HPShooter,
Might I get a little info about you. How old are you? Military? Where from? Just trying to grasp where your view of things come from. Been watching you since the "retard" comment.

I really didnt want to get in this,but I am as qualified to comment as any of you.I went into the Marines at 18 years in 1962.It was a transitional period.We drew m-14,s at Parris Island and I quallified expert w/3 misses due to some dumb ass kid issues with windage.We gave them up at Camp Lejune and drew M-1,s.Eventually got m-14,s again and later AR-15,s I qualified expert with all these weapons.OK how did they function the early ar,s were a POS,but they quickly improved,I have used all these weapons and non were perfect and never will be,a lot of people jump on the AK band wagon because due to all its slop and a big killing round it functions and kills,but I would exchange shots with any one at 300yds.I have owned an AR-10 no magic there handles clumsy and fires the 7.62 nato round,big deal.I own a black rifle made by Rock River Arms and its as good as anything I ever fired with the limitations of the .223 which I think is a great varmint cartridge which includes humans under the right conditions.w/regards

quote:

Originally posted by Jason Doss:
HPShooter,
Might I get a little info about you. How old are you? Military? Where from? Just trying to grasp where your view of things come from. Been watching you since the "retard" comment.

No. I don't make my private life public to people who have no need to know.

But do I feel special now that I know you have been "watching" me.

I don't blame you. That fits!

quote:

They refer to guys like you as "Elmer Fudds" over at AR15.com. Which, BTW, has far more members than just about ANY gun site on the net.

HP Shooter,

How did I know you would reply in a haughty, condescending tone? You seem to have a perpetual chip on your shoulder? I'd ask why but I don't give a rat's ass.

Th-th-th-that’s all folks!

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Sorry Gents, do not tar and feather the messanger.
When we grew up as kids we wanted a Winchester, kids now want AR 15,s.
For the mainstream public most all would prefer an AR 15.
Times change, styles, conditions, needs, and desires change.

Most of the public does not hunt deer, they do not dream of hunting deer, they dream of hunting terrorists.
Most of the public does not ride horses.
You might be suprised how many pickups have an AR 15 in the cab.[You just cannot hang a gun in the back window most places anymore].

Smith and Wesson "ain't comming out with no thuty-thuty."

I am not saying I like it, just that it appears to be so.

Don't worry, no tar and feathers here. The M4/203 combo was about the best work outfit I ever had (except maybe the para minimi, or the radio, to call in arty or tac air!). But since you cannot have one in OZ, my long time favourite pig gun has been the '94, in either standard carbine or trapper format. It will surely be a shame if it does fade away, as I said before, hopefully someone will pick up the manufacture.
Otherwise, I'll just have to grab another one to keep as a spare, in case anything happens to mine, even though they never seem to break.
There's a thought! Does anyone have a list of spares? Or ever had problems with parts breakage?
If so, please share your thoughts on what to get as a reasonable list of spares.

Cheers, Dave.

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
HP Shooter,

How did I know you would reply in a haughty, condescending tone?

Why, to match yours, of course.

quote:

Originally posted by HP Shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by Jason Doss:
HPShooter,
Might I get a little info about you. How old are you? Military? Where from? Just trying to grasp where your view of things come from. Been watching you since the "retard" comment.

No. I don't make my private life public to people who have no need to know.

But do I feel special now that I know you have been "watching" me.

Hey HP, looks like you have a fan club? Or maybe a stalker.


Cheers, Dave.

I know a Vnam vet that SWEARS the m16 is the finest jungle fighting weapon available. It got a lot of bad press off the bat, mainly due to rusty gas tubes and no lube.

The AR has DOMINATED highpower service rifle competition over the M1A. More accurate, reliable and much simpler. Talk to any M1A shooter, they carry enough spare parts to build a complete gun. The M1A/M14 is not as good as the AR.


I dont know if you can compare the M94 to the AR though. The M94 is a POS in my opinion. The AR is way out of its class.

I cant belive how many "sportsman" distance themselves from "assault rifles". You people are ignorant. There are no assault rifles, only rifles.

Mousegun,
Not really ignorance,,,,,,just opinionated. Much the same as you consider the 94 a POS.

I personally don't intentionally distance myself from an AR, they're just not "me". Every assault type rifle I've ever shot was fun to shoot, but I've never wanted to take one in the woods.

And you are right, the AR and the 94 are in two differant classes.

At the range, most of the youger guys have an AR or SKS.

I haven't seen a lever gun there in 2 years.

So I guess you could say the brass throwers are the new thing.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:

quote:

To me, the passing of the 94 is a sad day.

I am 100% with you!, eh?

Congrats on the moose.. nice going for a 12 yr old!

cheers
seafire

Same here: nice picture! Lucky little man I see there.

It is a sad occasion, however, this passing of Winchester. For me, the loss of the 70 is bigger news though. Just my $0.02

The sad reality is there ain't an heir to the Model 94. There are better lever actions on the market, but no gun produced in the modern era has the legacy of the Model 94, NONE!

quote:

Originally posted by Lowrider 49:
My youngest son says his friends are too lazy to hunt, but they will eat all his deer jerky if they get the chance!! I think we need to keep our kids hunting so it's not lost. The bunny huggers and the liberals will take it away from us if we let them whether you shoot an AK or a Win 94!!

My "young" son of 35 killed his largest deer this year-and it was great watching and hearing his physiological response as the buck walked from about 275 yds in to about 100 and turned broadside. And, yes, when his job permits he shoots his own raw material for jerky. If not, I shoot it for him.

quote:

Originally posted by gophershooter:
Larrys;I think you are a little misinformed about the AR they were prone to jam when origially introduced but now if properly cared for are reliable arms.The reason they are being replaced in some military units is the lack of stopping power inherent with the .223 round.They are now being upgraded to the 6.8SPC which as I understand it about the equivelent of a .270.You mention the AR10 and it is essentially a larger ar15 reciever firing the 7.62nato round.w/regards

the 6.8SPC EQUAL to a 270win?

Uhhhh... is bore diameter mabey....

In power? Not a chance. it is a SHORTENED
and necked down 30remington.

powerwise think of it as being nearly equivelent to a 250Savage and that only because it's loaded to higher pressure in a more modern arm.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom1911:
The sad reality is that there ain't an heir to the Model 94. There are better lever actions on the market, but no gun produced in the modern era has the legacy of the Model 94, NONE!

Ok, so we should keep a buggy whip manufacturer open for buisness even after the automobile has replaced the horse?

you know, I doubt that Matchlock owners where whining about the newfangled flintlock...
There was SOME whining when the percussion cap
supplanted the flint, but by and large it was eagerly adopted.
then came cartridge arms.

Oh I get it the Winchester '94 is the product of a LEGACY... Gimme a break. The "gun that won the west" was mostly ad hype of the time and about as true as the idea that people would fast draw in the street...
I remember seeing Errol Flynn loading CARTRIDGES
into his pre-civil war revolver in one movie....

Legacy? the gun that won the west was the trapdoor springfield.

And the '94 was very nearly the end result of an evoloutionary process and had essentially no part in any "winning of the west".

AND FWIW the movie gun of Hollywood fame
was REALLY the winchester 1892, not the 1894
Because the hollywood prop people couldn't make the cheaper '94's reliably cycle the 38caliber blanks used on most movie sets.

If I were going out today to buy a 30-30 lever rifle (And dammit I think I will) I'd buy a marlin anyway, mabey the turn of the century marlins were jam prone but my experience with the 336 type action has been one of utter satisfaction, my 1972 production 1895 effortlessly cycles FIRED CASES from the magazine tube into the chamber and out as fast as I can work the lever.

TRY THAT with your winchester!

I MIGHT buy a 30-30 trapper just to have one, if the speculators haven't driven the prices into the clouds, but I'm not going to cry into my beer if I don't get one.

Let's all get a grip, winchester quality has been for shit for a long time and sales apparrently don't justify keeping the plant open.

I ponder FN stopping production of the M70, but other rifles have been outselling the M70 for a long time....


AllanD

Alan:Actually I read that somewhere without actually looking up the ballistics.I just compared the three cartridges on Remingtons web site and you are correct,but it appears to shoot a little flatter and have more punch than the 250,makes for some interesting reading.w/regards

I doubt anyone will really read a lot of this but oh well. I love lever guns. I love bolt guns, and semi autos, and pumps, and etc... Actually I love them all. I have a few levers, 2 94 Winchesters (30-30 and 32 spec) and a couple of Marlins one being a 1895 Cowboy 45-70 and a Browning BLR in 308. I'm going to get an AR15 soon. I don't know why everyone gets so steamed on something so personal. I think an AR will go as well in my pickup as the old 94 or my old M44 Mosin Nagant (bayonets are good for the coup de grace)

I do think that the AR is more popular with people my age because of Television and Movies though. When I was little I watched Platoon and saw the evil black rifle killing commies and thought it was great. Now I enjoy all firearms because I think they are intresting in their own regard. Just wish they were cheaper or I was richer

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
I understand where you are coming from, but I don't entirely agree. First, as someone else said, look more toward SKS or AK. Secondly, the AR15 (or M16) was dieing as a millitary rifle the minute they introduced it. Not since the M1 Carbine has the millitary been looking harder to replace/rework any given rifle. The friends I have in Iraq have all had their M16s replaced with AR-10equivalents or back to the M14. It seems the M16 doesn't hold up under ANY theater of engagement, unless a rifle range is a theater of engagement. Mine didn't in Nam, and they are no different today. I don't own a Ronco Jam-o-matic and I never will again.

The civilian world is just a little behind, as is often the case. The regular officers are getting the AR, while the TAC are getting MP5, AR10 and M1A.

Just my opinion. We will see in 50 years if the AR catches up to the 94.

Most soldier including those in Iraq still have the M16/M4.
You are correct though in they are a jam-o-matic piece of crap.

Well in my mind the "old saddle rifle" (M-94) was already dethroned by the turnbolt a few decades ago, and it doesnt appear to be going anywhere.

Im not sure, but maybe this AR thing is related to geography, because turnbolts are without rival at the ranges that I frequent. I also believe that there are still as many kids around who have a keen intrest in hunting as there are screwballs who just like making lead fly for a rush. Although I am seeing more and more of them around as well. But not all young people subscribe to spray and pray black tac rifles.

Comparing the Model 94 to the AR class of Assault weapons is like comparing apples to carrots, it just doesn't work. Each was designed for a particular function, purpose, and time period.

The model 94 is a classic rifle, but with Marlin, Browning, and other lever guns available, as well as the winchester copies, the lever action will be around for a long time.

The AR type weapon is a class by itself. These weapons were not designed as sporting arms, per se. They have been adapted to some sporting applications, based on their reliability, accuracy, and low recoil.

The 94 was never in the accuracy class of the AR, but it was designed nearly 60 to 70 years prior to the AR. However, it is hard to argue with the popularity of the old lever action, a reliable weapon in it's own class.

The 94 was a good solid rifle, and it is a shame to see it go away.

I read some place that Browning is going to start making Winchester's in Japan. I have a friend with a 92 and an 86 and they are nice rifles.