80 acre property across the street from my house.
Since there are houses on all sides of the property, I only hunt from elevated stands and never take shots over 100 yards to insure that the bullets will end up in the ground.
I have a stand just 300 yards from my front door. Several times I have come home at dark after shooting a deer and had my wife ask me if I had seen anything. The 6mm is quiet enough that she didn't hear the shot just 300 yards away.
Posts: 692 | Location: South Carolina Lowcountry | Registered: 27 February 2001
Here in Strathcona county we have the highest whitetail density in Canada around urban Edmonton. Hunting is often on tiny parcels of land. The most popular way of hunting is from tree stands with muzzle loader, shotgun loaded with slugs or buckshot and bow. In all the years there have been no published acounts of stray balls/slugs/pellets/arrows in this very densly populated area. The key safety seems to be shooting down into the ground at relative short ranges. A rifle shooting a soft bullet like so many others suggested such as a carbine shooting pistol ammo might be the ticket for you. Shotgun/bow/muzzle loader is mandated to us by law.
Posts: 101 | Location: Alberta ,Canada | Registered: 17 June 2004
Quote: I've hunted on many occassions in an area just as you described (Houses w/ plots of woods and too over populated w/ deer). My weapon of choice would have to be a 30-30 w/ some 150-170 grners. If you hunt up in a tree and only shoot short distances, the danger is really low if you ethically do your part.
If you are looking for a quiet combo, I would suggest a In-line MLer w/ 60 grn of pyrodex pushing a saboted 180-200 grain HP pistol bullet. The sound and recoil are really low on that combo and it is effective on deer as well. If you want ease of loading, you can buy the 30 grain pyro. pellets.
Good Luck!
Reloader
I think this reduced load ML idea is about the best advice I've seen.
I strongly agree that a slow, heavy bullet is a severe richochet hazard, BUT, if one faces the real facts, in such a confined area, ANY bullet fired horizontally is a risk.
One would be taking a grave risk to ASSume any bullet will unfailingly go to pieces, every time. Even to ASSume every shot will land on game. One can certainly do their best, but twigs happen, animal movement happens, et cetera . . . I don't know about you, but I'd like to stay out of the papers, and jail.
The obvious answer is to shoot almost straight down with whatever you would choose. So, treestands make sense.
Once in the tree, the overpenetration/richochet hazard is negated or minimized and we are then left with the noise problem.
15 acres is not a lot of area, and there are not great distances between neighbors and almost anything might alarm the locals. While maintaining a low report with maximum effectiveness, I would think that a light-loaded muzzleloader would be about as quiet as you can get without a suppressor or archery gear.
The downside of archery gear is that the normal 50-100 yard dash done by a deer with a shaft through the boiler room might put them on the neighbor's front yard. That's a dead giveaway, it is here, anyway.
Posts: 588 | Location: Maryland | Registered: 08 April 2003
I have a Ruger 77/44 (44 mag) that I use in similar circumstances. Last year I used it to take 2 deer within 300 yards of my house. I hand loaded remington 240 gr jhp's. My loads were on the light side. The bullets passed all the way through both deer. I have some 200 gr loads I am going to try this year.
With today's urban sprawl, there are more and more productive small parcels of land to hunt on. There is no reason not to take advantage of these situations. It can be done safely. It's really nice to be able to walk out the back door and be hunting in 10 minutes.
Posts: 105 | Location: Gulfport MS | Registered: 04 July 2002
They make a barrel for Ruger 10/22 rifles that holds an ordinary arrow, with the nock removed (the hollow shaft of the arrow slides over a small tube leading the the rifles chamber...the arrow is held in place inside a larger tube by the fletching of the arrow). A 22 caliber (rimfire) blank is loaded in the chamber and it propels the arrow to 435 fps. Good for deer out to 75 yards. It's silent too.
), were much slower than those built today. 
