From the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, (which is obviously an ultra radical leftist organization )

Study links game meat to lead exposure
by Bugle Staff

People who eat game killed with lead bullets may have slightly higher lead levels than those who don’t, concludes a Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) study released in November.

North Dakota Department of Health officials requested the study last spring after x-rays showed varying degrees of lead particles in ground venison donated to food banks in North Dakota and Minnesota, forcing officials in those states to yank the burger from the shelves.

The study surveyed 738 North Dakota residents. Of those, 80 percent consumed wild game shot with lead, including deer and birds.

Researchers measured blood lead levels in micrograms per deciliter (dl). Average lead levels of those in the study were 1.17 micrograms/dl. Participants who consumed wild game averaged .30 micrograms/dl more lead in their blood than those who did not. The study also showed those who ate game within a month of the study had significantly higher lead blood levels than those who had not consumed it within a month.

While participant lead levels ranged from non‑detectable to 9.82 micrograms/dl, all were well below the 25 micrograms/dl “level of intervention” for adults. In fact, average participant lead levels of 1.17 micrograms/ dl were below the average American’s lead level, which is 1.60.

Should the average hunter and game meat consumer be worried about lead poisoning? No, says Dr. Stephen Pickard of the North Dakota Department of Public Health. But there is a statistically significant association of lead blood levels between those who consume game shot with lead and those who do not.

“The difference between the consumers and non‑consumers on average is small,” says Dr. Pickard. “For the typical adult consumer it would not be a major concern. But for the heavy consumer, pregnant women and children under 6, it is a concern.”

Dr. Pickard couldn’t define a “heavy consumer,” but for children 6 and under, and pregnant women, all lead exposure should be avoided, he says.

Lead exposure in young children can cause learning disabilities, stunted growth, kidney damage and ADD. Pregnant women also should avoid lead exposure as it can cause low birth-weight, premature birth and miscarriages.

Some state health and wildlife officials in the Midwest are now issuing recommendations to hunters, consumers and meat processors as to how best to avoid lead exposure from game meat.

Researchers found heavy-jacketed bullets fragmented the least, and Minnesota DNR is now recommending hunters use high-weight-retention bullets or non-lead alternatives, such as copper. Federal Premium has for years loaded Barnes all-copper bullets as its top-shelf loads, and most ammunition manufacturers now offer lead-free rounds in a variety of calibers.

Food banks that rely on hunter donated venison, especially in the Midwest, are working to adjust to the new findings. In North Dakota, food bank officials decided only to accept bow-killed deer for their pantries. “We’re asking bowhunters to spend a little more time in the tree stand,” says Ann Pollert, executive director of the North Dakota Community Action Partnership and statewide coordinator for the Sportsmen Against Hunger Program. For food banks, hamburger is the meat cut of choice, as it the most versatile for their consumers. But it also can contain the most lead, which is why Minnesota food banks are accepting only whole cuts of meat this fall.

In the end, Dr. Pickard says, it’s a matter of individual choice. “Hunters have been very reasonable,” he says. “They’ve asked that we let them know the results when we know them. Now, you have the information you need and you can make your own personal decision.”

What is the exact date the radiograph was made? What kind of bullet was that in the radiograph? And what study was that radiograph affixed to?

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Researchers measured blood lead levels in micrograms per deciliter (dl). Average lead levels of those in the study were 1.17 micrograms/dl. Participants who consumed wild game averaged .30 micrograms/dl more lead in their blood than those who did not. The study also showed those who ate game within a month of the study had significantly higher lead blood levels than those who had not consumed it within a month.

While participant lead levels ranged from non‑detectable to 9.82 micrograms/dl, all were well below the 25 micrograms/dl “level of intervention” for adults. In fact, average participant lead levels of 1.17 micrograms/ dl were below the average American’s lead level, which is 1.60.

Should the average hunter and game meat consumer be worried about lead poisoning? No, says Dr. Stephen Pickard of the North Dakota Department of Public Health.

Well, hmmm sure seems to indicate we all need to get rid of our lead ammunition, unless of course one actually bothers to read it.

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what study was that radiograph affixed to?

Why do you want to know ? Isn't actually reading a study on this subject matter beneath your dignity ?

Start reading,

Bullet Fragments in Deer Remains: Implications for Lead Exposure in Avian Scavengers

Bullet Fragmentation Study: Supplementary Data

And more to keep you busy,

Exposure of California Condors to Lead From Spent Ammunition

Exposure of California Condors to Lead From Spent Ammunition

Experimental Lead Poisoning in Turkey Vultures

Carcasses of Shot Richardson's Ground Squirrels May Pose Lead Hazards to Scavenging Hawks

Lead Sources in Human Diet in Greenland

Lead and Wildlife: A Bibliography of Selected Citations

A Review of Lead Poisoning from Ammunition Sources in Terrestrial Birds

Arizona Game and Fish Department- Condors and Lead

USGS National Wildlife Health Center- Lead Poisoning

Ingestion of Spent Lead Ammunition: Implications For Wildlife & Humans

MN DNR Lead Information for Hunters

Wisconsin Department of Health Services- Lead in Venison

The Potential for Ingestion Exposure to Lead Fragments in Venison in Wisconsin

And there is much, much more from sources around the globe.

It's not a new issue and it's not going away.

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Well, hmmm sure seems to indicate we all need to get rid of our lead ammunition, unless of course one actually bothers to read it.

Of course you'd need to ignore this,

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But for the heavy consumer, pregnant women and children under 6, it is a concern.”

Dr. Pickard couldn’t define a “heavy consumer,” but for children 6 and under, and pregnant women, all lead exposure should be avoided, he says.

And ignore this as well,

The Potential for Ingestion Exposure to Lead Fragments in Venison in Wisconsin

I once read a study where the conclusion was "don't run with scissors" and "don't poke yourself in the eye with a sharp stick."

When this all came about in CA in order to protect the Condor, I thought it was false science. Still do. I look at these NPS studies with a high degree of cynicism. I file these studies right next to the USFWS lynx studies where the fur samples collected over 3-5 mountain states were determined to come from the same cat. I.e. fraudulent studies, a biologist was planting samples.

anecdotally, I notice more and more Turkey buzzards here in WY. I guarantee that there is more lead in the prairie dog fields and dead prairie dogs than in any carrion fed upon by condors in CA. High mountain leach ponds from abandoned mines would be my first choice for a source of heavy metal toxins found in these birds.
Someone has an agenda, pure and simple.

My question on the date of the x-ray was prompted solely because I recognized it. I remember seeing it or one like it years ago when it was publicized and wondered about the present timing.

It appears we are at an impasse. One side has lead fragments, the proven ability to commit demagoguery and to produce panic and the ability in modern terms "to work the media", but cannot produce a suitable corpus delicti. And the other has hundreds of years of real life experience, common sense and is able to point to the complete lack of any common knowledge of risk in this area.

One other thing - I wasn't here for it, but based on what I've seen so far, I want to extend my sincere condolences to all you great guys for what you must have put up with here when chronic wasting hit.

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Originally posted by Skinner.:
...People who eat game killed with lead bullets may have slightly higher lead levels than those who don’t, concludes a Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) study released in November.

Sure looks bad for us Lead shooters.

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...The study surveyed 738 North Dakota residents. Of those, 80 percent consumed wild game shot with lead, including deer and birds....While participant lead levels ranged from non‑detectable to 9.82 micrograms/dl, all were well below the 25 micrograms/dl “level of intervention” for adults. In fact, average participant lead levels of 1.17 micrograms/ dl were below the average American’s lead level, which is 1.60....

Woooooooooooops...., nope the study actually showed people who ate Game Killed with Lead(plus Birds) average LOWER Lead in their bodys than people who do not.

Absolutely amazing!!!!!!!!!!

So, all you folks need to go blast some game with "Lead" and get to eating to get your "Lead DOWN".

Thank you CDC for such a clear cut report.

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When this all came about in CA in order to protect the Condor, I thought it was false science. Still do. I look at these NPS studies with a high degree of cynicism.

Problem is that it's real, condors do ingest lead fragments from carcasses and gutpiles and that lead is absorbed causing lead poisoning and eventual death if not treated.

The science is there to support that, pretending it doesn't won't make it go away. That was tried in CA and those who tried that tactic failed.

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I file these studies right next to the USFWS lynx studies where the fur samples collected over 3-5 mountain states were determined to come from the same cat. I.e. fraudulent studies, a biologist was planting samples.

Interesting how those stories grow and are twisted long after they were proven false.

Verify your story for us. You'll have trouble doing so because it's untrue.

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I guarantee that there is more lead in the prairie dog fields and dead prairie dogs

And that is being researched now, problem is you're not gonna like the results.

Skinner, why do people eating this deadly assed wild game have lower lead levels than those of average Americans?? It's your posted study, please defend it, not post links to a slew of biased studies. Not hard to find those that are biased the other way in my opinion, simple fact is look around you at anyone you know who was raised on wild game, anyone alive today who ate wild game growing up most certainly ate game killed with lead bullets. How many of them have serious health issues related to excessive lead? Tell you what, why don't you continue to pretend to be one of us, pretend to be a hunter and outdoorsman but I hope like hell everyone else sees you for you for what you are, a card carrying anti-hunter spouting an agenda from the inside.

The more this is discussed here the more I am remembering from the past on it. And what that radiograph portrays is definitely not something previously unknown.

I thought I saw that x-ray before. And I have, but what was really coming back to memory were other x-rays. I finally remembered where. I have an ammunition handbook that was given me as a kid in about 1955 by one of the all time greatest exhibition shooters. It has a series of x-rays in it and says they show the penetration stages of a 30-30 bullet thru a block of heavy simulated flesh gel. It's four pictures and all show many small fragments blowing away from the bullet.

There's also a picture showing five large fragments from a 30-06 bullet removed from game.

Now, it doesn't say and I wouldn't expect it to say what the fragments are. Are they all lead; are they all copper jacket pieces; or are they all a mix of the two? In other words, some of what we call fragments can also be jacket pieces.

In any event, why in over thirty years of eating deer meat shot with lead/copper jacketed bullets have I not found any fragments at all when chewing, much the same as I do when finding shot pellets in small game? Many of the fragments like those shown above appear 0.5 millimeter or bigger which should be large enough to bite down on and feel. Obvious answer - it's not there by the time it gets to the table.

Why isn't it there? Anyone who's ever watched a skilled commercial deer processing operation would understand. They do the obvious things including cutting away all parts from around the wound channel and any damaged meat. But have you watched as they wash out the body insides? Where I have taken mine they hang them, skin them carefully, cut off the legs and use hoses to really thoroughly rinse the insides. My take on watching them do it is, it's not just a general clean up but more that they are intentionally avoiding any lead fragments remaining.

In other words I'm now thinking those in the business probably have been on top of this for a long time. Just for fun, I'm going to ask the owner of one of these shops what he thinks of this latest controversy.

And yes, I remain convinced this is not a serious public health problem. I'm also convinced there are much, much greater threats to guns and hunting that need our attention.

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Skinner, why do people eating this deadly assed wild game have lower lead levels than those of average Americans??

You'd have to read it selectively and ignore the findings that suggest the consumption of game taken with lead ammo is linked with increased blood lead levels in order to make your statement.

Adding in the hyperbole and conspiracy theories of course.

You really don't know that there aren't negative effects to this.

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Tell you what, why don't you continue to pretend to be one of us, pretend to be a hunter and outdoorsman but I hope like hell everyone else sees you for you for what you are, a card carrying anti-hunter spouting an agenda from the inside.

Don't need to pretend, I've hunted and trapped for almost 40 years now. And I've spent quite a lot of time and personal resources defending hunting and trapping, including opposing the lead ban in the condor range and preventing the bill from passing in the legislative sessions before it finally passed.

Problem with the condor/lead issue is that hunters had no data to disprove the contentions. None. And the science supporting the association between condors and lead kept building.

So the arguments against it were largely anecdotal (and conspiratorial), as we see here on this and related issues, with no real scientific foundation.

In the other thread I posed the question, "Do you think your argumentation will survive in a hearing in a legislature or in a Federal court ?"

I don't think it would, because I've already seen them fail.

Kinda like repeating the mythology of the planted lynx hair conspiracy theories when that was the subject of several Federal investigations and then went to a Congressional hearing where the allegations were shown to be untrue.

And that stung those who were repeating the story, including members of Congress.

The science keeps building on the lead issue and the findings are inconvenient.

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In any event, why in over thirty years of eating deer meat shot with lead/copper jacketed bullets have I not found any fragments at all when chewing,

Or none that were palpable, given that the lead fragments and breaks into particles too small to see or feel.

You'd have to subject the carcass of your deer and then the processed venison to radiography or CT scan to actually know whether you have lead fragments in what you're consuming.

As was found in this study,


Bullet Fragments in Deer Remains: Implications for Lead Exposure in Avian Scavengers

Bullet Fragmentation Study: Supplementary Data

And in subsequent studies by the MN DNR, the link is posted above.

So why is it difficult to believe that a copper jacketed lead cored bullet fragments upon impacting hide, flesh and bone at 2800fps ?

And that those lead fragments travel through muscle tissue and viscera.

These forums are full of reports on bullet performance on game with pics of carcasses and recovered bullets. With many recovered bullets having very low weight retention.

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One side has lead fragments, the proven ability to commit demagoguery and to produce panic and the ability in modern terms "to work the media", but cannot produce a suitable corpus delicti. And the other has hundreds of years of real life experience, common sense and is able to point to the complete lack of any common knowledge of risk in this area.

Your statement here is dishonest and lacks the 'common sense' in really examining this issue.

You seem to want a pile of human bodies that dropped dead from lead poisoning before accepting that lead poisoning is occurring.

And for the 'hundreds of years' you ignore the change in equipment, from low velocity black powder rifles firing a lead projectile that didn't fragment to what the high velocity copper jacketed bullets in common use today.

And the fact that many today eat far more venison than grandpa ever did simply because we have a Hell of a lot more deer to harvest and the ability to preserve it through freezing.

Just a few points for you to consider.

The issue isn't as simple as you'd like to present.

I have a serious problem with the "dishonest" comment.

I have been trying hard to not get personal and have given you the benefit of the doubt after taking the trouble to examine your past posts and satisfying myself that you do apparently have some genuine interest in guns and hunting. Because of that I even removed a post containing some real political zingers to keep this as non-personal as possible.

I would appreciate your trying to show me and others here a little common courtesy, if you expect this debate to continue.

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I have a serious problem with the "dishonest" comment.

OK, I'll say 'intellectually dishonest', which it is.

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Because of that I even removed a post containing some real political zingers to keep this as non-personal as possible.

Which I read prior to you deleting it and it was laughable, it proved my point that your arguments are ideological, not science based.

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I would appreciate your trying to show me and others here a little common courtesy

Which I have done, but for you and others to claim that you are doing so would be highly questionable.

Im currently compiling a list of people and organizations who conduct/promote such "studies" as a marketing target list for my new business, Byrens Bubbles..

Whatddya say Skinner, can I put you down for a wonderfull plastic bubble in which to safley spend the rest of your days? Maybe a few for your family??

Though I don't doubt that lead in game animals makes it into the prepared end product, this study at least demonstrates that it's generally a non-issue. As to the lead poisoning of condors, I also have no doubt that it occurs. The only problem I have there is exactly where the lead is coming from. They suspect some of it is coming from gut piles, etc. Since lead is a naturally occurring element on earth, I am sure there are other sources as well. Heck, toys made in China are a very good source .

Ken....